[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I couldn’t agree more with CS. Don’t let your enthusiasm override your good sense. Don’t hurt yourself.[/quote]
But…but…but all the cool kids have done 20-rep squats. I need to fit in. 
Seriously though, I’m with you on the over-enthusiastic thing. I do need to keep an eye on the bigger picture, and the long run, sometimes.
Looks like I’ll be sleeping on the idea, and see what I come up with in the a.m.
[quote]Charles Staley wrote:
My friend:
20-rep deads are not a smart plan for ANYONE, especially someone who’s had “minor” back surgery. Assuming you haven’t hurt yourself yet, I’d suggest reconsidering your program…
[/quote]
Colucci, you sound like a pretty level headed dude so I’ll just say this: I’ve done 20 rep squats as taken from Strossen’s book. I couldn’t imagine doing that many deads in that fashion. Best of luck to you, but I would DEFINATELY listen to the man quoted above. Just my two cents. -Aaron
Be a man Colucci dont drop this program cause a few big heaed Yodas say to LOL
ROFLMAO
Just messing with you. I have to say I agree as well. I mean hell I pulled 20 rep DL on monday but I have to say thats my first pull over 5 reps in months well aside from a warm up with just the bar and a few lbs.
I think CS and the others are right in the payback vs injury relation just not leaning enough in your direction. Maybe do as they say nail the heavier DL’s then if need be then do front squats for reps as an accessory I know they kick my tail after a dl session even with a very submaximal load.
What ever you decide try and bring this same passion and drive to the more intellegent program
Best of luck,
Phill
Man I love the Edit button. 
Alright team, here’s the deal. I thought long and hard on it, and was planning on a newly revamped workout Friday night. But, the whole day was eaten up by some Pinkeye drama with my gal’s oldest son (he might have had it, he might not have, we didn’t know, went to the doc. Blah, blah, blah. Moral of the story: he did, he got antibiotics, the end.) So, my Friday disappeared before I could grab a workout. But I went at it first thing Saturday:
Warmup: 3 min. kickboxing, deadlift 2x3, 2x1 (45, 135, 225, 250)
Deadlift 4x5 (250, 250, 250, 250)
Fairly hard sets, felt good doing them, even better when they were done. No lightheadness, which is always a plus. I got a wicked pec cramp on the last rep of the 4th set. For a minute, I thought I pulled something, which would’ve sucked (all my uninsured brethren can relate). But it went away quick enough and was fine afterwards.
Standing military press 4x6 (95, 115, 125, 135)
Hang-cleaned the bar once, then did all the presses. Not bad overall. I was able to keep them fairly strict, with minimal help from the legs. Part of me wants to try these old-school military style, with heels touching. Maybe.
Overhead extension 4x8 (50, 60, 70, 80)
Just to clarify, this is what I’m doing, when I refer to these:
Probably my all-time favorite triceps exercise. I haven’t done them in I-don’t-know-how-long, but they felt awesome. Not to failure, but the last set was just about a rep away.
It’s a pretty quick workout, about 35 minutes or so, so that was a nice change of pace.
I’ll be grabbing tonight’s workout later on. I forgot to weigh myself today. Last week, I checked first thing Wednesday morning, after the a.m. bathroom trip. I was 209. Very unusual, since I’ve hovered around 215-ish for the longest time. I attribute it to just spending the last 2 weeks moving, and a crazy schedule. Should be straightened out now.
So, yeah, that’s that. Thank you all for the input in suggesting the routine tweaks. The new official plan (unless Cressey or someone comes by and talks me out of it ;), 20 heavy reps of deads, 3 times a week. We’ll see what happens after 6 weeks. See ya.
Sounded great until you got to the “I’m gonna do deads three times a week” part. Does anyone with some good strength or PL background wanna pop-off about that part being a bad idea?
I’ve heard it is, but cannot quote chaper and verse why. I thought even competing PLs stayed away from that much frequency with DLs.
I know from my own personal that too much DL action is bound to show during a high-rep set of squats.
Mr. Staley? Anyone?
I guess my questions/comments are directed at Mr. Staley. I get that for optimal perfomance on the DL you want to keep your volume high and your reps low, but are you saying that high rep DL’s have no value at all?
The reason I ask is that I when I started to work on the DL, I did light weights and high reps with strick form. I did this to learn the DL well and learn to control the DL under fatigue with out having to much volume. I the result was my back got jacked. It really tickened up from that experience. Now, I haven’t done them in a long time, but I still am rather fond of them for that reason.
So I guess I am asking if high-rep deads are bad, or thier application in this situation was not ideal?
To augment pat’s question: How high is high? How high is too high?
Pat: How many reps were you doing that thickened up your LB so well?
Speaking for myself, my form is only as good as my concentration. My concentration is more likely to lapse on 8x3 than on 1x20.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
I guess my questions/comments are directed at Mr. Staley. I get that for optimal perfomance on the DL you want to keep your volume high and your reps low, but are you saying that high rep DL’s have no value at all?
The reason I ask is that I when I started to work on the DL, I did light weights and high reps with strick form. I did this to learn the DL well and learn to control the DL under fatigue with out having to much volume. I the result was my back got jacked. It really tickened up from that experience. Now, I haven’t done them in a long time, but I still am rather fond of them for that reason.
So I guess I am asking if high-rep deads are bad, or thier application in this situation was not ideal?[/quote]
There is a big difference between deadlifting your 20 rep max and deadlifting your 10 rep max 20 times. The risk comes from doing forced reps with an exercise which can hurt your back if done incorrectly.
[quote]simon-hecubus wrote:
To augment pat’s question: How high is high? How high is too high?
Pat: How many reps were you doing that thickened up your LB so well?
Speaking for myself, my form is only as good as my concentration. My concentration is more likely to lapse on 8x3 than on 1x20. [/quote]
Yes, I should clarify. The weight was much lighter. I started at 15 reps buy 95 lbs. Got up to around 20 - 25 reps with about 135 lbs. I wasn’t popping blood vessels and hemroids by any stretch. I guess why I liked it is that it burned is all the right places. Also added a great deal a thickness to my entire back. Hell, I made add those in again at some point.
It’s pretty good cardio too, if you are in to such a thing.
[quote]summa wrote:
There is a big difference between deadlifting your 20 rep max and deadlifting your 10 rep max 20 times. The risk comes from doing forced reps with an exercise which can hurt your back if done incorrectly.
[/quote]
Yes, that is correct, and I did them way lighter. My quesion is, does high-rep DL’s have any value. That’s the clarification I am looking for. I think so based on my own experience; judging from a bodybuilding perspective not a powerlifting one.
Howdy.
I was hoping I wouldn’t fall behind in updating this here, but I did. So I took a tip which I read from another member’s log, and I changed this page to my default home page on my web browser. Now, whenever I go online, this is the first page I see. Clever, eh?
Anyway…
Monday:
Warmup - 3 min, kickboxing. Deadlift 2x5, 1x2, 1x1 (45, 135, 225, 250)
Deadlift 4x5 (250, 250, 255, 255)
Getting tricky. The rested a little bit more between reps on the 255. Still no real problems with the chalked-up grip.
1-arm DB row 4x6 (60, 80, 85, 90)
Tried using chalk on the last 2 sets. Helped some. Used a 2-point stance (not staggered like a lunge) and bent/leaned on the rack. Neutral grip, pulled to the ribs.
BB curl 4x8 (65, 75, 85, 85)
Kept a slow-ish, steady tempo for most reps. The last few reps on the last set politely asked for some help from the rest of the body, so it chipped in.
My upper back, all across the shoulder girdle, is starting to feel the most of it. Like a constantly tight feeling, just a bit sore. I’m quite sure it’s not from rounding, just keepin gthe shoulders back. I’ll probably pick up a copy of Robertson/Hartman’s Inside-Out Warm-up, to see how I can loosen things up.
Also, next week I may bring in something else for the lower body, maybe some kind of lunge (I F’ing hate lunges.) My glutes and hams are getting thrashed, no doubt, but it feels like I could handle a little something more.
I’m glad this whole thing could stir up a little conversation with everyone. I’ll be grabbing the next workout later tonight. See ya.
[quote]Colucci wrote:
Howdy.
I was hoping I wouldn’t fall behind in updating this here, but I did. So I took a tip which I read from another member’s log, and I changed this page to my default home page on my web browser. Now, whenever I go online, this is the first page I see. Clever, eh?
Anyway…
Monday:
Warmup - 3 min, kickboxing. Deadlift 2x5, 1x2, 1x1 (45, 135, 225, 250)
Deadlift 4x5 (250, 250, 255, 255)
Getting tricky. The rested a little bit more between reps on the 255. Still no real problems with the chalked-up grip.
1-arm DB row 4x6 (60, 80, 85, 90)
Tried using chalk on the last 2 sets. Helped some. Used a 2-point stance (not staggered like a lunge) and bent/leaned on the rack. Neutral grip, pulled to the ribs.
BB curl 4x8 (65, 75, 85, 85)
Kept a slow-ish, steady tempo for most reps. The last few reps on the last set politely asked for some help from the rest of the body, so it chipped in.
My upper back, all across the shoulder girdle, is starting to feel the most of it. Like a constantly tight feeling, just a bit sore. I’m quite sure it’s not from rounding, just keepin gthe shoulders back. I’ll probably pick up a copy of Robertson/Hartman’s Inside-Out Warm-up, to see how I can loosen things up.
Also, next week I may bring in something else for the lower body, maybe some kind of lunge (I F’ing hate lunges.) My glutes and hams are getting thrashed, no doubt, but it feels like I could handle a little something more.
I’m glad this whole thing could stir up a little conversation with everyone. I’ll be grabbing the next workout later tonight. See ya.[/quote]
I do not think shoulder rounding is a bad thing, in fact it’s part of what makes the DL such a great movement. Bringing your shoulders tight and straitening your back is part of the movement. Anybody who manages to keep the back perfectely strait and shoulders back are probably deadlifting 10 lb dumbells. DL’s are a simple execise to learn and and difficult one to master. Besides I have heard it argued that when performing the DL the back should round and well as the shoulders, challenging the lifter to bring them back as part of the exercise. I would tend to aggree if you are focusing on it as a back execise.
I’ve never seen a competition Dl where the lifter maintained a hard arch (or any arch for that matter).
From the floor to 3/4 of lockout, the back is slightly rounded and the shoulders are pulled forward.
PS, during my ME pull days, I’d occasionally pull 315x20 conventional without letting the bar go (staggered grip).
I remember getting tunnel vision immediately afer while leaning on the leg press (that’s all it’s good for, right?)
Never got injured but I also did it once per month tops. Not 2-3 times per week.
What I just started is this…
Mon & Fri
IronMind Hip Belt squats 1x20
Pullovers 1x20
Military press 2x12
Bent rows 2x12
Dips 3x10
RDL 1x15
Calf raise with db hanging from waist 1x25
Wed.
Back Squat 1x20
same as above but skip RDL
I RDL twice per week 1x15, back squat once 1x20 and use the hip belt squat twice per week. This seems to save fatigue in my lumbar region since the hip belt does not stress the back.