Why would you stay on a program that isn’t very conducive to bodybuilding if you’re trying to bulk up? Just because someone told you to do so?
The only thing you’re “supposed” to do is what produces results. There is no one plan that works for everyone.
By ‘2-3-4’ range i was referring to a general range for the powerlifts (bench:200lbs, or 2 plates, squat:300lbs or 3 plates, deadlift: 400lbs or 4 plates.)
I’m a beginner too, but here’s my two cents:
I would listen to your body, that seems to work for me right now. I mean, if you don’t feel absolutely destroyed from your workout, then don’t eat like you were. If you do tear it up during your workout, then eat a lot post workout and the next day. You should be able to tell if you’ve really done good in the gym by how your muscles feel.
If you consistently aren’t feeling this way then I would either up the weight or add some sets of something different on. I personally lean toward doing more sets but everyone is different. I just knew I grew like crazy when I did 6 sets of flat bench, incline bench, and decline bench each for my chest workout and my chest felt like mush afterward.
When I do fewer sets but push the weight up it doesn’t seem to have the same effect. But like I said, everyone is different, the programs you get online are really only a starting point - if you can tell something isn’t working for you, don’t do it - and if you can tell something is working great for you then do it more.
The parts where I gain fat, obviously, are the days where i’ve been off from training a few days or did only a light training day but still ate a lot. If I DO feel like i’ve done this, like was the case with me last weekend where I was drunk all day and somehow thought McDonalds and other junk food was a good idea, then I do some intense cardio to negate some of those bad decisions.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
Why would you stay on a program that isn’t very conducive to bodybuilding if you’re trying to bulk up? Just because someone told you to do so?
The only thing you’re “supposed” to do is what produces results. There is no one plan that works for everyone.
By ‘2-3-4’ range i was referring to a general range for the powerlifts (bench:200lbs, or 2 plates, squat:300lbs or 3 plates, deadlift: 400lbs or 4 plates.)
[/quote]
Because so far, I’m still increasing my lifts and body weight (even though I fucked up and ate way too much, I don’t think all of that 15lbs was fat, although I don’t know how muscle exactly.) It also seems like lots of people have made really excellent gains on it and I don’t see a reason to come off Rippetoes until I stop making gains. Also - this is something I’ve never been entirely clear on - don’t most bodybuilding routines focus on hypertrophy rather than strength? My personal goal is somewhere in between the two, although I’d think it’d be easier to build muscle, functional or not, after getting strength to a certain threshold.
Thank you for clarifying on ‘2-3-4’, that was really confusing. Are you talking about 45lb plates? That doesn’t seem quite right, 45/45/45 (for bar) would only be 135.
[quote]nowakc wrote:
I’m a beginner too, but here’s my two cents:
I would listen to your body, that seems to work for me right now. I mean, if you don’t feel absolutely destroyed from your workout, then don’t eat like you were. If you do tear it up during your workout, then eat a lot post workout and the next day. You should be able to tell if you’ve really done good in the gym by how your muscles feel.
If you consistently aren’t feeling this way then I would either up the weight or add some sets of something different on. I personally lean toward doing more sets but everyone is different. I just knew I grew like crazy when I did 6 sets of flat bench, incline bench, and decline bench each for my chest workout and my chest felt like mush afterward.
When I do fewer sets but push the weight up it doesn’t seem to have the same effect. But like I said, everyone is different, the programs you get online are really only a starting point - if you can tell something isn’t working for you, don’t do it - and if you can tell something is working great for you then do it more.
The parts where I gain fat, obviously, are the days where i’ve been off from training a few days or did only a light training day but still ate a lot. If I DO feel like i’ve done this, like was the case with me last weekend where I was drunk all day and somehow thought McDonalds and other junk food was a good idea, then I do some intense cardio to negate some of those bad decisions.[/quote]
Thanks for the input. I’m thinking about adding on more work sets, I think I lean towards higher sets as well. Rippetoes is based on a 5x5 program, so I don’t think it’s going to hurt to add to it, provided I’m not changing the exercises or anything. I think that’ll get me sufficiently crapped out without forcing me to sacrifice form or anything.
Man, how did McDonald’s become a good idea? Even drunk… I thought we all had good habits by now. 
Bottom line man:
You have a great foundation to spring from. You are in better shape than most beginners.
Do the following, screw the details right now:
Lift HARD. (90% of your overall comes from this)
Eat healthy and often.
Sprints, running, walking, rowing, whatever. Just stay as active as possible.
Thats about it. How do you want to look? Make it happen. Over-analysis is a negative trait in this realm. Many beginners quit working because they start feeling overwhelmed by information.
[quote]Dissonance wrote:
Bottom line man:
You have a great foundation to spring from. You are in better shape than most beginners.
Do the following, screw the details right now:
Lift HARD. (90% of your overall comes from this)
Eat healthy and often.
Sprints, running, walking, rowing, whatever. Just stay as active as possible.
Thats about it. How do you want to look? Make it happen. Over-analysis is a negative trait in this realm. Many beginners quit working because they start feeling overwhelmed by information.[/quote]
Yeah, that’s the plan. I used to overanalyze really badly, now I just spring on T-Nation periodically to see if I’m progressing as well as I thought I was, fix what sucks and learn a few things.
Thanks for the encouragement, I think I’ve gotten what I needed to out of this thread. Increase sets, do some maintenance cardio, don’t eat too much. Although, I would like to have someone take a look at my lifts and tell me if my form is really messed up or anything.
Check the related links to the right.
Watch those over and over and over. Mimic them at home while watching. Mark goes through proper form for all of the lifts you might be questioning.
I know youtube is a poor sub for a trainer, but this is a great start. Take this into the gym with light weights, and DO NOT be afraid to ask some of the more balanced lifters in your gym to critique your lifts.
[quote]blue_star_cadet wrote:
It also seems like lots of people have made really excellent gains on it and I don’t see a reason to come off Rippetoes until I stop making gains. [/quote]
Honestly, I have yet to see one person make incredible gains in the way of bodybuilding doing Rippetoes that has surpassed (or even equalled) the gains most make just doing a traditional program.
Bodybuilding programs don’t normally focus on one-rep-max strength, but strength and hypertrophy are directly related. The most important variable of progress in any bodybuilding routine is lifting heavier and heavier weight.
You CANNOT get significantly bigger without getting significantly stronger. The difference is, in powerlifting your only goal is to get the weight up however you can, and do it only one time. Whereas in bodybuilding you want to get the weight up by using the target muscle group, and you want to do it several times till muscular failure.
But they are both training towards lifting more weight.
So please don’t get the idea that bodybuilding means gaining muscular size while gaining NO strength at all, because that is absolutely not how it works.
What the hell is “unfunctional” muscle? There is no such thing.
I would disagree with you and say that it would be easier to gain muscle while you’re also making the best strength gains of your life. And by avoiding giving all of your muscle groups enough attention and intensity to breakdown and grow, you’re throwing away quality “newbie gains” just so you can get a handful of lifts up to some arbitrary level. And then things will magically be easier in the way of gaining more muscle? Because you’ll have reached a point where strength gains have SLOWED?
I’m not seeing the logic.
[quote]Thank you for clarifying on ‘2-3-4’, that was really confusing. Are you talking about 45lb plates? That doesn’t seem quite right, 45/45/45 (for bar) would only be 135.
[/quote]
When someone says 2 plates, they mean two 45lb plates on each side of the bar = 225lbs.
3 plates would be 315lbs. 4 plates 405lbs. Etc… Sorry for the confusion.
[quote]blue_star_cadet wrote:
Man, how did McDonald’s become a good idea? Even drunk… I thought we all had good habits by now. ;P[/quote]
At around 3000 calories per day, it ain’t a good idea. Once you start getting up to around 5000 it becomes much more acceptable. Remember, the bigger you get, the more calories you need. I don’t think one of the take home messages here should be to not “eat too much.” You look fine, and it looks like your back has a good % of your overall muscle so don’t worry too much about fat gain and consider our recommendations especially if progress stalls.
[quote]Dissonance wrote:
Check the related links to the right.
Watch those over and over and over. Mimic them at home while watching. Mark goes through proper form for all of the lifts you might be questioning.
I know youtube is a poor sub for a trainer, but this is a great start. Take this into the gym with light weights, and DO NOT be afraid to ask some of the more balanced lifters in your gym to critique your lifts.
[/quote]
Thanks for the link, I’ll watch them when I get a chance. Unfortunately, the two gyms I use (local rec center and high school gym) don’t have many people to look up to in terms of fitness, at least not where I want to be.
There’s only one or two strong guys who regularly visit the rec center and neither fits my fitness/aesthetic goals.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
Honestly, I have yet to see one person make incredible gains in the way of bodybuilding doing Rippetoes that has surpassed (or even equalled) the gains most make just doing a traditional program.
Bodybuilding programs don’t normally focus on one-rep-max strength, but strength and hypertrophy are directly related. The most important variable of progress in any bodybuilding routine is lifting heavier and heavier weight.
You CANNOT get significantly bigger without getting significantly stronger. The difference is, in powerlifting your only goal is to get the weight up however you can, and do it only one time. Whereas in bodybuilding you want to get the weight up by using the target muscle group, and you want to do it several times till muscular failure.
But they are both training towards lifting more weight.
So please don’t get the idea that bodybuilding means gaining muscular size while gaining NO strength at all, because that is absolutely not how it works.
What the hell is “unfunctional” muscle? There is no such thing.
I would disagree with you and say that it would be easier to gain muscle while you’re also making the best strength gains of your life.
And by avoiding giving all of your muscle groups enough attention and intensity to breakdown and grow, you’re throwing away quality “newbie gains” just so you can get a handful of lifts up to some arbitrary level.
And then things will magically be easier in the way of gaining more muscle? Because you’ll have reached a point where strength gains have SLOWED?
I’m not seeing the logic.
When someone says 2 plates, they mean two 45lb plates on each side of the bar = 225lbs.
3 plates would be 315lbs. 4 plates 405lbs. Etc… Sorry for the confusion.[/quote]
Well, I wasn’t under the impression that guys like Ronnie Coleman are without functional strength, but I thought they sacrificed some degree of strength in order to be lean as they are. Is that true? Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Yeah that ‘functional muscle’ thing came out retarded. What was I was trying to say, basically, was that I’d rather be, say, 160lbs and deadlift 500 lbs than 300lbs and deadlift 800lbs. Do you think that now would be a good time to transition off Rippetoes though? Two months seems like sort of a short period of time for a program.
Two open questions:
I haven’t done a day’s food log yet, but I think I’ve been taking in a lot less than 3000 calories because of a real lack of appetite (illness, fatigue and missing workouts.) Should I just go back up to 3000 or slowly increase until I reach that threshold?
If I’m doing everything properly (eating 3000 cals, lifting heavy, cardio) can I expect to see some fat burn as I build muscle? I know you can’t sustain something like that for a long period of time, but I feel like a complete fatass whenever I sit down or lapse into anything less than perfect posture.
I’m not going to start cutting or anything for ‘absss’ as that isn’t my goal but I am really fucking sick of my excess flab right now, I’ve gone up one or two pant sizes and it’s pissing me off.
I’d like to be without a belly by December, I have to visit jailbait and do my utmost best to get into their pants. Bellies are not conducive to this.
[quote]blue_star_cadet wrote:
I haven’t done a day’s food log yet, but I think I’ve been taking in a lot less than 3000 calories because of a real lack of appetite (illness, fatigue and missing workouts.) Should I just go back up to 3000 or slowly increase until I reach that threshold?
If I’m eating enough and lifting, can I expect to see some (SOME being the key word) of the fat I’ve accumulated recently burn off as I build muscle, without cardio? I know you can only do something like this for a short period of time, but this excess fat is pissing me off.
I’m going to start some sprints anyways, but I’m curious if it can be done without.[/quote]
What kind of illness do you have right now? Sounds like it’s been affecting you for a while now.
That’s the best way to lose fat. Build lean mass. You don’t need to do any cardio. (Although, it’s important to have some form of cardio in your routine.)
[quote]Dissonance wrote:
blue_star_cadet wrote:
I haven’t done a day’s food log yet, but I think I’ve been taking in a lot less than 3000 calories because of a real lack of appetite (illness, fatigue and missing workouts.) Should I just go back up to 3000 or slowly increase until I reach that threshold?
If I’m eating enough and lifting, can I expect to see some (SOME being the key word) of the fat I’ve accumulated recently burn off as I build muscle, without cardio? I know you can only do something like this for a short period of time, but this excess fat is pissing me off. I’m going to start some sprints anyways, but I’m curious if it can be done without.
What kind of illness do you have right now? Sounds like it’s been affecting you for a while now.
That’s the best way to lose fat. Build lean mass. You don’t need to do any cardio. (Although, it’s important to have some form of cardio in your routine.)
[/quote]
I had some sort of cold or flu for a couple of weeks, hacking cough, very phlegmy and crappy numbers in the gym. I’m off it now, but I did manage to infect at least five or six people at school.
Right now it’s less illness than it is fatigue, I’m coming off two terrible, terrible weeks at school and home and about to go pass out right now. I missed Wednesday’s workout and don’t have the energy to put in a halfway decent session today
(I alomst fell asleep at the keyboard twice while typing my first response) and will probably miss tomorrow’s due to an SAT and a math class failing that (the rec center gym closing at 5 PM.) I am going to really try and get back into it next week.
I sort of went back and edited my question, as what you quoted wasn’t what I really wanted to say, but you more or less answered my second question. I just need to get rid of this fucking stomach by December. Thanks for the advice.
Regarding the burning of “SOME muscle”, this may be the case as your body will be less inclined to store excess calories as fat once you cut down to about 3000 as discussed earlier. However, if you gain weight and your fat mass remains constant or increases a little, your BF% will remain the same, or possibly less.
PS - Your squats are pretty awesome for only having 20-21 inch legs! Before I slipped a disc, I had 22.5" legs and squatted less than you!
[quote]njrusmc wrote:
Regarding the burning of “SOME muscle”, this may be the case as your body will be less inclined to store excess calories as fat once you cut down to about 3000 as discussed earlier.
However, if you gain weight and your fat mass remains constant or increases a little, your BF% will remain the same, or possibly less.
PS - Your squats are pretty awesome for only having 20-21 inch legs! Before I slipped a disc, I had 22.5" legs and squatted less than you![/quote]
You’re supposed to go around the widest part, right? I just re-measured and I’m around 22 inches, so we’re closer than you thought! Thanks for the compliment and info.