Tareload - Should I back off a bit to get Hemo under 50? It’s at 50.6 which my doctor just shrugged off a bit saying I could have been dehydrated.
Exactly! Great clarification there.
@tareload I have a question about the effectiveness of injecting testosterone suspension every day. This was a strategy I used the last 10 days leading up to and including the contest day. I felt that it added a hardness appearance without the water retention of the longer lasting esters.
If I injected 100mg of testosterone suspension at 10am:
- How long before it started the absorption phase?
- How long was it to complete the absorption phase?
- How long would it take to eliminate 90% (or so) of the testosterone?
- Of the 24 hours, how many hours was there no appreciable muscular benefit of the last injection?
Anyone’s input would be appreciated, though it is all history now.
I did this, and so did some training partners, decades ago. Weightlifting, not bodybuilding and like you, close to competitions. Based on our experiences, I can say it hits you in about 15 minutes and it was extremely noticeable. Good for about five hours. No labs, of course, those cost money, which could be better spent elsewhere…
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I meant it every week. Ten years ago, maybe every two weeks. Now, I think there are so many guys going to TRT clinics and underground gym guys that it is weekly. I know some GPs who want no part of TRT any longer and will just refer to TRT clinics. Some who will treat use the new rx (patented) products. The TRT practices seem to be exploding and many use 1mL/week dosing. Makes me wonder if it was 150mg/mL the dose would be 150mg instead of 200mg.
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Closest thing with well measured profiles in humans is Natesto / testosterone nasal gel:
There is some animal data with TNE which shows quick release but then a bimodal release based on particle dissolution/absorption then elimination. Yes, I remember a lot of people injecting TNE before morning workout in the 90s.
Graph above should help answer your questions.
How long before it started the absorption phase?
Immediate with no ester attachment
How long was it to complete the absorption phase?
Cmax @ ~ 1hr
How long would it take to eliminate 90% (or so) of the testosterone?
~ 4hr
Of the 24 hours, how many hours was there no appreciable muscular benefit of the last injection?
Good question. Agreed with @highpull.
Please provide a table of TT levels and time after injection for your protocols along with injection dose/frequency. I am having trouble parsing your data above. You are injecting Test Cyp?
Because a peak of 650, while “normal”, could mean a trough of around 300. If he were pinning Every day, he’d probably feel better with a t level consistently at 650. If someone is on testosterone, why not get to the high end of “normal”, if everything else is ok in bloodwork?
I’d rather not even be on trt, if I just feel “ok”.
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I have always felt “okay” unless I was sick.
I started TRT because my total testosterone was about 270 ng/mL. I still feel “okay”, I mean as well as being 73 years old can expect to feel okay.
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Didn’t he say his blood was drawn prior to his next shot.
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Maybe someone can tell me how quality of life and function differs from being at 650 or 800 to 900, as if such changes within the normal range are even discernible. I highly doubt someone will feel anything even if they were in the 400s for a measly day or two.
I believe many tamper with dosages simply for some sort of edge or “optimization”. This is why I’ve jokingly said there is TRT and there is “bionic man/cyborg TRT”. Perhaps @blshaw knows what I mean.
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I doubt its discernible from what I’ve seen. I went from very low T straight to high levels and I was all of a sudden the bionic man as you would say. After about a month I started seeing drastic changes in energy, mood, and muscle mass. This is coming from a guy that had already been body building for almost 20 years, at that point, so monumental changes were no longer happening.
Now… a couple guys I know, against my advice, have normal T levels and jumped on TRT. They figured that getting an extra 300ng/dl was gonna make a big difference. Wrong. I told them not to and then they had the gumption to ask why my results were so much better. Well, I had a medicinal need for starters. I’m not riding a high horse because that eventually led me to run several blasts. I no longer do that but I figured since my hormones were already screwed why not experiment a little before I got too old.
Edit: Also, FWIW, I’ve been on 120mg/wk, 140mg/wk, and 160mg/wk for months long period as a TRT protocol. Never could tell a difference. There are guys on here that swear they notice every injection and protocol change down to the mg. I don’t buy it, but who am I to say otherwise.
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I’d recommend routine (annual) Echocardiograms as well to be on the look out for morphological changes (also fibrosis) that may take time (2-5 years) to occur. Bloodwork + heart surveillance.
I gotta ask, what doctors can ethically reason why they give eugonadal men TRT? I will not even refer anyone to my doc if they say, “can I talk to your doctor?,” if they do not prove to me they’re hypogonadal.
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We don’t know his Free T or SHBG numbers.
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We don’t. However as I’ve said numerous times, I’m convinced many men, perhaps not him, simply tamper with doses for “optimization,” or, as Eyedentist said numerous times, seek more and more medicine until their desired outcomes (which can be any physical or me mental effect sought, including euphoric feeling and hypersexualization, abnormal muscular gain) are gotten.
Hence my term Cyborg/transhumanist/bionic man TRT.
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I think there is some truth to that.
No one can tell you that. However, some report life changing improvements with what some would call minimal increases. But, a guy at 650 going on test coming back at 900 is spending at least some time much higher, unless dosing daily. So there’s the peak.
I know, I hear it all the time. It would be cool to do a study with dose changes, and guys not knowing the dose, guys who know the dose, and guys told the wrong dose, both high and low. Would cost a fortune though.
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Interested to know what is ethical. Let’s use Quest free testosterone range (35-155). I’ll assume putting a guy on who is below 35 is fine. Where would you draw the line and cross over from ethical to unethical? What is proof of hypogonadism?
36? 50? 60? 100?
Sorry guys, another dumb question here.
Is it necessary to have your free T tested, or is calculation valid enough to justify not having it tested?
No. He said,
“ Lab was drawn the day after pinning so peak is my guess. Pin Wednesday and Sunday.”