People carry bodyfat in different places. I’ll use myself as an example. I have no separation in my legs and barely any on the insides of my arms. But I have had abs showing my entire life. My shoulders also stay lean.
I meant to add this. Tendon attachments also have a lot to do with how much separation is visible at a particular bodyfat level. I think this is the sole reason I can see my abs at whatever bodyfat I’ve been at but lose the separation in my arms anytime I am putting on weight. I also have no definition in my legs other than my vastus medialis but I can barely pinch the skin on my legs because of how little fat there is.
Many of us have seen the pictures of pro bodybuilders in competition with no visible abdominal separation. That is an extreme case obviously. But at higher bodyfat levels (read: normal person levels) it is even more likely that lines will be blurred based on someones tendon depth and stuff like that.
A picture of this guy’s arms is probably not providing enough visual information to judge whether or not he is out of shape, based on each individual’s preference.
I am not saying the OP should post a shirtless pic. That is his perogative. Just that one picture may not be enough to say that someone is too fat for their progress to be considered sucessful.
i know…beleive me i have had people PM me and say “well X pretty much says get as fat as possible and don’t worry about it”…NOOOOOOOOOOOOO thats NOT what he says damn it…yes eat as much HEALTHY food as you can, if you do this you WILL NOT get sloppy. The body is smart, if you eat shit…you guessed it… you will look like shit.
The fact that you are 300lbs of shit really does not impress anyone…i guess what i am trying to say albeit in a crude manner is keep it within reason guys, if no one can even tell you exercise, you are probably too fat.
[quote]twilson13 wrote:
I agree with what you are saying morepain. It looks like has an excess of fat, and that he can cut quite a bit off without getting to the point of being too lean. Prof x, what is your opinion on optimal bf% for bulking without having an excess? There is always a limit, and there has to be a point of diminishing returns. [/quote]
Any limit stated would be arbitrary. I actually had a similar discussion with CT in Colorado and even he understands that his “10%” recommendation was taken the wrong way by many newbies. The goal is to not become OUT OF SHAPE…which can mean different things to different people. I personally don’t give a shit most of the time whether I can see my abs clearly or not as long as my belly isn’t hanging out and as long as I don’t get winded doing physical activity. That may be “18%” for me…but who really cares about some exact body fat percentage when we all look differently at different numbers?
I have seen people read with calipers at 17% who still had all abs showing. Should they diet?
I posted a pic last year of a guy who weighs about 340lbs at 6’5" who is no doubt over 20% but STILL HAS ALL ABS SHOWING. Should he diet down? Why if he is happy the way he is?
Obviously, the end goal is to be BIG and LEAN, but who the hell is gaining in excess of 80lbs of lean body mass by never going above 10% body fat aside from true rare genetic freaks and/or people who have used steroids from very early on in their development?
[quote]morepain wrote:
i know…beleive me i have had people PM me and say “well X pretty much says get as fat as possible and don’t worry about it”…NOOOOOOOOOOOOO thats NOT what he says damn it…yes eat as much HEALTHY food as you can, if you do this you WILL NOT get sloppy. The body is smart, if you eat shit…you guessed it… you will look like shit.
The fact that you are 300lbs of shit really does not impress anyone…i guess what i am trying to say albeit in a crude manner is keep it within reason guys, if no one can even tell you exercise, you are probably too fat. [/quote]
No argument there at all. If ALL you eat is chili fries, you will LOOK like all you eat is chili fries. That doesn’t mean the guys eating nothing but steel milled oats and chicken breasts are doing it right either. They are at the opposite end of a dead end result spectrum.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
People carry bodyfat in different places. I’ll use myself as an example. I have no separation in my legs and barely any on the insides of my arms. But I have had abs showing my entire life. My shoulders also stay lean.
I meant to add this. Tendon attachments also have a lot to do with how much separation is visible at a particular bodyfat level. I think this is the sole reason I can see my abs at whatever bodyfat I’ve been at but lose the separation in my arms anytime I am putting on weight. I also have no definition in my legs other than my vastus medialis but I can barely pinch the skin on my legs because of how little fat there is.
Many of us have seen the pictures of pro bodybuilders in competition with no visible abdominal separation. That is an extreme case obviously. But at higher bodyfat levels (read: normal person levels) it is even more likely that lines will be blurred based on someones tendon depth and stuff like that.
A picture of this guy’s arms is probably not providing enough visual information to judge whether or not he is out of shape, based on each individual’s preference.
I am not saying the OP should post a shirtless pic. That is his perogative. Just that one picture may not be enough to say that someone is too fat for their progress to be considered sucessful.
EDITED [/quote]
Well said. And Leo Ingram is one of those bodybuilders who barely has any ab separation during contests but who is so ripped everywhere else he has been described as one of the most densely developed bodybuilders on the scene.
Obviously someone like that would never see their abs if they are much above 7-8% body fat.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Any limit stated would be arbitrary. I actually had a similar discussion with CT in Colorado and even he understands that his “10%” recommendation was taken the wrong way by many newbies. The goal is to not become OUT OF SHAPE…which can mean different things to different people. I personally don’t give a shit most of the time whether I can see my abs clearly or not as long as my belly isn’t hanging out and as long as I don’t get winded doing physical activity. That may be “18%” for me…but who really cares about some exact body fat percentage when we all look differently at different numbers?
I have seen people read with calipers at 17% who still had all abs showing. Should they diet?
I posted a pic last year of a guy who weighs about 340lbs at 6’5" who is no doubt over 20% but STILL HAS ALL ABS SHOWING. Should he diet down? Why if he is happy the way he is?
Obviously, the end goal is to be BIG and LEAN, but who the hell is gaining in excess of 80lbs of lean body mass by never going above 10% body fat aside from true rare genetic freaks and/or people who have used steroids from very early on in their development?[/quote]
Sorry if this had been asked before, but it’s been a while since I have read “your” threads (i.e. PX: A request and Gimme an X). Have you ever gotten to a point where you had to spend a significant amount of time doing damage control due to gaining too much fat for your liking? If so, how long did you spend losing that fat (either in terms of weeks or rough level of leanness)? Or have you generally been able to keep fat in check well enough not to get to that point?
Thanks.
FightorFlight - Great size gains! I would love for my arms to be 2 inches bigger!
As regards cutting, I agree with your personal decision to stick with getting bigger/stronger.
Everyone is different. For some like me, I can bulk between 8-12% bodyfat (small frame). For others, maybe like yourself, it’s better to bulk at a more comfortable higher fat level. It all depends on genetics and natural hormone balance. I’d guess that you are probably about 15% bodyfat? If 15% bodyfat is what you tend to maintain most of your life (as long as your diet hasn’t been terrible), then that’s the fat level that’s best to gain muscle with (unless you did cardio too, in which case you could bulk at a lower bf%).
If in the future you did decide to cut the fat down, don’t lower your calories by much (if at all), rather, clean up your diet and boost your calorie expenditure by speeding up your metabolism, like through HIIT. You don’t need to loose strength/muscle when cutting fat. It should only take a few months to get it down.
[quote]BiP wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Any limit stated would be arbitrary. I actually had a similar discussion with CT in Colorado and even he understands that his “10%” recommendation was taken the wrong way by many newbies. The goal is to not become OUT OF SHAPE…which can mean different things to different people. I personally don’t give a shit most of the time whether I can see my abs clearly or not as long as my belly isn’t hanging out and as long as I don’t get winded doing physical activity. That may be “18%” for me…but who really cares about some exact body fat percentage when we all look differently at different numbers?
I have seen people read with calipers at 17% who still had all abs showing. Should they diet?
I posted a pic last year of a guy who weighs about 340lbs at 6’5" who is no doubt over 20% but STILL HAS ALL ABS SHOWING. Should he diet down? Why if he is happy the way he is?
Obviously, the end goal is to be BIG and LEAN, but who the hell is gaining in excess of 80lbs of lean body mass by never going above 10% body fat aside from true rare genetic freaks and/or people who have used steroids from very early on in their development?
Sorry if this had been asked before, but it’s been a while since I have read “your” threads (i.e. PX: A request and Gimme an X). Have you ever gotten to a point where you had to spend a significant amount of time doing damage control due to gaining too much fat for your liking? If so, how long did you spend losing that fat (either in terms of weeks or rough level of leanness)? Or have you generally been able to keep fat in check well enough not to get to that point?
Thanks.
B.[/quote]
I purposefully let myself gain more body fat than I was comfortable with about 2 years ago when I hit my heaviest body weight the very first time (because I was looking to hit a specific number for body weight at the time). It took me about 4 months to drop over 30lbs (and the only reason I dropped the weight that fast was because I didn’t want to scare people at job interviews). I have never tried to get “extremely ripped” before but also have never had much of a hard time losing body weight if needed. I had to drop weight pretty much every year for weigh ins in the military. In fact, just to get in the military required me to drop from 270lbs to 220lbs with the last 20 lost in two weeks during board exams. Obviously I lost quite a bit of muscle doing that as fast as I did but it should show that my metabolism isn’t slow.
I am not dieting like that anymore and am actually not in a rush to drop BODY WEIGHT. I would rather take much longer and keep more muscle mass now. I carry the level of body fat I do now because I am comfortable with it and like my strength levels and progress.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I had to drop weight pretty much every year for weigh ins in the military. In fact, just to get in the military required me to drop from 270lbs to 220lbs with the last 20 lost in two weeks during board exams. Obviously I lost quite a bit of muscle doing that…[/quote]
That’s quite funny really - usually the military are used to requesting individuals to GAIN weight, or loose fat lol
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I had to drop weight pretty much every year for weigh ins in the military. In fact, just to get in the military required me to drop from 270lbs to 220lbs with the last 20 lost in two weeks during board exams. Obviously I lost quite a bit of muscle doing that…
That’s quite funny really - usually the military are used to requesting individuals to GAIN weight, or loose fat lol[/quote]
Dude, they took one look at me when I first walked in and tripped out. They didn’t even weigh me at first. They just told me I was too big. The only thing funnier than that is watching me try to fit into the uniforms at my first base considering they didn’t have time to order my size specifically…and that was when I was down to 230lbs.
Mind you, there are many big weight lifters in the military…they just aren’t often in the AirForce.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
its_just_me wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I had to drop weight pretty much every year for weigh ins in the military. In fact, just to get in the military required me to drop from 270lbs to 220lbs with the last 20 lost in two weeks during board exams. Obviously I lost quite a bit of muscle doing that…
That’s quite funny really - usually the military are used to requesting individuals to GAIN weight, or loose fat lol
Dude, they took one look at me when I first walked in and tripped out. They didn’t even weigh me at first. They just told me I was too big. The only thing funnier than that is watching me try to fit into the uniforms at my first base considering they didn’t have time to order my size specifically…and that was when I was down to 230lbs.
Mind you, there are many big weight lifters in the military…they just aren’t often in the AirForce.[/quote]
haha
I can understand that, many of the guys I’ve seen in the AirForce don’t come even close to filling their uniforms.
Not that I like checking guys out in uniforms or anything…
Speaking of the airforce. A friend of mine shipped out for basic training last sunday night the 22nd. He is currently underweight for the airforce. for his height (5 foot 7) the minimum weight is 121 and he is 6 lbs under. this is a 22 year old guy who weighs 115 lbs.
[quote]FightorFlight wrote:
Speaking of the airforce. A friend of mine shipped out for basic training last sunday night the 22nd. He is currently underweight for the airforce. for his height (5 foot 7) the minimum weight is 121 and he is 6 lbs under. this is a 22 year old guy who weighs 115 lbs.
[/quote]
I bet this poor guy feels really “manly”? It’s hard enough being underweight, let alone having a friend next to him who’s a big bodybuilder/powerlifter
