^therajraj is making my head really hurt tonight. Thanks for the help. LOL!
[quote]randman wrote:
Dwight has been playing for many years now. My main criticism of him is that he’s not progressed offensively that much since he started in the NBA and thus will be hard pressed to lead a team to a championshiop. This is a common criticism that many TV sports analysts have also spoken about. Thus he has a “good” game today and you give the impression that he’s now arrived because he shredded the Laker’s defense.
How is this scenario even closely related to a Heat team that just got together THIS year; are outmatched in the size and defense department AND lost all 3 games to the Celtics this year?
Again, seriously? How are you making this connection to these two scenarios that are not even closely related?
My head hurts…[/quote]
Dwight may not have reached his offensive potential but he has proven he can dominate. He has put BIG numbers in the playoffs and I think with Hedo back the Magic have a good chance of getting back to the Finals. Today’s game proved if they get their shit together, they can make a deep playoff run.
Once again, I only compared them because you told me I shouldn’t put much stock in 1 regular season game, and I replied with that you shouldn’t put much stock in 3 regular season games.
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
But that aside, I didn’t see a whole lot of Celtic dominance today. If the Heat had gotten anything from their bench they would’ve won. It felt like Eddie House and Mike Miller missed a billion open shots.[/quote]
Paul Pierce was hurting with a wrist and ankle injury and didn’t hit any of his shots as a result; his own words: I was grinding it out. Also, the Celtics have like 5 players out and three bigs.
Miami really wanted revenge this game, had lost the prior two games, Lebron carried them and still couldn’t hit a clutch free throw shot when it counted; their support couldn’t hit open jumpers when it counted and you take this as a positive for how “close” Miami made it???
Man, I’ll tell ya, fans SEE what they WANT to see. [/quote]
I don’t give a shit about how Paul Pierce was feeling. If he’s on the floor, it means he’s well enough to play. End of story.
Eddie House has been playing great recently, I think he just had an off game. I didn’t really see it as the Celtics dominant defence. I am undecided on who would win a 7 game series.
Half of Eddie House’s and Mike Miller’s shots were open. Just an off game more than a credit to the Celt’s D
It was brutal that Mike Miller missed the open shot, but how brutal was it that he got a wide open look in crunch time?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
Dwight has been playing for many years now. My main criticism of him is that he’s not progressed offensively that much since he started in the NBA and thus will be hard pressed to lead a team to a championshiop. This is a common criticism that many TV sports analysts have also spoken about. Thus he has a “good” game today and you give the impression that he’s now arrived because he shredded the Laker’s defense.
How is this scenario even closely related to a Heat team that just got together THIS year; are outmatched in the size and defense department AND lost all 3 games to the Celtics this year?
Again, seriously? How are you making this connection to these two scenarios that are not even closely related?
My head hurts…[/quote]
Dwight may not have reached his offensive potential but he has proven he can dominate. He has put BIG numbers in the playoffs and I think with Hedo back the Magic have a good chance of getting back to the Finals. Today’s game proved if they get their shit together, they can make a deep playoff run.
Once again, I only compared them because you told me I shouldn’t put much stock in 1 regular season game, and I replied with that you shouldn’t put much stock in 3 regular season games. [/quote]
I think we have a reading comprehension issue. Dude, you are driving me nuts. Did you see and READ what I wrote right about your post?
Again, I’m taking data about Dwight Howard based on MANY YEARS (like many others) and you commented about ONE regular season game like it was proof of his arrived offensive dominance.
I’m commenting about OBVIOUS matchup problems between a Celtics team that has been together for YEARS and has won a championship and almost another one last year because of their mental toughness, rebounding, size, and defense. Compare this to a Miami team that was just cobbled together THIS year without a true center that is outmatched in these departments and has lost all three games this year.
This is not a 1 regular season game vs. a 3 regular season game comparison that you keep trying to make it out to be. There is absolutely no logic in comparing the two and for the life of me I can not understand how are you still trying to make this dubious connection.
I swear if you try and reduce this difference of opinion on two different subjects down to the statement of “I was just responding to you, Randman, of not putting much stock into 1 regular season game when you, Randman, put stock into 3 regular season games” I’m going to reach through cyberspace and snuff out your Internet connection! Stop appearing dense therajraj, you are better than this.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Half of Eddie House’s and Mike Miller’s shots were open. Just an off game more than a credit to the Celt’s D[/quote]
Since you are trying to ignore the logic and history of the NBA post season of size and defense being dominant factors and argue about tactical issues regarding this game today, and because I’m sick of arguing with you, put your money where your mouth is.
If you are so sure Miami can break over the hump and beat the Celtics in the post-season then bet me. If you are not willing to do that, then just stop with the rhetoric and act like Miami has a chance in hell to beat the Celts in the postseason because Eddie House and Mike Miller missed an open shot today.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
It was brutal that Mike Miller missed the open shot, but how brutal was it that he got a wide open look in crunch time?[/quote]
You are talking about one FUCKING play in a regular season game as an argument for what therajraj? Dude, your level of dense-ness is starting to go through the roof. I’m starting to think you are just doing this because you just feel like arguing. There is absolutely no logic in anything you are saying.
lol right and you referring to Lebron missing a free throw down the stretch isn’t just one play.
I think Miami has a good chance against Boston, and I think Dwight+Hedo can potentially carry the Magic to the Finals. Don’t agree? That’s fine.
I wrote a shit ton more than Lebron missing a free throw down the stretch of this game today as to the reasons the Celtics’ advantages over Miami in the postseason and you know it. You just picked out this one comment because you were seriously being exposed for you lack of logic on the connections you were trying to make between two completely different statements (i.e. Dwight Howard’s offensive dominance being enough to carry the Magic vs. Miami’s chances against the Celtics in the postseason).
All you wrote is that you think Miami can win in the post season and Eddie House and Mike Miller missed open free throws today like it is some kind of omen on Miami’s chances in the post season. You totally got backed into a corner and called out on your lack of logic in anything you have been writing.
How would we even bet anyways?
[quote]randman wrote:
I wrote a shit ton more than Lebron missing a free throw down the stretch of this game today as to the reasons the Celtics’ advantages over Miami in the postseason and you know it. You just picked out this one comment because you were seriously being exposed for you lack of logic on the connections you were trying to make between two completely different statements (i.e. Dwight Howard’s offensive dominance being enough to carry the Magic vs. Miami’s chances against the Celtics in the postseason).
All you wrote is that you think Miami can win in the post season and Eddie House and Mike Miller missed open free throws today like it is some kind of omen on Miami’s chances in the post season. You totally got backed into a corner and called out on your lack of logic in anything you have been writing.[/quote]
No I was talking about this game specifically on why I thought it showed signs that Miami has a chance against Boston. That’s why I brought up specific plays.
There’s a lot of different bets we could make. But you know in your heart you don’t want to make any bet because you are not willing to stand behind the Heat’s chances whereas I am willing to stand behind the Celtics chances.
Instead you are spending your time trying to pick apart what I’m saying with straw-man arguments. I’m not doing this back and forth with you anymore. Put your money where you mouth is. If not, I don’t want hear about Miami’s chances from you.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
I wrote a shit ton more than Lebron missing a free throw down the stretch of this game today as to the reasons the Celtics’ advantages over Miami in the postseason and you know it. You just picked out this one comment because you were seriously being exposed for you lack of logic on the connections you were trying to make between two completely different statements (i.e. Dwight Howard’s offensive dominance being enough to carry the Magic vs. Miami’s chances against the Celtics in the postseason).
All you wrote is that you think Miami can win in the post season and Eddie House and Mike Miller missed open free throws today like it is some kind of omen on Miami’s chances in the post season. You totally got backed into a corner and called out on your lack of logic in anything you have been writing.[/quote]
No I was talking about this game specifically on why I thought it showed signs that Miami has a chance against Boston. That’s why I brought up specific plays.
[/quote]
So you are basing Miami’s chances on one regular season game like Dwight Howard’s game today? Ok, that’s it. I’m outta here. It’s been a good night. See you later. I’ve officially lost my marbles now… ;0
"This is not a 1 regular season game vs. a 3 regular season game comparison that you keep trying to make it out to be. "
the posting of the link gave me the impression most of your opinion on why the Celts couldn’t beat the Heat was because of how 3 season series games played out. INITIALLY.
That’s why I made the comparison…
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]randman wrote:
I wrote a shit ton more than Lebron missing a free throw down the stretch of this game today as to the reasons the Celtics’ advantages over Miami in the postseason and you know it. You just picked out this one comment because you were seriously being exposed for you lack of logic on the connections you were trying to make between two completely different statements (i.e. Dwight Howard’s offensive dominance being enough to carry the Magic vs. Miami’s chances against the Celtics in the postseason).
All you wrote is that you think Miami can win in the post season and Eddie House and Mike Miller missed open free throws today like it is some kind of omen on Miami’s chances in the post season. You totally got backed into a corner and called out on your lack of logic in anything you have been writing.[/quote]
No I was talking about this game specifically on why I thought it showed signs that Miami has a chance against Boston. That’s why I brought up specific plays.
[/quote]
So you are basing Miami’s chances on one regular season game like Dwight Howard’s game today? Ok, that’s it. I’m outta here. It’s been a good night. See you later. I’ve officially lost my marbles now… ;0[/quote]
… I THOUGHT you were basing Miami’s chances one the regular season series INITIALLY. So I did the same with Dwight Howard’s game today.
I’ll bet you $20 randman that the Heat will beat the Celts in the playoffs if they meet.
1 - I’ll take that bet too rajraj, though I’d rather make it an even $100. At least $50
2 - And since this got buried on the last page:
Regarding the whole MIA vs BOS debate…
Ummm, what debate?? Anyone who’s watched enough late-season pro hoops knows that those late rounds are knock down, drag out, halfcourt games where every possession matters. It’s in those rounds where disciplined execution (ie BOS) wins out over the athleticism edge (MIA), year in and year out. Nevermind that BOS is mentally tougher than MIA as well.
Assuming both squads are healthy MIA has zero chance of beating BOS in a best-of-seven, not this year anyway…
You have to make a bet if you think one team can beat another to prove your true judgment?
To say Boston can beat Miami is a fair point and you can argue all you want to prove that. But to act with such confidence and even arrogance that Boston will definitely without ANY doubt beat Miami is nothing short of evidence of bias. Not only do the two teams have near identical records (with Miami possibly becoming the no.1 seed) but the supposedly one sided underdog, Miami has two/three of the best players in basketball.
Boston beats Miami in size, no doubt but most of their bigs are old. Boston has bigs like KG, Big Baby, Shaq, Jermaine O’Neal, Perkins, and the Turkish dude while Miami has Big Z, Bosh and Anthony. Only two of those players for the Cs are serious offensive threats while most are known for their hustle and D.
Fortunately for Miami their entire roster can shoot from over 13 feet away. Now I agree the Celtics have a major advantage on the boards but their defense isn’t that much better than Miami’s. Miami has one of the best Ds in the league. Similarly both teams have playoff experience and while the Celtics probably have more “mental toughness” - whatever that means - it is offset by Miami’s motivation.
Listen, I’m not saying anyone is wrong here but what I am trying to get across is that IT IS possible for Miami to beat Boston and that it’s not ludicrous. I personally think Miami could win and have a hard time imagining the Celtics beating them. For the millionth time I think they’ll be fresher, have more energy, be more intense and showcase a Lebron James that will not be denied.
EDIT: randman what I don’t like about your argument is that you’re basically insinuating Boston will win the championship this year. That’s fine but I think you’d convince me more that I’m wrong to think what I’m vibing by analyzing the team to team matchup instead of saying “size and D wins rings (not arguing that).”
Beinga a post-jordan era rejuvinated NBA fan - almost solely b/c of Lebron - [I sort of just fell on this thread - in passing. Thne saw that there are some intelligent and legitimate points made here here - albeit admidst some typical forum fighting. So I’ve read on.
I was at a pre-season game (wade was out) as a b-day gift to finally see lebron play live and that incohesive, lack of a “core” attack that was present in the preseason continued through the first few months especialy the opening night in boston. The warrior-like mental toughness that the celtics possess - not to mention 5 offensive lineman rotating the post I just couldn’t see the heat ever gelling - to use a cliche - quickly enough to match the celtics size, rebounding, depth, and grit.
But after watching more and more of the HEAT play, - especially an absolutely dominant defensive and offensive performance in LA a few sundays ago - I’m starting to think it really could happen this year.
It’s a damn good argument - truly - as you just wonder about the age of the celtics catching up to them while faced with two of the most dominant players in the game in the their prime.
Bosh looks like a different player these last few months - pissed off - and driven and becoming much more effective. Lebron, I really think is embracing the villian role and to mesh so quickly with this team one might argue this is one of his best seasons yet. And jesus, it’s one damn free throw - the dude has been an underrated clutch player these last few years almost almost leading or near the top in 4th quarter points - and they would not have been in a position to win sunday’s game without his offensive tenacity.
I’m not sure I understand the hate on wade - that guy is amazing on the drive, pick and roll( think back to LA game), and a better outside shooter than lebron right now. Plus he can be a shut down defender.
But the celtics, man, they are so deep and so damn big - and age - sure it’s a factor but their big three are professionals and show the hell up in the playoffs regardless of how their regular season ended (BTW no one got pissed when they all hooked up in 08??-maybe slightly passed their prime was the reason but they won the damn title).
Rondo is just a freakin’ problem if you’re a heat fan like me…I mean the guy has just elevated his game and fearlessness to a new level…And without an inside presence (until they get Haslem back as bosh rarely plays with is back to to the rim) its tough to contend on the glass, second-chance points, etc.
But today’s game was unlike the first two - the heat looked nothing like they did in the those meetings contests - though their sloppy passing was an issue. Their was flow, movement, and guys looked like they had a better understanind of their offensive positioning.
And while I know the stats read that Miami is one of the top 3 point shooting teams in the league - miller needs to get fully healthy and along with jones/house absolutely have to be more consistent in knocking down outside shots when wade or LBJ drives the lane or gets doubled…their shots were just off today - it happens …but it can’t happen to often in a 7 game series or they’re in trouble
I’d put my money on…the heat…in 7 but only if they win the east outright with home court advantage