[quote]ranengin wrote:
Gees, I’m sensing alot of hate from those who have been filled to the brim with the love of Jesus.[/quote]
Who knew you were this thin-skinned? Must have been ‘brainwashed’ like that.
I’m brainwashed. You’re brainwashed. This entire forum is brainwashed. Brainwashed!
Brainwashed.
Got brainwash?
[quote]ranengin wrote:
The vast majority of christians are only christians due to social indoctrination and not because of any rational decision or intelligent thought on their part.
[/quote]
Thanks to valuable contributions from Sloth and Oleena, I’ve amended my position to the above statement.
Please let me know your arguments for or against.
If you care to play along.
Don’t we have this conversation already?
No morality is not a human construct, nor is it relative. For morality to be relative you have to be able to justify evil, not matter how evil it is. Since, nobody is able to do that, it lends credibility to the fact that it is not relative. No matter how hard you try, you can make a wrong, right.
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
The vast majority of christians are only christians due to social indoctrination and not because of any rational decision or intelligent thought on their part.
[/quote]
Thanks to valuable contributions from Sloth and Oleena, I’ve amended my position to the above statement.
Please let me know your arguments for or against.
If you care to play along.[/quote]
I guess we’re all scratching our heads as to the point.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
The vast majority of christians are only christians due to social indoctrination and not because of any rational decision or intelligent thought on their part.
[/quote]
Thanks to valuable contributions from Sloth and Oleena, I’ve amended my position to the above statement.
Please let me know your arguments for or against.
If you care to play along.[/quote]
I guess we’re all scratching our heads as to the point.
[/quote]
The same point of any other thread topic in PWI… to spawn (possibly interesting) discussion
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
The vast majority of christians are only christians due to social indoctrination and not because of any rational decision or intelligent thought on their part.
[/quote]
Thanks to valuable contributions from Sloth and Oleena, I’ve amended my position to the above statement.
Please let me know your arguments for or against.
If you care to play along.[/quote]
I guess we’re all scratching our heads as to the point.
[/quote]
The same point of any other thread topic in PWI… to spawn (possibly interesting) discussion [/quote]
Come on, the point was to call Christians brainwashed. Be brave about it, at least. Then as could only happen, it was pointed out that socialization exists (perhaps completely unavoidable) simply from having a society–parents, teachers, neighbors, media, books, groups and subgroups, and entertainment. The ‘brainwashing’ stuff was meant as a slap, but turned out silly. We don’t even hide it. Sunday school, anyone? Christian organizations? We do what everyone else does, associate and share/pass on values and beliefs.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
The vast majority of christians are only christians due to social indoctrination and not because of any rational decision or intelligent thought on their part.
[/quote]
Thanks to valuable contributions from Sloth and Oleena, I’ve amended my position to the above statement.
Please let me know your arguments for or against.
If you care to play along.[/quote]
I guess we’re all scratching our heads as to the point.
[/quote]
The same point of any other thread topic in PWI… to spawn (possibly interesting) discussion [/quote]
Come on, the point was to call Christians brainwashed. Be brave about it, at least. Then as could only happen, it was pointed out that socialization exists (perhaps completely unavoidable) simply from having a society–parents, teachers, neighbors, media, books, groups and subgroups, and entertainment. The ‘brainwashing’ stuff was meant as a slap, but turned out silly. We don’t even hide it. Sunday school, anyone? Christian organizations? We do what everyone else does, associate and share/pass on values and beliefs.[/quote]
Actually the point I was hoping people would catch onto is that morals are culturally based and not objective. People are clearly a product of their environment and experiences.
Pat caught onto this, most others did not.
[quote]pat wrote:
Don’t we have this conversation already?
No morality is not a human construct, nor is it relative. For morality to be relative you have to be able to justify evil, not matter how evil it is. Since, nobody is able to do that, it lends credibility to the fact that it is not relative. No matter how hard you try, you can make a wrong, right.[/quote]
In your opinion, what is the source of morality and why do you believe it to be?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Possible I would’ve been a slave owner if I had been born to a plantation owner, too. [/quote]
Case in point.
You admit that your morals would be different if you had been socially indoctrinated into a different setting than you were.
[quote]pat wrote:
Don’t we have this conversation already?
No morality is not a human construct, nor is it relative. For morality to be relative you have to be able to justify evil, not matter how evil it is. Since, nobody is able to do that, it lends credibility to the fact that it is not relative. No matter how hard you try, you can make a wrong, right.[/quote]
Why do we have to be able to justify evil? And in our history people have justified it, we just disagree with them which is kind of the whole point to it being relative.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Don’t we have this conversation already?
No morality is not a human construct, nor is it relative. For morality to be relative you have to be able to justify evil, not matter how evil it is. Since, nobody is able to do that, it lends credibility to the fact that it is not relative. No matter how hard you try, you can make a wrong, right.[/quote]
Why do we have to be able to justify evil? And in our history people have justified it, we just disagree with them which is kind of the whole point to it being relative.[/quote]
If you are claiming moral relativism, you necessarily have to prove that what is intrinsically evil, can be construed as not evil depending on the humanity your dealing with.
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
The vast majority of christians are only christians due to social indoctrination and not because of any rational decision or intelligent thought on their part.
[/quote]
Thanks to valuable contributions from Sloth and Oleena, I’ve amended my position to the above statement.
Please let me know your arguments for or against.
If you care to play along.[/quote]
I guess we’re all scratching our heads as to the point.
[/quote]
The same point of any other thread topic in PWI… to spawn (possibly interesting) discussion [/quote]
Come on, the point was to call Christians brainwashed. Be brave about it, at least. Then as could only happen, it was pointed out that socialization exists (perhaps completely unavoidable) simply from having a society–parents, teachers, neighbors, media, books, groups and subgroups, and entertainment. The ‘brainwashing’ stuff was meant as a slap, but turned out silly. We don’t even hide it. Sunday school, anyone? Christian organizations? We do what everyone else does, associate and share/pass on values and beliefs.[/quote]
Actually the point I was hoping people would catch onto is that morals are culturally based and not objective. People are clearly a product of their environment and experiences.
Pat caught onto this, most others did not.
[/quote]
I also caught on to the fact that this is an alter ego and you typically run under another moniker. Further, you ain’t Catholic.
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Possible I would’ve been a slave owner if I had been born to a plantation owner, too. [/quote]
Case in point.
You admit that your morals would be different if you had been socially indoctrinated into a different setting than you were.[/quote]
Most likely, for the both us. Which is why Christians (well, most people, actually) actually raise their kids instead of simply making sure they get three square meals. This is why we do missionary work, instead of just expecting the entire world to be self-evidently Christian.
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Actually the point I was hoping people would catch onto is that morals are culturally based and not objective. People are clearly a product of their environment and experiences.
Pat caught onto this, most others did not.
[/quote]
Human ‘morals’ are. God’s are his own.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
The vast majority of christians are only christians due to social indoctrination and not because of any rational decision or intelligent thought on their part.
[/quote]
Thanks to valuable contributions from Sloth and Oleena, I’ve amended my position to the above statement.
Please let me know your arguments for or against.
If you care to play along.[/quote]
I guess we’re all scratching our heads as to the point.
[/quote]
The same point of any other thread topic in PWI… to spawn (possibly interesting) discussion [/quote]
Come on, the point was to call Christians brainwashed. Be brave about it, at least. Then as could only happen, it was pointed out that socialization exists (perhaps completely unavoidable) simply from having a society–parents, teachers, neighbors, media, books, groups and subgroups, and entertainment. The ‘brainwashing’ stuff was meant as a slap, but turned out silly. We don’t even hide it. Sunday school, anyone? Christian organizations? We do what everyone else does, associate and share/pass on values and beliefs.[/quote]
Actually the point I was hoping people would catch onto is that morals are culturally based and not objective. People are clearly a product of their environment and experiences.
Pat caught onto this, most others did not.
[/quote]
I also caught on to the fact that this is an alter ego and you typically run under another moniker. Further, you ain’t Catholic.[/quote]
Well Sherlock… then I bet you’ve also figured out that I’m not really an atheist either.
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Actually the point I was hoping people would catch onto is that morals are culturally based and not objective. People are clearly a product of their environment and experiences.
Pat caught onto this, most others did not.
[/quote]
And no, your point wasn’t anything that well thought out. Your point was that Christians are ‘brainwashed,’ before realizing that even you are ‘brainwashed’.
Now it’s about social indoctrination (as if it was inherently negative) after the near universality of ‘brainwashing,’ per yer definition, was pointed out.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Don’t we have this conversation already?
No morality is not a human construct, nor is it relative. For morality to be relative you have to be able to justify evil, not matter how evil it is. Since, nobody is able to do that, it lends credibility to the fact that it is not relative. No matter how hard you try, you can make a wrong, right.[/quote]
In your opinion, what is the source of morality and why do you believe it to be?[/quote]
That’s a broad question isn’t it? I know what you want me to say, but I don’t have to say that because of what morality is.
Morality has 3 basic conditions:
Morality comes from ability to choose good or evil, but not they are not mutually exclusive.
Because ‘good’ and ‘evil’ are metaethical principles that exist beyond the constraints of our limited epistemology, it is there for necessary that the ability to choose and act between the 2, exist beyond our abilities. We cannot make a bad thing good and a good thing bad.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I’d like the OP to tell us just where his internal moral compass comes from. No fair borrowing now from thousands of years of Western religious and philosophical thought. I want to know how a thinking man such as yourself develops his own fully formed internal moral system from the top of an ivory tower in the middle of the ocean on an island of self. [/quote]
I get my morals from an understanding of reality, not an assertion of authority.
[/quote]
What do you understand about reality?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ranengin wrote:
Actually the point I was hoping people would catch onto is that morals are culturally based and not objective. People are clearly a product of their environment and experiences.
Pat caught onto this, most others did not.
[/quote]
Human ‘morals’ are. God’s are his own.[/quote]
Agreed.