I don’t know if any of you watched them beat the Thunder last night, but the Warriors are starting to put some things together this year and Monta is hands down one of the most entertaining players in the game.
Obviously I’m biased but I think Monta should be an all star, and if we can add a power center the Warriors will be able to do some serious things on the court.
I give credit to Keith Smart as well, he has done a fantastic job in his first year, and hopefully it only gets better from here.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
And yet you put so much stock over 3 regular season games between the Heat and Celtics. We’ll see how good Dwight does down the stretch. They came a few wins away from a championship a couple seasons ago, I don’t see why they couldn’t go deep again.
[/quote]
I put a huge amount of stock into the obvious advantages the Celtics have over the Heat in the areas of defense, rebounding and size. You know, the areas that win teams championships. And I don’t put as much stock into the first two wins of the season as I do today because
a) the Heat really wanted to win today considering the first two losses AND that they have been playing more cohesively and still couldn’t get it done
b) this was much closer of an ugly, slowdown playoff game than the first two games and the Celts still won
c) the Celts had three of their backup bigs out and still won and
d) the Celts have won 3 straight and it does have some bearing considering all the factors I just addressed on the strong likelihood that the Celtics will have similar success in the post season.
As for Dwight Howard, I’ll maintain that he can not carry any team to the championship on his own shoulders. He had a great game today however. And as for getting “close” a couple of years ago, the Lakers team beat them with size, defense and rebounding in 5 games to win the championship. LOL.[/quote]
The game came down to the wire and finished with Miami getting an open 3 point shot that they missed. Not exactly a thorough beating. You’d think all that advantage in “size, defense and rebounding” category would garner a much larger margin of victory. The teams were separated by only one rebound as well. The winners could basically be interchangeable.
And I consider getting to the finals and being 3 wins away from championship “close.”
[/quote]
So are you actually arguing the Heat’s case of winning a 7 game series against the Celtics? Because in basketball (unlike almost any other sport) the best team almost always wins barring injury to a major star.
Are you saying that the obvious advantages of size, defense, and rebounding the Celtics have over the Heat will not be enough to beat them in a 7 game series in the post-season? Care to bet on this? I’ll bet you and Getnitdone on this series in a heartbeat.
Both of you need to be put your posting and opinions on the line here if your going to keep arguing with the Celtics obvious advantages. I still have not heard any compelling “analysis” from either of you what the Heat’s advantages are over the Celtics Instead you both are challenging my anlysis of why the Celts will beat the Heat.[/quote]
A) The Heat have been a better rebounding team than the Celtics this year by a pretty significant margin (51.5% vs. 49.6% of total rebounds grabbed in games). You forget how good Wade and LBJ are are rebounding from their positions (and the Heat have won the rebounding battle in 2 of 3 games vs. Celtics this year)
B) Size - Bosh, Z, Dampier is a pretty tall frontcourt. LBJ is a big SF.
C) Celtics are 2nd in the league in points per posession allowed. Miami is 3rd.
I personally like the Celtics to win a 7-game series but I do not think they have a huge advantage in any particular category. Two of their wins over the Heat came in the first 9 games when the Heat were still nowhere near the team they are now, and the other win was a missed Mike Miller 3pter away from overtime.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
But that aside, I didn’t see a whole lot of Celtic dominance today. If the Heat had gotten anything from their bench they would’ve won. It felt like Eddie House and Mike Miller missed a billion open shots.[/quote]
Paul Pierce was hurting with a wrist and ankle injury and didn’t hit any of his shots as a result; his own words: I was grinding it out. Also, the Celtics have like 5 players out and three bigs.
Miami really wanted revenge this game, had lost the prior two games, Lebron carried them and still couldn’t hit a clutch free throw shot when it counted; their support couldn’t hit open jumpers when it counted and you take this as a positive for how “close” Miami made it???
Man, I’ll tell ya, fans SEE what they WANT to see. [/quote]
Stop making this out like it was some huge statement games
If your point is that Boston didn’t also want to win this game really bad, you are just flat wrong.
It was IN BOSTON. This is not a trivial advantage.
LBJ missed a free throw does not mean he isn’t clutch. Do we forget his 28 straight points vs. DET or the buzzer-beater vs. ORL in the playoffs? That’s enough proof for me that he can do it.
I personally htink Boston would win a 7-game series but for none of the reasons you keep mentioning. It’s more that the Heat get a lot of their points on fast breaks, which are very hard to come by against a team like Boston in the playoffs.
But in past playoffs Wade and LBJ have both had their way with BOS at times, plus the Heat are a pretty excellent defensive team themselves. It would be foolish to say it “can’t” happen.
[quote]randman wrote:
Dwight has been playing for many years now. My main criticism of him is that he’s not progressed offensively that much since he started in the NBA and thus will be hard pressed to lead a team to a championshiop. This is a common criticism that many TV sports analysts have also spoken about. Thus he has a “good” game today and you give the impression that he’s now arrived because he shredded the Laker’s defense.
How is this scenario even closely related to a Heat team that just got together THIS year; are outmatched in the size and defense department AND lost all 3 games to the Celtics this year?
Again, seriously? How are you making this connection to these two scenarios that are not even closely related?
My head hurts…[/quote]
Actually, I was very skeptical of everyone saying Dwight’s post game had improved this year (they say that every year)… but I’ve watched him a few times now and I have to say, he’s actually getting pretty crafty around the basket. To the point where I would be a little afraid of him in a playoff game.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’ll bet you $20 randman that the Heat will beat the Celts in the playoffs if they meet.[/quote]
I think you were being a real prick yesterday with how you were taking my statements WAY out of context. That being said, I’ll give you a break and let you make this decision if you want to take the bet if/when they actually do meet in the playoffs.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
You have to make a bet if you think one team can beat another to prove your true judgment?
[/quote]
No. I was calling out how confident you were in your assertions. Conclusion: not very confident.
I’m just fairly confident based on multiple factors that I’ve seen themselves play out over and over again in the post-season that I would put my money on Boston in a 7 game series. Ok, I’m 97% sure; happy? And the major caveat, as always, for either team would be a significant injury to either Boston’s big 4 or Miam’s big 3 before said meeting in the playoffs. No one can predict those factors.
You are showing your basketball age/knowledge or lack thereof with the types of arguments you are choosing. Boston had a terrible record last year and was the 4th seed and was within 4 points of winning the championship. Records mean next to nothing.
And as for having the best players on a team. That doesn’t mean squat either. I could go through NBA history and point out team after team that had one or two of the “best players” in the game that did not win playoff series or championships. It’s the best TEAMs that win in basketball.
Going with the old argument again. Haven’t we heard this for three years now? Big Z? Ha ha ha. Your arguments completely fucking suck. The Cs effectiveness isn’t about one or two offensive threats. They have distributed scoring where multiple players over multiple games will take the scoring title. Yawn, I’m getting bored.
Finally he speaks something of relevance that’s actually true but in effect makes your point weaker, not stronger. A team with better perimeter shooting as one of it’s main advantages rarely wins in the post-season against other behemoths. It’s the inside game. Always has been, always will be.
We’re not going to go with stats that can be very misleading. When it comes to playoff basketball, the interior defense and size of the Celts IS superior over the Heat and that will be the difference.
Motivation. Ha ha ha. Jordan was the most motivated person of all time and he couldn’t win for 8 seasons until he had a molded cast around him that could finally get over the hump of the Pistons, Knicks, etc. Motivation? Are you serious? Everyone has motivation in the playoffs. Next…
Anything is possible. Especially if a major injury occurs. That being said, the level of credence you and therajraj are giving to the heat based on factors of “motivation” and they have the “2 best players” in the league and dismissing the “size, defense, and rebounding” advantages the Celtics have is a bit ludicrous.
To summarize: to say one team has more motivation in the postseason over the other is laughable. Having the 2 best players on an incomplete team and trying to imply that Z, or big Z, passes for an interior center is also laughable. To discredit the factors of size, defense, and rebounding is also laughable.
This is the funniest paragraph you have written. We all know how hard of time you thinks the Celts will have IN YOUR OWN MIND. Got it. Fresher, more energy and more intense than the Celts in a post-season series? Yeah, buddy. Sure thing.
And Lebron James has been denied for 7 years. And it will be 8. Maybe not 9, but 8? Yes. That mental toughness thing? Lebron still hasn’t shown he’s got that yet. When the going gets tough, Lebron gets backpedaling.
I challenge you to pick out one post on this ENTIRE thread where I said these words: That Boston WILL WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR. You know what? You can’t. All I’ve said is that I’m confident the C’s will beat the Heat in the playoffs this year. That’s all. I think they have a very good chance to do it unfortunately. Shit man, don’t you remember? I am a Lakers fan you know.
[quote]
That’s fine but I think you’d convince me more that I’m wrong to think what I’m vibing by analyzing the team to team matchup instead of saying “size and D wins rings (not arguing that).”[/quote]
It certainly sounds like that’s what you’ve been saying. If you haven’t been, my mistake.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Actually, I was very skeptical of everyone saying Dwight’s post game had improved this year (they say that every year)… but I’ve watched him a few times now and I have to say, he’s actually getting pretty crafty around the basket. To the point where I would be a little afraid of him in a playoff game.
[/quote]
He’s improving. I don’t know yet if I would call him scary on the offensive end. We’ll see.
[quote]trayhawk wrote:
fan related stuff because I’m from Miami[/quote]
All I’ll say is that you are in the minority in your own state even. Poll was taken yesterday across the nation that asked who would win the eastern conference playoffs: Miami, Boston, or a couple of others. 70% of respondents said Boston, 19% said Miami, and lower %'s for the others.
Even within Florida 44% said Boston and 36% said the Heat. Even your own state is giving the odds to Boston. I kinda wish Miami would win the East so we could see the Celtics come on their home-court and beat them there. Boston didn’t have home-court throughout the Eastern Conference playoffs last year and it didn’t matter one bit.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
A) The Heat have been a better rebounding team than the Celtics this year by a pretty significant margin (51.5% vs. 49.6% of total rebounds grabbed in games). You forget how good Wade and LBJ are are rebounding from their positions (and the Heat have won the rebounding battle in 2 of 3 games vs. Celtics this year)
[/quote]
I don’t care what the general season rebounding stats are. What I care about is what the rebounding stats are against each other. Yesterday was a wash in the rebounding department (and the Celts basically had a 7 man rotation because three of their bigs are out). Other than than, the Cs have significantly outrebounded the Heat. Next…
Due seriously, you keep making undercutting your own credibility when you try to position Z as a tall frontcourt guy that actually alters shots, is a big defensive presence, is physical, etc. This is the biggest running joke that you keep throwing this stat around and it makes you sound completely ill-informed. Please stop throwing Z in your Miami “size” arguments. It’s really really lame.
No one ever said Miami’s defense sucks. What I continue to say though is that the Celts have the advantage over the Heat in a) mental toughness b) size, c) rebounding and d) defense regardless of the margin of any of those factors.
We agree on something.
[quote]
Two of their wins over the Heat came in the first 9 games when the Heat were still nowhere near the team they are now, and the other win was a missed Mike Miller 3pter away from overtime.
It’ll be a good series.[/quote]
I agree with you again. It will be a good series that the Celtics will win in 6; possibly 7. ;0
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Stop making this out like it was some huge statement games
If your point is that Boston didn’t also want to win this game really bad, you are just flat wrong.
[/quote]
Who said otherwise? But it’s an interesting factor that the Celts were down to a 7 man rotation and this motivation factor that keeps getting thrown out there for Miami still wasn’t enough to beat them.
I agree. However, Boston can win on the road and proved it last year throughout the eastern conference playoffs as the 4th seed.
Aahh. Someone caught WHY I threw that out there. Ha ha ha. Yes, it definitely was a DIG against Lebron and all of his fanboys. I’ll throw out my well worn out line for those who were guilty of slapping GOAT labels on this guy: Do you think Jordan or Bryant would have missed either of those free throws in that situation? I just couldn’t help it.
Proof that he has had a couple of transcendent games in the playoffs? How about when he quit in the last few games of the Celtics series? What about that mental toughness factor? No one would say he isn’t extraordinarily talented. I do continue to question his mental toughness and leadership IQ however. He may eventually get there but I really haven’t seen it yet.
Alright skippy. I’m starting to lose my patience. Did I really have to spell this out??? Do you know WHY it slows down in the post-season??? Because the defensive intensity picks up quite a bit. And I’ve been saying that the Celtics have the advantage in this department. So tell me, skippy, did I really need to type out these words verbatim for you to understand that I’m basically saying the same thing? My God…
[quote]
But in past playoffs Wade and LBJ have both had their way with BOS at times, plus the Heat are a pretty excellent defensive team themselves. It would be foolish to say it “can’t” happen.[/quote]
Actually Wade has historically struggled against the Cs. If you watched the game yesterday on national television, they were discussing this point exactly and putting up his not-so-good statistics. LeBron definitely has his way on occasion but the Celts can live with him going 1 on 5. That’s what they want to happen.
And I never said it’ “can’t” happen. I’m basically saying it’s highly unlikely given all the advantages I’ve laid out ad nauseum.
I don’t care what the general season rebounding stats are. What I care about is what the rebounding stats are against each other. Yesterday was a wash in the rebounding department (and the Celts basically had a 7 man rotation because three of their bigs are out). Other than than, the Cs have significantly outrebounded the Heat. Next…
[/quote]
LMAO can you please explain this to me? Your paragraph basically adds up to “I don’t care about the stats, which say that the Heat have outrebounded the Celtics this season. Other than that, the Cs have significantly outrebounded the Heat.”
The Heat have a very good rebounding team because they rebound from almost every position. Better than the Celts this year.
Due seriously, you keep making undercutting your own credibility when you try to position Z as a tall frontcourt guy that actually alters shots, is a big defensive presence, is physical, etc. This is the biggest running joke that you keep throwing this stat around and it makes you sound completely ill-informed. Please stop throwing Z in your Miami “size” arguments. It’s really really lame.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? This was my first time posting about Miami vs. Boston and certainly my first post mentioning Zydrunas. Are you confusing me with someone else?
I wasn’t talking about shot-blocking and defensive presence, or “skill.” All you said was SIZE, and the heat have some tall bigs (although Z is blocking 1 shot per game in only 17minutes).
They got a couple dudes who can box out Perkins (it’s not like you really need a big defensive presence vs. Perkins either). That’s all.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Stop making this out like it was some huge statement games
If your point is that Boston didn’t also want to win this game really bad, you are just flat wrong.
[/quote]
Who said otherwise? But it’s an interesting factor that the Celts were down to a 7 man rotation and this motivation factor that keeps getting thrown out there for Miami still wasn’t enough to beat them.
I agree. However, Boston can win on the road and proved it last year throughout the eastern conference playoffs as the 4th seed.
Aahh. Someone caught WHY I threw that out there. Ha ha ha. Yes, it definitely was a DIG against Lebron and all of his fanboys. I’ll throw out my well worn out line for those who were guilty of slapping GOAT labels on this guy: Do you think Jordan or Bryant would have missed either of those free throws in that situation? I just couldn’t help it.
Proof that he has had a couple of transcendent games in the playoffs? How about when he quit in the last few games of the Celtics series? What about that mental toughness factor? No one would say he isn’t extraordinarily talented. I do continue to question his mental toughness and leadership IQ however. He may eventually get there but I really haven’t seen it yet.
Alright skippy. I’m starting to lose my patience. Did I really have to spell this out??? Do you know WHY it slows down in the post-season??? Because the defensive intensity picks up quite a bit. And I’ve been saying that the Celtics have the advantage in this department. So tell me, skippy, did I really need to type out these words verbatim for you to understand that I’m basically saying the same thing? My God…
Really, I make two freaking posts and you’re calling me “skippy” and telling me I keep “throwing out some stat” about Zydrunas’ effectiveness? Please show me one other post on this entire thread where I talked about him or mentioned him in the same breath as any stats.
I don’t care what the general season rebounding stats are. What I care about is what the rebounding stats are against each other. Yesterday was a wash in the rebounding department (and the Celts basically had a 7 man rotation because three of their bigs are out). Other than than, the Cs have significantly outrebounded the Heat. Next…
[/quote]
LMAO can you please explain this to me? Your paragraph basically adds up to “I don’t care about the stats, which say that the Heat have outrebounded the Celtics this season. Other than that, the Cs have significantly outrebounded the Heat.”
The Heat have a very good rebounding team because they rebound from almost every position. Better than the Celts this year.[/quote]
Reading comprehension FAIL. Let me spell this out to you as clearly as I can. I don’t care what Miam’s rebounding performance has looked like against the rest of the league this year so on the stats you used Miami is a better rebounding team vs. the Celtics performance against every other team this year. This stat is meaningless to me.
The stat that IS extremely important is what has been the rebounding advantage in the three games they played against EACH OTHER this year. Yesterday was a wash, they were basically even (and I have to mention again that was with Boston have a shortened rotation of 7 players with 3 of their bigs out). The other two games Boston has outrebounded them. So tell me again who has the better rebounding team skippy?
Really, I make two freaking posts and you’re calling me “skippy” and telling me I keep “throwing out some stat” about Zydrunas’ effectiveness? Please show me one other post on this entire thread where I talked about him or mentioned him in the same breath as any stats.
I swear you just make shit up sometimes.
[/quote]
Was that not you (if memory serves me correctly) that was talking about Z’s size as an influential factor for Cleveland in last year’s posts and me calling you out then too regarding Z’s size being a factor? If not, my apologies. If so, you are still using this lame argument that Z’s size has ANY influence on anyone down low. He’s a 7 foot immobile 17 foot jump shooter. That’s it.
Is D-Wade’s absence in the contendership for MVP due to his time this season injured? I’m curious, having not been 100% on point with my NBA, but from what I have seen Wade’s been more impressive IMO than Lebron. Not hating on Lebron, despite how much I dislike him, he has played well MOST games.
