10/16 Cool Tip?

Training Bodybuilding
141

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Robert P. wrote:
I think people are overusing the “buckets of juice” statement here. If all it took was buckets of juice, than I would say more bodybuilders would be using full body routines, because the training doesn’t matter anyway. If full body worked better than splits, there should be even bigger bodybuilders than the ones we have now using full body routines.

Who ever said that buckets of juice is all it takes?

What I’m saying is that there is nothing more dogmatic and bullshit like than to post a pic of a pro that is juiced to the fucking gills, and say that this is a result of splits, without including the fact that they use a lot more than splits to get that way.

That is the same sleazy technique that manufacturers use to promote bullshit supps, bullshit programs, and sell bullshit mags.

It is the same bullshit technique that lead kids to believe that if they follow X program, take Y supps, they get Z results. When they don’t get Z results, which they never will, they easily and falsyl conclude that there must be some “Secret”.

So, what I’m saying here is that if someone wants to call bullshit, they should not use a technique that is historicaly as BULLSHIT as it gets. That technique is, as was done, Posting a pic of a pro, followed by a routine, and accompanied by a statement to the effect of “This is what he did to get huge”

So, if you want to bust some dogma, don’t use a technique that is as bullshit dogmatic as it gets.

[/quote]

Let’s reread what I wrote one more time, okay?

“If full body worked better than splits, there should be even bigger bodybuilders than the ones we have now using full body routines.”

The fact is, roids are available to anyone and everyone. Still, pro bodybuilders, arguably the guys with the most lean muscle mass in relation to height, use splits and not full body routines.

142

See, GH? You don’t need to resort to the lowest known tactic.

You have your own honest proof.

With several of the guys I’ve trained, splits build their foundation of strength until they could perform compound movements, at which time, we start to combine them. Once they have achieved a couple of basic goals, they can do splits, compounds or whatever the heck else they want.

143

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
Nothing worth noting!

Fin

My original routine I used to build these arms consisted of a split routine that included heavy barbell and dumbbell curls once a week. Then light isolation curls 3 times a week.

No steroids and no suppliments. This arm was built from split training and isolation movements. Would anybody like to post pics of their arms built on fullbodys without steroids and suppliments?

[EDIT]

My split routine looked like this:

Sun/Tue/Sat - (Light days)
3 sets of concentration curls for 30-50 total reps/set of dropset curling. (curl a weight 5-10 times, drop to a lighter one, curl it 10-15 times, drop again, and curl it another 15-20)

Thur - (Heavy day)

Barbell curls - 4-6 sets of 6-8 reps
Alternating Dumbbell Curls 3-5 sets of 6-8 reps
Incline or Bench curls - 2-4 sets of 6-8 reps[/quote]

Easy there GHF…

The arm pic is cool, but I have seen it about 47 times this month and it was you Avatar for about 3 months.

Please, please use a different pic next time to display your hard earned gains.

144

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
See, GH? You don’t need to resort to the lowest known tactic.

You have your own honest proof.

With several of the guys I’ve trained, splits build their foundation of strength until they could perform compound movements, at which time, we start to combine them. Once they have achieved a couple of basic goals, they can do splits, compounds or whatever the heck else they want.
[/quote]

I will even go so far to say that the idea of starting off a brand new trainer only using fullbodys might not be the best either. I think the best would be a combo of maybe 1 fullbody a week + maybe 3 splits. You can incorporate compound and isolation movements as a beginner.

1- The benefit of the fullbody will only use a couple basic movements to help promote strength, balance & stabilization, and coordination.

2- The benefit of the split and isolation movements right from the start… will help the trainer to feel their muscles working and learn how to concentrate on them, and achieve the under-rated mind-muscle connection alot sooner. This will help to correct imbalances or lagging muscles and symmetry problems from the start.

I’ve seen guys in the gym come up to me with a chest muscle that was half of the size of the other one and disproportionate front delts and ask me how to fix it. They all come from the bench press only group. They never really ever learned how to work a chest muscle… they just learned how to bench.

Now he has to spend the next few years correcting this problem he could have avoided if he only attacked bodybuilding in a different way.

I along with A.A. noticed a lack of upper chest development during my early years and took a plan right away to never let that be a problem. To this day I still will do Inclines more often and usually first before I will do a Flat Bench Press. I also learned how to control pec contraction through proper isolation and certain fly movements.

[EDIT]

Todays cool tip from CT goes along with what I’m saying here.

"Today’s tip comes from Christian Thibaudeau:

Isolate for Aesthetics

Some people will get a lot of quad development from squats while others will build mostly glutes and lower back. When training for aesthetic purposes, this isn’t acceptable. To create a good-looking physique, you must create an illusion: it’s not about adding as much mass as possible, but about adding mass in the right places. In that regard, it often becomes necessary to use more isolation exercises to make sure that everything is developed in proper balance."

145

What kind of cheese is best with all this whine?
Can I ask these questions?

Has anyone changed their opinion as a result of this thread?

Is anyone less sure that they are right because they are failing to persuade the other side?

Do people here train as much as they surf? Train as hard as they argue?

146

So, what do you guys think is better, full body routines, or split routines?

(you know this question is going to be asked in it’s own thread in a few weeks)

147

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
Would anybody like to post pics of their arms built on fullbodys without steroids and suppliments?[/quote]

Game, set, and match. On one side you have guys who use split training who are willing to post pics. On the other side are fanboys who won’t post pics. Gee… If it’s so effective, you’d think they’d want to show off their results!

There is not “argument” going on here. This is a classic science v. religion debate. People take Waterbury’s TBT dogma based on faith. They won’t look at the overwhelmving evidence that refutes Waterbury’s dogma.

Arguing with TBT people is like arguing with religious zealots.

148

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
What kind of cheese is best with all this whine?
Can I ask these questions?

Has anyone changed their opinion as a result of this thread?

Is anyone less sure that they are right because they are failing to persuade the other side?

Do people here train as much as they surf? Train as hard as they argue?[/quote]

I do everything at full force brother. I train, argue, fuck, and play the guitar… all balls to the wall. And I never look back.

I am willing to bet that this thread changed zero opinions for all those that have been at this for years. We already know all of this shit. The point was the beginners who don’t know shit. That is who this is directed at… so they know what to look for and where they might be headed in the future. They pay attention and pictures are worth a 1,000 words. They have not seen one pic of a fullbody trainer on or off of steroids to make a case for fullbodys better than splits… for bodybuilding aesthetic and physique purposes.

I rest my case.

Carry on…

149

Amazingly, after a request for pics from TBT’ers, this thread went silent. I guess that’s all there is to say.

150

Gee, and I though “split” routines actually worked the full body. What part do they leave out that the “full body” guys work? Not only do I find out I am wrong on my definitions, I find out that iso’s are only allowed in split routines. Sheeeet. 50 years of work down the tubes in one thread. :frowning:

Back to the real world. Frequency is the debatable point here. How many guys, no matter what you call your workout, work each body part only once per week versus those who hit each BP more than once and how would you rate your level of acheivement…advanced, beginner, not yet started? My ‘guess’ is the pros all opt for more than once per week. Isn’t that one of the reasons that they use huge amounts of steroids? It allows for that through increased protein synthesis.

This could make for an interesting poll but I don’t think the T-Nation forum has the capability to put up polls…or am I mistaken? If I am and I can get some direction, I’ll set one up. Otherwise, perhaps the 3 wisemen at T-Nation will set one up for us? :slight_smile:

To make it more ‘scientific,’ we could even add the ability to post editorial comments like “GHF is a real douchebag”, “Avoids Roids is a closet queen”, “Professor X is really only 135 pounds without his implants” or “ is an asshole with pipe stem arms and secretly yearns for TAChick.” We could probably get more participation that way. :slight_smile:

Captain Morgan is paging me. Play nice will I imbibe.

151

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:
Gee, and I though “split” routines actually worked the full body. What part do they leave out that the “full body” guys work? Not only do I find out I am wrong on my definitions, I find out that iso’s are only allowed in split routines. Sheeeet. 50 years of work down the tubes in one thread. :frowning:

Back to the real world. Frequency is the debatable point here. How many guys, no matter what you call your workout, work each body part only once per week versus those who hit each BP more than once and how would you rate your level of acheivement…advanced, beginner, not yet started? My ‘guess’ is the pros all opt for more than once per week. Isn’t that one of the reasons that they use huge amounts of steroids? It allows for that through increased protein synthesis.

This could make for an interesting poll but I don’t think the T-Nation forum has the capability to put up polls…or am I mistaken? If I am and I can get some direction, I’ll set one up. Otherwise, perhaps the 3 wisemen at T-Nation will set one up for us? :slight_smile:

To make it more ‘scientific,’ we could even add the ability to post editorial comments like “GHF is a real douchebag”, “Avoids Roids is a closet queen”, “Professor X is really only 135 pounds without his implants” or “ is an asshole with pipe stem arms and secretly yearns for TAChick.” We could probably get more participation that way. :slight_smile:

Captain Morgan is paging me. Play nice will I imbibe.[/quote]

Your argument sucks! Dont try diversion and distraction, I minored in pyschology. Nice try.

1- Frequency is not the debate here. I believe it was “fullbody vs splits for bodybuilding purposes”… why the change of argument? Will distraction work for the losing side? Maybe. Stay on topic.

2- Not all muscles can be worked with the same frequency and recovery time. This is precisely why I can train my biceps quicker than quads… even with both muscles being full blown to the wall in one workout of maximum intensity, my biceps will recover in 48 hours, and my legs may take 5 days. My calves I can train full blown probably twice a day. So much for your frequency diversion.

Pics please!

Anybody with fullbody training pics that would like to make a case for “fullbodys superior to splits for bodybuilders”… please post them following this post.

Thank you.

152

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
Pics please!

Anybody with fullbody training pics that would like to make a case for “fullbodys superior to splits for bodybuilders”… please post them preceeding this post.

Thank you.

[/quote]

You’re asking him to post pics of himself?

Hmmm…reminds me of another thread.

153

[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
Pics please!

Anybody with fullbody training pics that would like to make a case for “fullbodys superior to splits for bodybuilders”… please post them preceeding this post.

Thank you.

You’re asking him to post pics of himself?

Hmmm…reminds me of another thread.[/quote]
lol yeah… like that’s ever going to happen.

No I’m asking any T-Member to back up this case for fullbodys. Hence the quote “Anybody with fullbody training pics”.

Still waiting for the FIRST PIC to build a case on for the Totalbody horseshit crew…

154

[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
Pics please!

Anybody with fullbody training pics that would like to make a case for “fullbodys superior to splits for bodybuilders”… please post them preceeding this post.

Thank you.

You’re asking him to post pics of himself?

Hmmm…reminds me of another thread.[/quote]

I know why they can’t post any pics. Its because I had to edit the word preceding and replace it with following. My mistake in order. Otherwise, the fullbody pics would be coming in like crazy to make a case that they are superior any day of the week compared to splits. My split trainer physiques I had posted had a combined 23 years of Mr. Olympia titles… and that was just 3 of them. Tough act to follow, I know. But, do your best.

155

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
Avoids Roids wrote:
Gee, and I though “split” routines actually worked the full body. What part do they leave out that the “full body” guys work? Not only do I find out I am wrong on my definitions, I find out that iso’s are only allowed in split routines. Sheeeet. 50 years of work down the tubes in one thread. :frowning:

Back to the real world. Frequency is the debatable point here. How many guys, no matter what you call your workout, work each body part only once per week versus those who hit each BP more than once and how would you rate your level of acheivement…advanced, beginner, not yet started? My ‘guess’ is the pros all opt for more than once per week. Isn’t that one of the reasons that they use huge amounts of steroids? It allows for that through increased protein synthesis.

This could make for an interesting poll but I don’t think the T-Nation forum has the capability to put up polls…or am I mistaken? If I am and I can get some direction, I’ll set one up. Otherwise, perhaps the 3 wisemen at T-Nation will set one up for us? :slight_smile:

To make it more ‘scientific,’ we could even add the ability to post editorial comments like “GHF is a real douchebag”, “Avoids Roids is a closet queen”, “Professor X is really only 135 pounds without his implants” or “ is an asshole with pipe stem arms and secretly yearns for TAChick.” We could probably get more participation that way. :slight_smile:

Captain Morgan is paging me. Play nice will I imbibe.

Your argument sucks! Dont try diversion and distraction, I minored in pyschology. Nice try.

1- Frequency is not the debate here. I believe it was “fullbody vs splits for bodybuilding purposes”… why the change of argument? Will distraction work for the losing side? Maybe. Stay on topic.

2- Not all muscles can be worked with the same frequency and recovery time. This is precisely why I can train my biceps quicker than quads… even with both muscles being full blown to the wall in one workout of maximum intensity, my biceps will recover in 48 hours, and my legs may take 5 days. My calves I can train full blown probably twice a day. So much for your frequency diversion.

Pics please!

Anybody with fullbody training pics that would like to make a case for “fullbodys superior to splits for bodybuilders”… please post them following this post.

Thank you.

[/quote]

I’m not going to go back and read the first page, but,

I don’t remember ‘for bodybuilding purposes’ starting this argument. I Don’t think there is a doubt about that–personally. I thought it was just a general question about preference and the eluding to TBT being the best method in Chad’s quote.

I like splits best. But, I have done TBT and WM and loved them as well. It was a great way to change things up. The workout was very challenging and while at my size/level it is hard to say I gained muscle or whatever from a month long workout, I would tell anyone to try it for themselves.

I appreciate your passion for your game. But now you have tag alongs like Cal law offering nothing but cheap shots at those with a different ideology. Not everyone here wants to be a competitive bb’er. For many, a twice a week full body workout is far superior than anything else that can be put together. And again, I think a serious bb’er or weightlifter or fitness freak can appreciate a program of saomething other than what they do the majority of the time.

156

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
SWR-1240 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
Pics please!

Anybody with fullbody training pics that would like to make a case for “fullbodys superior to splits for bodybuilders”… please post them preceeding this post.

Thank you.

You’re asking him to post pics of himself?

Hmmm…reminds me of another thread.
lol yeah… like that’s ever going to happen.

No I’m asking any T-Member to back up this case for fullbodys. Hence the quote “Anybody with fullbody training pics”.

Still waiting for the FIRST PIC to build a case on for the Totalbody horseshit crew…

[/quote]

But if someone called YOU out to post pics of what split programs did for YOU by asking you to post pics of YOURSELF, you would call them gay for asking you?

157

I stopped reading after page 2…

I can see Chad and Christian sitting back, reading these posts out loud to each other and pissing themselves laughing while chugging beers, or Metabolic Drive…

The horse is dead - leave it.

158

[quote]invnoone wrote:
I stopped reading after page 2…

I can see Chad and Christian sitting back, reading these posts out loud to each other and pissing themselves laughing while chugging beers, or Metabolic Drive…

The horse is dead - leave it.[/quote]

Well, that settles it. Everyone off to bed now.

If this argument dies here today, it will pop up in another thread tomorrow. Why not hash it out here. GHFool made a good point, no experienced lifter is going to be swayed by this argument. It is here for the benefit of the beginner.

Let’s see some full body results, plenty of photos of succesful BB’ers using splits have been posted. Recipes look good on paper, the proof is in the pudding.

159

[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
SWR-1240 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
Pics please!

Anybody with fullbody training pics that would like to make a case for “fullbodys superior to splits for bodybuilders”… please post them preceeding this post.

Thank you.

You’re asking him to post pics of himself?

Hmmm…reminds me of another thread.
lol yeah… like that’s ever going to happen.

No I’m asking any T-Member to back up this case for fullbodys. Hence the quote “Anybody with fullbody training pics”.

Still waiting for the FIRST PIC to build a case on for the Totalbody horseshit crew…

But if someone called YOU out to post pics of what split programs did for YOU by asking you to post pics of YOURSELF, you would call them gay for asking you?[/quote]

No, I posted my pic and it has yet to be challanged. Some argument you guys got on fullbodys… christ they won’t even try to compare to a non steroid/ non-pro average weightlifter like myself. I’m not even trying to compete. If I was PM’ed I might think twice about producing a pic. Who knows with those guys.

Again if anybody has anything to prove… try doing it though some pictures. I’ve seen CT’s pics and they’re pretty impressive. I havn’t seen one TBT pic that is supposed to make me think that it is superior to splits. Anybody even seen a TBT physique and want to tell us about it. Hell… start making up shit, you sure won’t show pics.

160

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
SWR-1240 wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
Pics please!

Anybody with fullbody training pics that would like to make a case for “fullbodys superior to splits for bodybuilders”… please post them preceeding this post.

Thank you.

You’re asking him to post pics of himself?

Hmmm…reminds me of another thread.

I know why they can’t post any pics. Its because I had to edit the word preceding and replace it with following. My mistake in order. Otherwise, the fullbody pics would be coming in like crazy to make a case that they are superior any day of the week compared to splits. My split trainer physiques I had posted had a combined 23 years of Mr. Olympia titles… and that was just 3 of them. Tough act to follow, I know. But, do your best.
[/quote]

I have said before they both work. Post pictures? This is your proof? You posted a picture of a genetic mutant that was pumped full of dianabol. This thread has turned into a circle of personal opinion and mis-information. I hate to say it, this has become a growing trend.

If you have success using one system please post it, that is useful information. You do not have to invalidate and attack another system to prove that what you use is successful.