1g of Protein Per Pound of Bodyweight...

Nutrition
101

[quote]humanjhawkins wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
And for the record, try 1.5-2 grams per lb… Unless you are morbidly obese, then lower as necessary so your cals won’t get too high (after reducing carbs first).[/quote]

Respectfully Ceph, even pure whey protein has 5 cal/gram. The guy is talking about trying to maintain strength while losing weight. If he eats 570 to 760 grams of protein per day, he will be taking in 2850 to 3800 calories from the protein alone. Add minimal carbs and fat to that, and there is no way he will lose weight.

If you want to maintain strength while losing weight, you can’t eat like a powerlifter. You have to eat like a body builder in a cutting phase.
[/quote]

That’s why I said “try 500 grams for starters if you want to weigh 320 lbs”.
I also said “lower as necessary if the calories get too high” or something like that. But first and foremost you’d replace carb sources with veggies like broccoli and/or cut them out completely, so I don’t see the issue here.

A bodybuilder in a cutting phase… Okay, there are genetic freaks who can eat 1 gram per lb and keep their strength and size or even grow, and then there’s everybody else… A lot of bodybuilders (at least those over 200 pounds) eat around 1.5-2 grams per lb (consciously or not… Many eat steaks or chicken plus shakes etc all day long… What do you think they end up with? Less than a gram per pound?) whether cutting or bulking.

The big difference is the amount of carbs/fats usually to increase or lower calories… And then the specific manipulation crap you can do the week up to your contest.

If you have a major amount of muscle mass and you start cutting by halving your protein intake, then good night. You’re shooting your recovery to shit even more than usual when cutting then.

102

[quote]OklahomaHoss wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]OklahomaHoss wrote:

In the beginning, I asked a simple question. Is the 1g per pound of bodyweight a good rule of thumb or not.
[/quote]

For whom?

[/quote]

Me
[/quote]

Kind of depends on how much muscle you’re carrying and how badly you want to keep or even increase strength…

As I said, try ~500 grams at first, keep carbs low and fats medium… Or a direct carb-cycling diet like the one posted in Shelby’s article on here, but after trying those I found that the protein intake there was too low for me… I like being able to make progress without too many complications. Could just up it, of course, as Shelby himself says that the diet is meant to be adjusted depending on the trainee, or so I remember.
Low protein intake for me = takes a long time to gain an appreciable amount of strength, or I end up spinning my wheels… Of course overall cals matter here as well, but just increasing carbs if protein is too low simply makes me gain more fat.

From reading your log I’d say that you have a lot of ground to cover in the strength department… The stronger you are at your weight, the leaner you are likely going to be, and your numbers are still way too low even for a 320 lb guy at your height, which you want to eventually end up as after your diet.

So, you just have to decide: If you want to lose the weight fast, then a more extreme diet and cardio program will do that, but you probably won’t make much progress in the weight room, or even get weaker after a time… Dunno about loose skin either.

Otherwise, I think you could make progress just fine while leaning out with the suggestions I gave you in my previous post(s) and eventually get down to 320, with some more muscle to boot.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention this before: Add some supp. fiber to your diet, like Psyllium Seed Husk (there’s a commercial brand around, but I forgot the name), benefiber (not sure what they are using) etc… Perfect for shakes.

I like to get about half of my protein intake from shakes (too hard to eat 500+ grams via solid food for me),
which means some 2-3 big shakes per day, around 75 grams up to a 100 (depends) of protein per shake (and yes, there is no arbitrary “32g limit” you can absorb per session, that is completely made up crap) plus fiber so I won’t end up with gas/bloating/indigestion" and enough water in it… Plus some carb or fat source.

Getting in lots of protein or being on a low-carb diet without additional fiber is probably going to give you gas etc.

103

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]humanjhawkins wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
And for the record, try 1.5-2 grams per lb… Unless you are morbidly obese, then lower as necessary so your cals won’t get too high (after reducing carbs first).[/quote]

Respectfully Ceph, even pure whey protein has 5 cal/gram. The guy is talking about trying to maintain strength while losing weight. If he eats 570 to 760 grams of protein per day, he will be taking in 2850 to 3800 calories from the protein alone. Add minimal carbs and fat to that, and there is no way he will lose weight.

If you want to maintain strength while losing weight, you can’t eat like a powerlifter. You have to eat like a body builder in a cutting phase.
[/quote]

Really? I doubt my calories are under 3,000cals a day when dieting and I lose weight. If this guy is as “muscular” as he keeps claiming, then he should see similar.

but then…if he is exaggerating and is actually way fatter than he wants us to know (which is likely since he is SO afraid to post a picture), then you would be right.

For the record, my protein intake has rarely gone over about 350-400gr a day so in essence I do not really disagree with you.[/quote]

He didn’t see my “try 500 grams if you want to weigh 320 lb” recommendation I guess.
Of course I wouldn’t tell some guy with over 60 pounds to lose that he should be eating 700 grams of protein or anything like that… Hell, I don’t think any drug free trainee needs that… But 450-550 at 300+ lbs is entirely reasonable as far as I’m concerned.

I’m a bit surprised though… With all the steak you eat/used to eat plus your shakes, I expected your intake to be higher (or to have been higher when you were around 300 lbs). Still, it’s not like we can be compared to a 300lb coleman who is much leaner at that weight, so it works out as far as I’m concerned.

I don’t really care much for giving specific numerical recommendations, but sometimes you have to give people one just so they have some rough idea of what one usually eats at that size (and to get strong enough).

A couple of days ago in the gym some little guy (who has been there for like 7 years, but still weighs 160) started talking to me while I was busy rowing… Said something like “man, I go to the gym 3 days a week now and I still get sore”. He asked me if I got sore, I said no… Unless under very specific conditions (stretch exercise, volume very high, new exercise or one I haven’t done in ages… Or when I eat too little).
He couldn’t believe it (apart from being an individual thing, who cares anyway?), and I told him “maybe you need to eat more?”.

The look I got was the most hilarious thing I’ve ever seen. As if he’d just been shot and can neither believe nor comprehend what has happened.
This little guy there has been trying to get big for 7 or more years, making something like 10 lbs of bw progress, total… Probably by accident. It never occured to him that he had to eat to get bigger… Jeez…

Talked to him about diet, and he’s like “but I eat a lot, and I eat a lot of protein… I eat scrambled eggs for breakfast and a steak every third day, and sometimes I eat chicken…”

He couldn’t believe it when I told him what I roughly used to eat back when I was his size and trying to get up to 200 lbs in my first year of training.

So sometimes giving someone a rough numerical goal isn’t so bad, especially if that person simply doesn’t know much about nutrition and how much to eat just yet.

Some are naturals at grasping all the concepts and others need a lot of help and specifics…

104

[quote]rhythmically wrote:
What percentage bodyfat are you?[/quote]

I honestly don’t know. But if I had to guess, it’s probably in the 20% range.

I’m not a waddling, wheezing, jabba the hut turd that can barely walk to his car. I’m fit enough that I can go to the gym, bang out a hard leg workout and then go on about my day like everyone else. I’ve just got a gut. But because I’m six six, the pounds are up there.

105

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:
What percentage bodyfat are you?[/quote]

This question is irrelevant unless he has gotten it tested via DEXA scan. Anything else is simply a guess, possibly an educated one. What I mean is, without a picture, the number is pointless[/quote]

Well, here’s a picture. I think this will work.

2nd pic from the right, top row, in the black jacket.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&q=corey+Griffith&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

106

[quote]OklahomaHoss wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:
What percentage bodyfat are you?[/quote]

I honestly don’t know. But if I had to guess, it’s probably in the 20% range.

I’m not a waddling, wheezing, jabba the hut turd that can barely walk to his car. I’m fit enough that I can go to the gym, bang out a hard leg workout and then go on about my day like everyone else. I’ve just got a gut. But because I’m six six, the pounds are up there. [/quote]

You drink beer regularly, perhaps?

If so, try cutting that out for your cut…

107

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]OklahomaHoss wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:
What percentage bodyfat are you?[/quote]

I honestly don’t know. But if I had to guess, it’s probably in the 20% range.

I’m not a waddling, wheezing, jabba the hut turd that can barely walk to his car. I’m fit enough that I can go to the gym, bang out a hard leg workout and then go on about my day like everyone else. I’ve just got a gut. But because I’m six six, the pounds are up there. [/quote]

You drink beer regularly, perhaps?

If so, try cutting that out for your cut…
[/quote]

You know, actually I dont drink. Nor do I smoke. And I eat pretty healthy as well. I just LOVE to eat. The problem is that aside from lifting, I’m pretty sedentary. My job is sedentary (I’m at a computer all day) and my life away from work is sedentary (I play computer games and go to the movies) but we are steadily doing more and more physical activity lately, as we know that if I want to do well in strongman, I have to be at least a little bit fit, aerobically speaking, as well as being strong.

108

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:
What percentage bodyfat are you?[/quote]

This question is irrelevant unless he has gotten it tested via DEXA scan. Anything else is simply a guess, possibly an educated one. What I mean is, without a picture, the number is pointless[/quote]

Its far from pointless, if his bodyfat is roughly in the high 30s compared to in the region of 10-12% it would make a huge difference to the macro nutrient profile in his diet.

109

[quote]rhythmically wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:
What percentage bodyfat are you?[/quote]

This question is irrelevant unless he has gotten it tested via DEXA scan. Anything else is simply a guess, possibly an educated one. What I mean is, without a picture, the number is pointless[/quote]

Its far from pointless, if his bodyfat is roughly in the high 30s compared to in the region of 10-12% it would make a huge difference to the macro nutrient profile in his diet.[/quote]

???

You have some reason to think this guy is anywhere near 12% body fat?

No, his specific number does NOT matter if, for one he won’t post pictures showing his body at all, and two, he tells us he needs to lose 80lbs.

There is going to be an error with most traditional ways of measuring body fat, especially those bio-impedance scales.

Most of these people are likely being held back by the knowledge of their “number” than there are those making outstanding physical progress because of it.

110

[quote]OklahomaHoss wrote:

Hell, I’ve actually been referred to as (and this is no joke) “the dumbest member of all time” because I workout a little differently than anyone else, and defended that fact.
[/quote]

Are you referring to me? I wrote heavy duty sounds like the worst training method of all time, but I never wrote you were the dumbest member of all time. Unless someone else in that thread wrote that, but I don’t recall that.

OK Hoss, I’m going to give it to you straight (as by now you should realize I usually do). I think you have a lot more weight to lose than you think. If you were truly in the 20% range of body fat, you would be a pretty ripped 330 pounds after weight loss and you’d belong on stage somewhere dwarfing Johnnie Jackson.

I understand you don’t want to log on to T-Nation and be treated as a complete fat ass or whatever, but you won’t be able to get the fat loss advice you NEED unless people are more familiar with your particular situation.

111

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:
What percentage bodyfat are you?[/quote]

This question is irrelevant unless he has gotten it tested via DEXA scan. Anything else is simply a guess, possibly an educated one. What I mean is, without a picture, the number is pointless[/quote]

Its far from pointless, if his bodyfat is roughly in the high 30s compared to in the region of 10-12% it would make a huge difference to the macro nutrient profile in his diet.[/quote]

???

You have some reason to think this guy is anywhere near 12% body fat?

No, his specific number does NOT matter if, for one he won’t post pictures showing his body at all, and two, he tells us he needs to lose 80lbs.

There is going to be an error with most traditional ways of measuring body fat, especially those bio-impedance scales.

Most of these people are likely being held back by the knowledge of their “number” than there are those making outstanding physical progress because of it.[/quote]

If you read my original post, I asked what his level of bodyfat is, I haven’t for some reason assumed he is 12% bodyfat, as you seem to think.

I certainly wouldn’t suggest he go to get if bodyfat precisely measured by hydrostatic testing or a medical scan, bodyfat calipers would suffice.

Your over thinking his question, all he wants to know is how much protein to consume, your level of macronutrient consumption depends on body size, bodyfat level and level of daily exercise.

He wants a rough estimate! the best way to figure that out is by bodyweight and bodyfat level, i.e. If he is nearly 400lb of ripped muscle at roughly 5% bodyfat he will need alot more protein than if he is 400lb at 30-40% bodyfat. He will only need a rough measurement, a caliper test will suffice, being only be a couple of percent difference than more accurate methods.

112

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]OklahomaHoss wrote:

Hell, I’ve actually been referred to as (and this is no joke) “the dumbest member of all time” because I workout a little differently than anyone else, and defended that fact.
[/quote]

Are you referring to me? I wrote heavy duty sounds like the worst training method of all time, but I never wrote you were the dumbest member of all time. Unless someone else in that thread wrote that, but I don’t recall that.

OK Hoss, I’m going to give it to you straight (as by now you should realize I usually do). I think you have a lot more weight to lose than you think. If you were truly in the 20% range of body fat, you would be a pretty ripped 330 pounds after weight loss and you’d belong on stage somewhere dwarfing Johnnie Jackson.

I understand you don’t want to log on to T-Nation and be treated as a complete fat ass or whatever, but you won’t be able to get the fat loss advice you NEED unless people are more familiar with your particular situation.[/quote]

That was me, and I still stand by it.

Look, I really don’t know what to make of this guy. He says he’s the strongest on his block, “330 and not too fat” and been training for a long time.

Trying to make sense of this, I CANT. If what he’s saying is true, he could pass as a half decent powerlifter/strongman competitor, and as Lanky said, could dwarf J.O.J if he lost a bit of fat, cause as the OP insists on every fucking post, he doesnt have that much fat to lose.

OP, just post a picture for fucks sakes. If you want genuine help, everyone is more than willing to give you solid advice. Why are you so afraid everyone’s gonna make fun of you? Like I said, everyone on here can be assholes but only when responding to trolls.

So who cares if you’re fat? You gotta start somewhere right? If you’re living in denial, which I think is your number one issue, then you’ll more than likely to stay where you are. Snap out of it.

113

[quote]rhythmically wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:
What percentage bodyfat are you?[/quote]

This question is irrelevant unless he has gotten it tested via DEXA scan. Anything else is simply a guess, possibly an educated one. What I mean is, without a picture, the number is pointless[/quote]

Its far from pointless, if his bodyfat is roughly in the high 30s compared to in the region of 10-12% it would make a huge difference to the macro nutrient profile in his diet.[/quote]

???

You have some reason to think this guy is anywhere near 12% body fat?

No, his specific number does NOT matter if, for one he won’t post pictures showing his body at all, and two, he tells us he needs to lose 80lbs.

There is going to be an error with most traditional ways of measuring body fat, especially those bio-impedance scales.

Most of these people are likely being held back by the knowledge of their “number” than there are those making outstanding physical progress because of it.[/quote]

If you read my original post, I asked what his level of bodyfat is, I haven’t for some reason assumed he is 12% bodyfat, as you seem to think.

I certainly wouldn’t suggest he go to get if bodyfat precisely measured by hydrostatic testing or a medical scan, bodyfat calipers would suffice.

Your over thinking his question, all he wants to know is how much protein to consume, your level of macronutrient consumption depends on body size, bodyfat level and level of daily exercise.

He wants a rough estimate! the best way to figure that out is by bodyweight and bodyfat level, i.e. If he is nearly 400lb of ripped muscle at roughly 5% bodyfat he will need alot more protein than if he is 400lb at 30-40% bodyfat. He will only need a rough measurement, a caliper test will suffice, being only be a couple of percent difference than more accurate methods. [/quote]

NO thats the point. A caliper test WONT suffice. A DEXA scan would be the only relevant numbe because it’s the only REAL number.

A caliper reading is a good as a educated guess. A picture is so much more valuable because it shows fat distribution as well as the overall picture.

At a certain point (when a person is big enough or rediculously lean) the calipers are just going to get more and more inaccurate. If he gets a reading of 22% but is actually 33% then what?

114

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

He didn’t see my “try 500 grams if you want to weigh 320 lb” recommendation I guess.
Of course I wouldn’t tell some guy with over 60 pounds to lose that he should be eating 700 grams of protein or anything like that… Hell, I don’t think any drug free trainee needs that… But 450-550 at 300+ lbs is entirely reasonable as far as I’m concerned.

I’m a bit surprised though… With all the steak you eat/used to eat plus your shakes, I expected your intake to be higher (or to have been higher when you were around 300 lbs). Still, it’s not like we can be compared to a 300lb coleman who is much leaner at that weight, so it works out as far as I’m concerned.[/quote]

It may be a little higher, but before I started using MAG-10, I was getting about 150gr from shakes a day of whey protein plus the steaks. As I don’t weigh them, I estimated them at about 80gr of protein a piece.

When I was around 300lbs I was not dieting so it very well could have been higher but I doubt it was much over 500 if that high.

No disagreement there. I just made the statement because some here in past debates seemed to think I was overdosing on protein when the truth is, to even get as heavy as I was, caloric intake was top priority, not protein intake. If you are eating a surplus of calories, more protein should remain in storage instead of used as a fuel source.

115

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]rhythmically wrote:
What percentage bodyfat are you?[/quote]

This question is irrelevant unless he has gotten it tested via DEXA scan. Anything else is simply a guess, possibly an educated one. What I mean is, without a picture, the number is pointless[/quote]

Its far from pointless, if his bodyfat is roughly in the high 30s compared to in the region of 10-12% it would make a huge difference to the macro nutrient profile in his diet.[/quote]

???

You have some reason to think this guy is anywhere near 12% body fat?

No, his specific number does NOT matter if, for one he won’t post pictures showing his body at all, and two, he tells us he needs to lose 80lbs.

There is going to be an error with most traditional ways of measuring body fat, especially those bio-impedance scales.

Most of these people are likely being held back by the knowledge of their “number” than there are those making outstanding physical progress because of it.[/quote]

If you read my original post, I asked what his level of bodyfat is, I haven’t for some reason assumed he is 12% bodyfat, as you seem to think.

I certainly wouldn’t suggest he go to get if bodyfat precisely measured by hydrostatic testing or a medical scan, bodyfat calipers would suffice.

Your over thinking his question, all he wants to know is how much protein to consume, your level of macronutrient consumption depends on body size, bodyfat level and level of daily exercise.

He wants a rough estimate! the best way to figure that out is by bodyweight and bodyfat level, i.e. If he is nearly 400lb of ripped muscle at roughly 5% bodyfat he will need alot more protein than if he is 400lb at 30-40% bodyfat. He will only need a rough measurement, a caliper test will suffice, being only be a couple of percent difference than more accurate methods. [/quote]

NO thats the point. A caliper test WONT suffice. A DEXA scan would be the only relevant numbe because it’s the only REAL number.

A caliper reading is a good as a educated guess. A picture is so much more valuable because it shows fat distribution as well as the overall picture.

At a certain point (when a person is big enough or rediculously lean) the calipers are just going to get more and more inaccurate. If he gets a reading of 22% but is actually 33% then what? [/quote]

HA HA, Dude a DEXA scan is overkill in finding out how much protein to consume, maybe he’d need that level of accuracy to find out his exact BMI prior to a extensive operation.

Even bodyfat calipers are overkill, most people will go by their weight in lbs multiplied by 2 (depending on level of exercise) For finding out how many shakes to consume per day. An educated guess is all thats needed.

116

From what I could see of that facebook photo, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that even if you dropped down to 300lbs, (losing mostly fat), you still wouldn’t be lean, shredded, or ab-showing.

But that doesn’t change the general advice to eat less than you burn, eat a lot of protein, train hard, etc. A simple plan is all you need.

117

Your “hard leg workout” consists of the following:

Your “hard leg workout” is a total of 3 work sets and you have said yourself that you only train once every 4 days or so. Your level of conditioning is likely far below what you think it is since the average trainee performs a higher volume of work in 3 workouts than you do in an entire MONTH.

If you are, by your own admission, very sedentary, then why in the hell are you trying to train using a system that essentially equates to going to the gym and being sedentary at the gym.

You keep talking about wanting to compete in Strongman and I think you are kidding yourself if you are going to do anything remotely like strongman while maintaining a next-to-nonexistent work capacity. Strongmen are among the best conditioned strength athletes in the world (up there with the high level olympic lifters who train literally for hours each day).

You are delusional. You are 400 lbs and deadlifting 225 lbs for 3 reps. You claim to have “a lot of muscle” and have enough experience to not need to listen to any advice besides that which is written in your copy of HD2 despite not knowing how much protein to eat on a daily basis or out deadlifting my 135 lb girlfriend. You want to compete in one of the most demanding sports in the world in terms of conditioning while maintaining a lifestyle that completely abhors creating or maintaining any sort of work capacity.

Here’s what you need to do. You need to unfuck everything about your approach to lifting and nutrition. You need to learn to control your eating and feed your body appropriately. You need to stop being a pussy and start actually working on building strength and work capacity rather than blindly following some obtuse system based largely on the writings of Ayn Rand, and you need to stop thinking you know everything when you clearly do not. Why don’t you show up to a strongman contest and TRY to make it through the first 2 events without your heart exploding. Strongman demands a well rounded athlete and you don’t become well rounded by being 400 lbs, sitting on your ass 5-6 out of 7 days of the week and going to the gym to do 3 work sets every 4th day.

There are numerous amateur strongmen keeping training logs on the internet and several on this site alone, check out their training to get an idea of the sort of thing you are going to need to be doing.

118

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

Your “hard leg workout” consists of the following:

Your “hard leg workout” is a total of 3 work sets and you have said yourself that you only train once every 4 days or so. Your level of conditioning is likely far below what you think it is since the average trainee performs a higher volume of work in 3 workouts than you do in an entire MONTH.

If you are, by your own admission, very sedentary, then why in the hell are you trying to train using a system that essentially equates to going to the gym and being sedentary at the gym.

You keep talking about wanting to compete in Strongman and I think you are kidding yourself if you are going to do anything remotely like strongman while maintaining a next-to-nonexistent work capacity. Strongmen are among the best conditioned strength athletes in the world (up there with the high level olympic lifters who train literally for hours each day).

You are delusional. You are 400 lbs and deadlifting 225 lbs for 3 reps. You claim to have “a lot of muscle” and have enough experience to not need to listen to any advice besides that which is written in your copy of HD2 despite not knowing how much protein to eat on a daily basis or out deadlifting my 135 lb girlfriend. You want to compete in one of the most demanding sports in the world in terms of conditioning while maintaining a lifestyle that completely abhors creating or maintaining any sort of work capacity.

Here’s what you need to do. You need to unfuck everything about your approach to lifting and nutrition. You need to learn to control your eating and feed your body appropriately. You need to stop being a pussy and start actually working on building strength and work capacity rather than blindly following some obtuse system based largely on the writings of Ayn Rand, and you need to stop thinking you know everything when you clearly do not. Why don’t you show up to a strongman contest and TRY to make it through the first 2 events without your heart exploding. Strongman demands a well rounded athlete and you don’t become well rounded by being 400 lbs, sitting on your ass 5-6 out of 7 days of the week and going to the gym to do 3 work sets every 4th day.

There are numerous amateur strongmen keeping training logs on the internet and several on this site alone, check out their training to get an idea of the sort of thing you are going to need to be doing.[/quote]

I didn’t want to be so harsh, but god damn x 2 on everything in this post.

OP - I think you’re delusional, and you “perspective is everything” thread may be the reason. If you’re surrounded by guys telling you how big and strong you are, you’re going to start believing it.

119

Well said above. The only reason I didn’t go there was because I was trying to get him to post a picture…but I think it is safe to say that in 99% of the cases where someone simply refuses to show any sort of pic of their progress, that they aren’t making much if any progress at all.

Someone who only had 80lbs to lose to get ripped at that weight and height would look like an off season pro bodybuilder. Why? Because those guys regularly lose about 60lbs or more just to get into contest shape.

There may be 5 people on this whole site carrying that much muscle.

120

If you want honest advice, be honest about yourself.