[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
And Steve Nash deserved it in the 2 years he won it.[/quote]
Well, we thought he did.
And then we saw freaking Chris Duhon and Ray Felton put up similarly-inflated stats in a D’Antoni offense…
[/quote]
…and NYK are barely in the playoff picture. Not exactly carrying their teams.
The Suns finished 1st and 2nd in Nash’s seasons.
Are you seriously comparing Nash in 2004-2006 to Felton and Duhon?
FWIW the Finals MVP’s of the last two decades look a lot better than the regular season MVP’s, as far as who on the list are also some of the greatest players ever.
MVP
2011-2012
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
Freakin Steve Nash has more MVPs than Kobe. That’s indefensible. [/quote]
And Steve Nash deserved it in the 2 years he won it.
It’s a SINGLE season award. [/quote]
No, he didn’t. Neither did Dirk the year he won it. Bryant deserved the award every one of those years, but he was fresh off his rape charge and the league couldn’t give its premier individual award to someone with so much negative media attention. Yes, Nash was the leader on the best team in the league but Bryant was single handedly putting up arena league football numbers by himself and everyone in the league - players, coaches, GM’s, ball balls, whatever - said he was the best player in the league, hands down.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
Freakin Steve Nash has more MVPs than Kobe. That’s indefensible. [/quote]
And Steve Nash deserved it in the 2 years he won it.
It’s a SINGLE season award. [/quote]
No, he didn’t. Neither did Dirk the year he won it. Bryant deserved the award every one of those years, but he was fresh off his rape charge and the league couldn’t give its premier individual award to someone with so much negative media attention. Yes, Nash was the leader on the best team in the league but Bryant was single handedly putting up arena league football numbers by himself and everyone in the league - players, coaches, GM’s, ball balls, whatever - said he was the best player in the league, hands down. [/quote]
Bullshit.
MVP on an 12th place team? LOL C’mon son. In order to be the MVP you have a decent season finish and take your team somewhere.
The Lakers were terrible in those years.
Then a 2005-2006 54-28 record with NO Joe Johnson and NO Amare Stoudemire.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
Freakin Steve Nash has more MVPs than Kobe. That’s indefensible. [/quote]
And Steve Nash deserved it in the 2 years he won it.
It’s a SINGLE season award. [/quote]
No, he didn’t. Neither did Dirk the year he won it. Bryant deserved the award every one of those years, but he was fresh off his rape charge and the league couldn’t give its premier individual award to someone with so much negative media attention. Yes, Nash was the leader on the best team in the league but Bryant was single handedly putting up arena league football numbers by himself and everyone in the league - players, coaches, GM’s, ball balls, whatever - said he was the best player in the league, hands down. [/quote]
Nash’s first award was one of the most indefensible of all time. Agreed Kobe deserves more.
Hollinger at ESPN had a good article today about how voters ROUTINELY vote for the best story… every year the criteria seems to be different and the only constant is whose story is the best. This year it’s the likeable D-Rose who is the best player on the most improved team (even though the Bulls true weapon is depth - Boozer, Noah and Deng would all be the 2nd best player in ORL).
If it’s “best player on the best team” you give it to Kobe. If it’s “most irreplaceable” you give it to Dwight (that team is lucky to be .500 if you put any other player in the entire league in his spot). If it’s simply “best player” it’s probably LBJ but room for debate.
The Bulls are the best story and Rose is their best player (and a great guy) and VERY valuable…just not more valuable than any other player in the league IMO. I really don’t think they would be that different if say Westbrook was their PG and he gets no MVP love.
.
Where are you guys streaming your games from?
Atdhenet.tv doesn’t seem to put any good games on anymore…
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
Where are you guys streaming your games from?
Atdhenet.tv doesn’t seem to put any good games on anymore…[/quote]
[quote]therajraj wrote:
The Suns finished 1st and 2nd in Nash’s seasons.
Are you seriously comparing Nash in 2004-2006 to Felton and Duhon?[/quote]
Of course not. I’m simply pointing out that a D’Antoni offense is EXTREMELY stat-friendly.
And when you consider that Nash played alongside the best forward combo in the league at the time, well, it’s not difficult to see where I’m going here…
@Raj: Thanks man.
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
The Suns finished 1st and 2nd in Nash’s seasons.
Are you seriously comparing Nash in 2004-2006 to Felton and Duhon?[/quote]
Of course not. I’m simply pointing out that a D’Antoni offense is EXTREMELY stat-friendly.
And when you consider that Nash played alongside the best forward combo in the league at the time, well, it’s not difficult to see where I’m going here…
[/quote]
You’re not giving Nash enough credit. A big reason they were the best forward combo was because of Nash. During those 2 years players around him were having career years all around him… and he was the cause.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
Freakin Steve Nash has more MVPs than Kobe. That’s indefensible. [/quote]
And Steve Nash deserved it in the 2 years he won it.
It’s a SINGLE season award. [/quote]
No, he didn’t. Neither did Dirk the year he won it. Bryant deserved the award every one of those years, but he was fresh off his rape charge and the league couldn’t give its premier individual award to someone with so much negative media attention. Yes, Nash was the leader on the best team in the league but Bryant was single handedly putting up arena league football numbers by himself and everyone in the league - players, coaches, GM’s, ball balls, whatever - said he was the best player in the league, hands down. [/quote]
Bullshit.
MVP on an 12th place team? LOL C’mon son. In order to be the MVP you have a decent season finish and take your team somewhere.
The Lakers were terrible in those years. [/quote]
Nash was playing on the deepest team in the league. Bryant was sharing the backcourt with Smush Parker, and still took that team to the playoffs while having the most dominant scoring seasons of the modern era. Steve Nash is a wholesome Canadian who never got in trouble and was leading the leagues best regular season team. His numbers are the direct result of D’Antonis system, and if I have to post his pre-Suns stats [AGAIN], I will. Bryant’s sytem stifles his numbers and he’s still the best player in the league, and was so during the years in question, but he was coming off a blackeye to the league when Stern was doing everything in his power to appeal to a wider [read: MONEY SPENDING] demographic. Bullshit nothin’.
When did the MVP award become the best player in the league award. It’s there to recognize the most important player on a team out of all the teams. Saying Kobe had record numbers in a year where the Lakers barely made the playoffs is actually discrediting him winning that award. A guy like Steve Nash was all class that lead his team to the top spot in the West. Same as Dirk. During those years Kobe was just jacking up a record number of shots and pardon me saying - was selfish. Whether he needed to be selfish is another story but that was the perception at the time. Also, you can’t give the MVP to a player on a team below top 3 (at the very least).
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
Freakin Steve Nash has more MVPs than Kobe. That’s indefensible. [/quote]
And Steve Nash deserved it in the 2 years he won it.
It’s a SINGLE season award. [/quote]
No, he didn’t. Neither did Dirk the year he won it. Bryant deserved the award every one of those years, but he was fresh off his rape charge and the league couldn’t give its premier individual award to someone with so much negative media attention. Yes, Nash was the leader on the best team in the league but Bryant was single handedly putting up arena league football numbers by himself and everyone in the league - players, coaches, GM’s, ball balls, whatever - said he was the best player in the league, hands down. [/quote]
Bullshit.
MVP on an 12th place team? LOL C’mon son. In order to be the MVP you have a decent season finish and take your team somewhere.
The Lakers were terrible in those years. [/quote]
Nash was playing on the deepest team in the league. Bryant was sharing the backcourt with Smush Parker, and still took that team to the playoffs while having the most dominant scoring seasons of the modern era. Steve Nash is a wholesome Canadian who never got in trouble and was leading the leagues best regular season team. His numbers are the direct result of D’Antonis system, and if I have to post his pre-Suns stats [AGAIN], I will. Bryant’s sytem stifles his numbers and he’s still the best player in the league, and was so during the years in question, but he was coming off a blackeye to the league when Stern was doing everything in his power to appeal to a wider [read: MONEY SPENDING] demographic. Bullshit nothin’.[/quote]
Uhhh… As I said earlier in Nash’s first MVP season (2004-2005) Kobe led the Lakers to the 12th place finish. Part of being the MVP is leading your team to at LEAST a playoffs spot. I don’t care if he put up the greatest stats of all time, if he can’t get his team to the playoffs he doesn’t deserve it. You don’t give the MVP to a player on a 12th place team. In Nash’s second MVP season Lakers finished 7th.
Secondly, it’s unfair to discredit Nash’s numbers simply because he played in a system that suited him. It was not only him putting up big numbers but he was also the cause of players around him having career years. Six of his teammates averaged career highs in 2005-2006.
Amare hasn’t topped in his number from Nash’s MVP season to date.
I doubt Boris Diaw wins most improved player not playing with Nash.
I don’t doubt Kobe’s rape charges hurt his MVP chances, but I don’t believe for a second it was the main reason he didn’t win it. Steve Nash was the reason .
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
When did the MVP award become the best player in the league award. It’s there to recognize the most important player on a team out of all the teams. Saying Kobe had record numbers in a year where the Lakers barely made the playoffs is actually discrediting him winning that award. A guy like Steve Nash was all class that lead his team to the top spot in the West. Same as Dirk. During those years Kobe was just jacking up a record number of shots and pardon me saying - was selfish. Whether he needed to be selfish is another story but that was the perception at the time. Also, you can’t give the MVP to a player on a team below top 3 (at the very least).[/quote]
This.
But I would say a top 4 finish.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
Freakin Steve Nash has more MVPs than Kobe. That’s indefensible. [/quote]
And Steve Nash deserved it in the 2 years he won it.
It’s a SINGLE season award. [/quote]
No, he didn’t. Neither did Dirk the year he won it. Bryant deserved the award every one of those years, but he was fresh off his rape charge and the league couldn’t give its premier individual award to someone with so much negative media attention. Yes, Nash was the leader on the best team in the league but Bryant was single handedly putting up arena league football numbers by himself and everyone in the league - players, coaches, GM’s, ball balls, whatever - said he was the best player in the league, hands down. [/quote]
Bullshit.
MVP on an 12th place team? LOL C’mon son. In order to be the MVP you have a decent season finish and take your team somewhere.
The Lakers were terrible in those years. [/quote]
Nash was playing on the deepest team in the league. Bryant was sharing the backcourt with Smush Parker, and still took that team to the playoffs while having the most dominant scoring seasons of the modern era. Steve Nash is a wholesome Canadian who never got in trouble and was leading the leagues best regular season team. His numbers are the direct result of D’Antonis system, and if I have to post his pre-Suns stats [AGAIN], I will. Bryant’s sytem stifles his numbers and he’s still the best player in the league, and was so during the years in question, but he was coming off a blackeye to the league when Stern was doing everything in his power to appeal to a wider [read: MONEY SPENDING] demographic. Bullshit nothin’.[/quote]
Uhhh… As I said earlier in Nash’s first MVP season (2004-2005) Kobe led the Lakers to the 12th place finish. Part of being the MVP is leading your team to at LEAST a playoffs spot. I don’t care if he put up the greatest stats of all time, if he can’t get his team to the playoffs he doesn’t deserve it. You don’t give the MVP to a player on a 12th place team. In Nash’s second MVP season Lakers finished 7th.
Secondly, it’s unfair to discredit Nash’s numbers simply because he played in a system that suited him. It was not only him putting up big numbers but he was also the cause of players around him having career years. Six of his teammates averaged career highs in 2005-2006.
Amare hasn’t topped in his number from Nash’s MVP season to date.
I doubt Boris Diaw wins most improved player not playing with Nash.
I don’t doubt Kobe’s rape charges hurt his MVP chances, but I don’t believe for a second it was the main reason he didn’t win it. Steve Nash was the reason .
[/quote]
Well, Stoudamire also had a career threatening knee injury AND eye injury after that season, so it seems that has a lot more to do with it than anything Nash did 'cause guess what? He was still playing with Nash until this season. Diaw is a versatile 3-4 who fit in perfectly with the Suns, and he was routinely coming off the bench playing point forward when Nash was taking a breather. That entire system was designed to get guys a ton of open shots and score a ton of points. Yeah, Nash was a big part of that but pretty much any competent pg with good vision could’ve done well. Look at what Felton was doing under D’Antoni: CAREER HIGHS ACROSS THE BOARD. Don’t really know how else to put it. And, if you honestly think Nash was the reason that Bryant didn’t win at least one of those MVP’s then you’re more of a homer than I thought. You’re like the Canadian Rand.
Oh, and that first Nash MVP season was the year Bryant was coming off the rape charge AND off-season surgery, which is why he was in Colorado in the first place. He took that exact same team to the playoffs the next year. You put Nash on that team and the Lakers move back to Minneapolis.