[quote]therajraj wrote:
CHA 109
LAL 89
Wow[/quote]
Charlotte for some reason OWNS the Lakers. I think the Lakers have lost 8 of the last 10 meetings against these guys. Go figure.
Well you should be happy then. Both teams are doing well.
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
You have to make a bet if you think one team can beat another to prove your true judgment?
[/quote]
No. I was calling out how confident you were in your assertions. Conclusion: not very confident.
I’m just fairly confident based on multiple factors that I’ve seen themselves play out over and over again in the post-season that I would put my money on Boston in a 7 game series. Ok, I’m 97% sure; happy? And the major caveat, as always, for either team would be a significant injury to either Boston’s big 4 or Miam’s big 3 before said meeting in the playoffs. No one can predict those factors.
You are showing your basketball age/knowledge or lack thereof with the types of arguments you are choosing. Boston had a terrible record last year and was the 4th seed and was within 4 points of winning the championship. Records mean next to nothing.
And as for having the best players on a team. That doesn’t mean squat either. I could go through NBA history and point out team after team that had one or two of the “best players” in the game that did not win playoff series or championships. It’s the best TEAMs that win in basketball.
Going with the old argument again. Haven’t we heard this for three years now? Big Z? Ha ha ha. Your arguments completely fucking suck. The Cs effectiveness isn’t about one or two offensive threats. They have distributed scoring where multiple players over multiple games will take the scoring title. Yawn, I’m getting bored.
Finally he speaks something of relevance that’s actually true but in effect makes your point weaker, not stronger. A team with better perimeter shooting as one of it’s main advantages rarely wins in the post-season against other behemoths. It’s the inside game. Always has been, always will be.
We’re not going to go with stats that can be very misleading. When it comes to playoff basketball, the interior defense and size of the Celts IS superior over the Heat and that will be the difference.
Motivation. Ha ha ha. Jordan was the most motivated person of all time and he couldn’t win for 8 seasons until he had a molded cast around him that could finally get over the hump of the Pistons, Knicks, etc. Motivation? Are you serious? Everyone has motivation in the playoffs. Next…
Anything is possible. Especially if a major injury occurs. That being said, the level of credence you and therajraj are giving to the heat based on factors of “motivation” and they have the “2 best players” in the league and dismissing the “size, defense, and rebounding” advantages the Celtics have is a bit ludicrous.
To summarize: to say one team has more motivation in the postseason over the other is laughable. Having the 2 best players on an incomplete team and trying to imply that Z, or big Z, passes for an interior center is also laughable. To discredit the factors of size, defense, and rebounding is also laughable.
This is the funniest paragraph you have written. We all know how hard of time you thinks the Celts will have IN YOUR OWN MIND. Got it. Fresher, more energy and more intense than the Celts in a post-season series? Yeah, buddy. Sure thing.
And Lebron James has been denied for 7 years. And it will be 8. Maybe not 9, but 8? Yes. That mental toughness thing? Lebron still hasn’t shown he’s got that yet. When the going gets tough, Lebron gets backpedaling.
I challenge you to pick out one post on this ENTIRE thread where I said these words: That Boston WILL WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR. You know what? You can’t. All I’ve said is that I’m confident the C’s will beat the Heat in the playoffs this year. That’s all. I think they have a very good chance to do it unfortunately. Shit man, don’t you remember? I am a Lakers fan you know.
Listen i’m not going to arguing anything further as I didn’t even want this to escalate into a debate anyways. Plus I really can’t be fucked. Boring - you called it out - I agree. I think we can agree to that, especially since it’s so far away from the playoffs still.
Anyhow i will call you out on the ‘Boston winning the championship’. You’ve now asserted in all your posts “size, defense and rebounding” wins rings. Boston in your mind from what we can gather possesses those more than any team in the league. Therefore you’re picking Bean town over San An, LA, 'errbody. Fair?
[quote]randman wrote:
I agree with you again. It will be a good series that the Celtics will win in 6; possibly 7. ;0[/quote]
Then all this arguing was pointless because one game here and one game there and it could be the other way round. I’m sorry but you’ve been making it sound like Boston will dominate Miami. No one here agrees with that.
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
I don’t care what the general season rebounding stats are. What I care about is what the rebounding stats are against each other. Yesterday was a wash in the rebounding department (and the Celts basically had a 7 man rotation because three of their bigs are out). Other than than, the Cs have significantly outrebounded the Heat. Next…
[/quote]
LMAO can you please explain this to me? Your paragraph basically adds up to “I don’t care about the stats, which say that the Heat have outrebounded the Celtics this season. Other than that, the Cs have significantly outrebounded the Heat.”
The Heat have a very good rebounding team because they rebound from almost every position. Better than the Celts this year.[/quote]
Reading comprehension FAIL. Let me spell this out to you as clearly as I can. I don’t care what Miam’s rebounding performance has looked like against the rest of the league this year so on the stats you used Miami is a better rebounding team vs. the Celtics performance against every other team this year. This stat is meaningless to me.
The stat that IS extremely important is what has been the rebounding advantage in the three games they played against EACH OTHER this year. Yesterday was a wash, they were basically even (and I have to mention again that was with Boston have a shortened rotation of 7 players with 3 of their bigs out). The other two games Boston has outrebounded them. So tell me again who has the better rebounding team skippy?[/quote]
Actually, the Heat have outrebounded Boston in 2 of their 3 games. Stat lookup fail jiffy.
I looked it up yesterday… correct me if I’m wrong but I believe what I found was Miami outrebounded Boston by 1 twice, and Boston outrebounded Miami by 3 once. So that puts them something like 120-119 in rebounds on the season.
Inconclusive at best, so I think it’s reasonable to point out the 50-game sample size (i.e. stats vs. entire league) over an inconclusive 3-game sample size. But I’m sure you’ll have some reason that’s wrong too.
[quote]Teledin wrote:
Is D-Wade’s absence in the contendership for MVP due to his time this season injured? I’m curious, having not been 100% on point with my NBA, but from what I have seen Wade’s been more impressive IMO than Lebron. Not hating on Lebron, despite how much I dislike him, he has played well MOST games.[/quote]
The general consensus is LBJ has had a bigger impact on the season as a whole than Wade… but that they will split the “Miami” vote for MVP enough that someone else (Rose, Howard being frontrunners) will win.
And I’m a fellow Bulls fan
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
You have to make a bet if you think one team can beat another to prove your true judgment?
[/quote]
No. I was calling out how confident you were in your assertions. Conclusion: not very confident.
I’m just fairly confident based on multiple factors that I’ve seen themselves play out over and over again in the post-season that I would put my money on Boston in a 7 game series. Ok, I’m 97% sure; happy? And the major caveat, as always, for either team would be a significant injury to either Boston’s big 4 or Miam’s big 3 before said meeting in the playoffs. No one can predict those factors.
You are showing your basketball age/knowledge or lack thereof with the types of arguments you are choosing. Boston had a terrible record last year and was the 4th seed and was within 4 points of winning the championship. Records mean next to nothing.
And as for having the best players on a team. That doesn’t mean squat either. I could go through NBA history and point out team after team that had one or two of the “best players” in the game that did not win playoff series or championships. It’s the best TEAMs that win in basketball.
Going with the old argument again. Haven’t we heard this for three years now? Big Z? Ha ha ha. Your arguments completely fucking suck. The Cs effectiveness isn’t about one or two offensive threats. They have distributed scoring where multiple players over multiple games will take the scoring title. Yawn, I’m getting bored.
Finally he speaks something of relevance that’s actually true but in effect makes your point weaker, not stronger. A team with better perimeter shooting as one of it’s main advantages rarely wins in the post-season against other behemoths. It’s the inside game. Always has been, always will be.
We’re not going to go with stats that can be very misleading. When it comes to playoff basketball, the interior defense and size of the Celts IS superior over the Heat and that will be the difference.
Motivation. Ha ha ha. Jordan was the most motivated person of all time and he couldn’t win for 8 seasons until he had a molded cast around him that could finally get over the hump of the Pistons, Knicks, etc. Motivation? Are you serious? Everyone has motivation in the playoffs. Next…
Anything is possible. Especially if a major injury occurs. That being said, the level of credence you and therajraj are giving to the heat based on factors of “motivation” and they have the “2 best players” in the league and dismissing the “size, defense, and rebounding” advantages the Celtics have is a bit ludicrous.
To summarize: to say one team has more motivation in the postseason over the other is laughable. Having the 2 best players on an incomplete team and trying to imply that Z, or big Z, passes for an interior center is also laughable. To discredit the factors of size, defense, and rebounding is also laughable.
This is the funniest paragraph you have written. We all know how hard of time you thinks the Celts will have IN YOUR OWN MIND. Got it. Fresher, more energy and more intense than the Celts in a post-season series? Yeah, buddy. Sure thing.
And Lebron James has been denied for 7 years. And it will be 8. Maybe not 9, but 8? Yes. That mental toughness thing? Lebron still hasn’t shown he’s got that yet. When the going gets tough, Lebron gets backpedaling.
I challenge you to pick out one post on this ENTIRE thread where I said these words: That Boston WILL WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR. You know what? You can’t. All I’ve said is that I’m confident the C’s will beat the Heat in the playoffs this year. That’s all. I think they have a very good chance to do it unfortunately. Shit man, don’t you remember? I am a Lakers fan you know.
Listen i’m not going to arguing anything further as I didn’t even want this to escalate into a debate anyways. Plus I really can’t be fucked. Boring - you called it out - I agree. I think we can agree to that, especially since it’s so far away from the playoffs still.
Anyhow i will call you out on the ‘Boston winning the championship’. You’ve now asserted in all your posts “size, defense and rebounding” wins rings. Boston in your mind from what we can gather possesses those more than any team in the league. Therefore you’re picking Bean town over San An, LA, 'errbody. Fair?
[/quote]
Go ahead and call me “out”. I still never said Boston is the only one with size, defense, and rebounding. There’s this little team in LA you may have heard of that also has those things in spades? And then there’s San Antonio. Miami? no. Not in comparison.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
I agree with you again. It will be a good series that the Celtics will win in 6; possibly 7. ;0[/quote]
Then all this arguing was pointless because one game here and one game there and it could be the other way round. I’m sorry but you’ve been making it sound like Boston will dominate Miami. No one here agrees with that.[/quote]
No. What I’m doing is calling you and therajraj out based on likely outcomes. You (and him) are giving Miami way too much credit for the likelihood they could pull off a championship this year. And I say bull-puckey. A more likely outcome based on the mental toughness, size, defense and rebounding advantage puts the Celtics and the Lakers ahead of Miami in those departments this year.
I know this is not a radical concept considering a majority of NBA fans across the country fill out these things called “online polls” on sportsnation for instance where a majority have voted the same way. Miami is a distant third here. NBA fans ain’t stupid when you take their opinion collectively. Typically they are right. I’m going with likely outcomes, not possibilities. Hell the Pacers have a “chance” to win the championship this year right? Sure they do. Is it likely? Hell no. Does Miami have a better “chance” to win it this year? Sure they do. Is it likely? No.
Unless the universe swings their way and they get a significant trade before the deadline (unlikely) or the two teams I rank above them both deal with significant injuries in the post-season to a major player (or two) and Miami doesn’t.
Likely outcomes, my friend, likely outcomes. Not possibilities, likely outcomes.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
I don’t care what the general season rebounding stats are. What I care about is what the rebounding stats are against each other. Yesterday was a wash in the rebounding department (and the Celts basically had a 7 man rotation because three of their bigs are out). Other than than, the Cs have significantly outrebounded the Heat. Next…
[/quote]
LMAO can you please explain this to me? Your paragraph basically adds up to “I don’t care about the stats, which say that the Heat have outrebounded the Celtics this season. Other than that, the Cs have significantly outrebounded the Heat.”
The Heat have a very good rebounding team because they rebound from almost every position. Better than the Celts this year.[/quote]
Reading comprehension FAIL. Let me spell this out to you as clearly as I can. I don’t care what Miam’s rebounding performance has looked like against the rest of the league this year so on the stats you used Miami is a better rebounding team vs. the Celtics performance against every other team this year. This stat is meaningless to me.
The stat that IS extremely important is what has been the rebounding advantage in the three games they played against EACH OTHER this year. Yesterday was a wash, they were basically even (and I have to mention again that was with Boston have a shortened rotation of 7 players with 3 of their bigs out). The other two games Boston has outrebounded them. So tell me again who has the better rebounding team skippy?[/quote]
Actually, the Heat have outrebounded Boston in 2 of their 3 games. Stat lookup fail jiffy.
[/quote]
That’s a manipulative stat fail on your part. If you consider a 1 rebound advantage in Sunday’s game as statistically significant your on drugs. That’s why I called it a wash. And Boston did out-rebound them in the other two games. I don’t know where you get your stats from.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
I looked it up yesterday… correct me if I’m wrong but I believe what I found was Miami outrebounded Boston by 1 twice, and Boston outrebounded Miami by 3 once. So that puts them something like 120-119 in rebounds on the season.
Inconclusive at best, so I think it’s reasonable to point out the 50-game sample size (i.e. stats vs. entire league) over an inconclusive 3-game sample size. But I’m sure you’ll have some reason that’s wrong too.[/quote]
After relooking I think I googled one game wrong. The rebounds are actually tied for the season between the two teams.
Game 1 - Boston - 42 rebounds, Miami - 39
Game 2 - Boston - 35, Miami - 37
Game 3 - Boston - 40, Miami - 41 (3 bigs out for Boston during this game)
That being said, when I take post-season into play; my point still stands. Boston will have the advantage in rebounding as well as the other factors when it’s basically a half court game because of their size and stifling D in the half court; never mind mental toughness. Let’s stop talking about possibilities here and go with likely outcomes. And the likely outcome definitely favors the Celtics.
Lets just wait for the playoffs and see what happens.
People were saying the Heat will always be Wade’s team and Lebron would be taking a supportive role - Lebron is still #1
People were saying Lebron would never win an MVP now that he plays along Wade and Bosh - Now he’s arguably the front runner
People have said the current Laker team will 3 peat - we’ll see
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
I looked it up yesterday… correct me if I’m wrong but I believe what I found was Miami outrebounded Boston by 1 twice, and Boston outrebounded Miami by 3 once. So that puts them something like 120-119 in rebounds on the season.
Inconclusive at best, so I think it’s reasonable to point out the 50-game sample size (i.e. stats vs. entire league) over an inconclusive 3-game sample size. But I’m sure you’ll have some reason that’s wrong too.[/quote]
After relooking I think I googled one game wrong. The rebounds are actually tied for the season between the two teams.
Game 1 - Boston - 42 rebounds, Miami - 39
Game 2 - Boston - 35, Miami - 37
Game 3 - Boston - 40, Miami - 41 (3 bigs out for Boston during this game)
That being said, when I take post-season into play; my point still stands. Boston will have the advantage in rebounding as well as the other factors when it’s basically a half court game because of their size and stifling D in the half court; never mind mental toughness. Let’s stop talking about possibilities here and go with likely outcomes. And the likely outcome definitely favors the Celtics.[/quote]
Hahahah after calling me an idiot twice for a stat YOU got wrong, you then say it doesn’t matter. Discrepancies aside, my general point was there’s no way you can point to an advantage here for either side.
I don’t know how you can possibly say definitively that “Boston will have the advantage in rebounding” when no stat backs that up. I just think you are wrong about this. D-Wade and Bron are such good rebounders for their positions that it makes up for a lack of rebounding from the C slot.
I think it will be close to a wash in the series. The season stats vs. the league favor MIA but Perkins has been injured and replaced by lesser rebounders (The O’Neal brothers), which could offset this.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Lets just wait for the playoffs and see what happens.
People were saying the Heat will always be Wade’s team and Lebron would be taking a supportive role - Lebron is still #1
People were saying Lebron would never win an MVP now that he plays along Wade and Bosh - Now he’s arguably the front runner
People have said the current Laker team will 3 peat - we’ll see
[/quote]
There’s no Fing way the writers vote for him with the way he’s dissed the media… which will be sad if he’s deserving.
I personally think that there’s an argument for about 4 guys right now, but voter fatigue + resentment will all but kill LBJ’s chances unless he does something pretty spectacular.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
I looked it up yesterday… correct me if I’m wrong but I believe what I found was Miami outrebounded Boston by 1 twice, and Boston outrebounded Miami by 3 once. So that puts them something like 120-119 in rebounds on the season.
Inconclusive at best, so I think it’s reasonable to point out the 50-game sample size (i.e. stats vs. entire league) over an inconclusive 3-game sample size. But I’m sure you’ll have some reason that’s wrong too.[/quote]
After relooking I think I googled one game wrong. The rebounds are actually tied for the season between the two teams.
Game 1 - Boston - 42 rebounds, Miami - 39
Game 2 - Boston - 35, Miami - 37
Game 3 - Boston - 40, Miami - 41 (3 bigs out for Boston during this game)
That being said, when I take post-season into play; my point still stands. Boston will have the advantage in rebounding as well as the other factors when it’s basically a half court game because of their size and stifling D in the half court; never mind mental toughness. Let’s stop talking about possibilities here and go with likely outcomes. And the likely outcome definitely favors the Celtics.[/quote]
Hahahah after calling me an idiot twice for a stat YOU got wrong, you then say it doesn’t matter. Discrepancies aside, my general point was there’s no way you can point to an advantage here for either side.
I don’t know how you can possibly say definitively that “Boston will have the advantage in rebounding” when no stat backs that up. I just think you are wrong about this. D-Wade and Bron are such good rebounders for their positions that it makes up for a lack of rebounding from the C slot.
I think it will be close to a wash in the series. The season stats vs. the league favor MIA but Perkins has been injured and replaced by lesser rebounders (The O’Neal brothers), which could offset this.[/quote]
We’ll see how wrong I am come playoffs. How can I possibly back it up? Boston’s size, defensive intensity, mental toughness and playoff experience together as a team. And I’m sure they will win the rebounding battle because of those factors particularly in the playoffs. Willing to bet on that stat and the eventual winner being Boston.
Face it, you keep arguing Miami’s case until you are blue in the face but you are in the minority. Plain and simple.
[quote]randman wrote:
Go ahead and call me “out”. I still never said Boston is the only one with size, defense, and rebounding. There’s this little team in LA you may have heard of that also has those things in spades? And then there’s San Antonio. Miami? no. Not in comparison.[/quote]
Nah g hear me out, I said Boston has more of those criteria than anyone else. Boston has more size than LA, better D and is better on the boards. San An is undersized, their center is 6’7. Therefore according to yourself the Celtics must be favorites.
I guess we’ll agree to disagree. I think Boston and LA are pretty evenly matched in the size, defense and rebounding arenas regardless of what the stats say in the regular season. By the time they meet in the playoffs, if they meet in the playoffs, they’ll be pretty evenly matched.
I still think there’s a good chance for another Lakers-Celtics rematch. San Antonio suffers in size just a bit when compared to the other two but is a great defensive team. I do think the Lakers can beat San Antonio in a 7 game series with San Antonio having home-court.
Here’s my honest position. I’m afraid that a Lakers-Celtics rematch would come down to who has home-court advantage if they meet in the Finals. And I fear that’s going to be the Celtics so, unfortunately, I give them the edge over my beloved Lakers. So I guess I am giving the Celtics a slight edge over the Lakers but it’s based on home-court advantage and not on any other factor (if everything plays out like I think it may). I hope I’m wrong. But there you go. That’s what I think.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]Teledin wrote:
Is D-Wade’s absence in the contendership for MVP due to his time this season injured? I’m curious, having not been 100% on point with my NBA, but from what I have seen Wade’s been more impressive IMO than Lebron. Not hating on Lebron, despite how much I dislike him, he has played well MOST games.[/quote]
The general consensus is LBJ has had a bigger impact on the season as a whole than Wade… but that they will split the “Miami” vote for MVP enough that someone else (Rose, Howard being frontrunners) will win.
And I’m a fellow Bulls fan[/quote]
Ah I see. Thanks for that.
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
I looked it up yesterday… correct me if I’m wrong but I believe what I found was Miami outrebounded Boston by 1 twice, and Boston outrebounded Miami by 3 once. So that puts them something like 120-119 in rebounds on the season.
Inconclusive at best, so I think it’s reasonable to point out the 50-game sample size (i.e. stats vs. entire league) over an inconclusive 3-game sample size. But I’m sure you’ll have some reason that’s wrong too.[/quote]
After relooking I think I googled one game wrong. The rebounds are actually tied for the season between the two teams.
Game 1 - Boston - 42 rebounds, Miami - 39
Game 2 - Boston - 35, Miami - 37
Game 3 - Boston - 40, Miami - 41 (3 bigs out for Boston during this game)
That being said, when I take post-season into play; my point still stands. Boston will have the advantage in rebounding as well as the other factors when it’s basically a half court game because of their size and stifling D in the half court; never mind mental toughness. Let’s stop talking about possibilities here and go with likely outcomes. And the likely outcome definitely favors the Celtics.[/quote]
Hahahah after calling me an idiot twice for a stat YOU got wrong, you then say it doesn’t matter. Discrepancies aside, my general point was there’s no way you can point to an advantage here for either side.
I don’t know how you can possibly say definitively that “Boston will have the advantage in rebounding” when no stat backs that up. I just think you are wrong about this. D-Wade and Bron are such good rebounders for their positions that it makes up for a lack of rebounding from the C slot.
I think it will be close to a wash in the series. The season stats vs. the league favor MIA but Perkins has been injured and replaced by lesser rebounders (The O’Neal brothers), which could offset this.[/quote]
We’ll see how wrong I am come playoffs. How can I possibly back it up? Boston’s size, defensive intensity, mental toughness and playoff experience together as a team. And I’m sure they will win the rebounding battle because of those factors particularly in the playoffs. Willing to bet on that stat and the eventual winner being Boston.
Face it, you keep arguing Miami’s case until you are blue in the face but you are in the minority. Plain and simple.[/quote]
Again, I’m not saying Miami will win. I’m just constantly arguing the “middle line” whenever someone takes an extreme view point (i.e., that the celtics will “definitely” win). I think the Celtics will PROBABLY win but I would not be surprised to see Miami pull it out in a close series.
I think Miami’s team rebounding and defense are being vastly overlooked this year, not just by you, but by everyone. Just because they don’t have a true center, people think they can’t rebound, but that’s just not the case. LBJ/Wade are spectacular rebounders for their positions to make up for the C position, Miller is very good for his position, and Bosh is adequate for a PF. Put it all together and they’re well above average.
And their speed on help defense is really impressive.
I’d pick BOS in 7 but not be surprised if Boston won in 5…or if Miami won in 6.
You need context my friend. I think the middle line does favor Boston and it sounds like you do as well. I may have come of as extreme but it started on page 7 on this thread when getnitdone wrote:
“Aren’t you guys having a hard time picturing Boston beating the Heat in a 7 game series. No matter what I can’t see ANY team beating a Miami team that play’s coherently and with intensity. If Miami has home court throughout the East playoffs I really wouldn’t want to be any other team in the East.”
He’s having a “hard time” picturing Boston beating the Heat in a 7 game series?1? To me, this was an extreme view and in an extreme minority. Anyone in their right mind that knows NBA playoff basketball would not make this proclamation. Maybe they would say I think Miami “may” win. But to say I have a hard time seeing Boston even beat the Heat is ridiculous and discounts this very dangerous Boston team. It sounded like he was saying that Boston hardly has a chance which is ludicrous. That’s what started this 3 page debate. I was calling out that crap.
You just admitted you think that Boston has “a good chance” to beat the Heat. That’s my opinion and that’s the opinion of a majority of NBA fans.