[quote]Chicken4Dinner wrote:
That’s up to the trainee to determine.[/quote]
It is? If it’s really up to the trainee then why are you telling them what they should do? A little hypocritical aren’t you?
Did you actually read this thread at all? I mean even one post past the very first one? There are guys on here who are eating 5000 calories a day and LOSING weight. I know a guy I work with who is 6’-1", weighs 145lbs and he eats almost 6,000 calories a day and DOES NOT GAIN WEIGHT. There are people like that in the world. Now sure he could be over-estimating his food intake, but you don’t look at 2,000 calories and think it is 6,000. If you overestimate it’s by maybe 500-1000 max. Bulking slowly while worrying about fat gain is a sure fire way for it to take 10 years to add 10 lbs for these guys, if ever. Most of the time they make no progress at all and just give up.
Now I’m like you. Anymore than say 3000 calories and I gain fat. Easily. But you need to have the ability to see the other side before you ever bother posting advice on this board again.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Chicken4Dinner wrote:
That’s up to the trainee to determine.
It is? If it’s really up to the trainee then why are you telling them what they should do? A little hypocritical aren’t you?
I personally think it’s a better idea to stay at a lower body fat % when bulking (sacrificing some muscle gain) instead of seeing over-the-top weight gain.
Did you actually read this thread at all? I mean even one post past the very first one? There are guys on here who are eating 5000 calories a day and LOSING weight. I know a guy I work with who is 6’-1", weighs 145lbs and he eats almost 6,000 calories a day and DOES NOT GAIN WEIGHT. There are people like that in the world. Now sure he could be over-estimating his food intake, but you don’t look at 2,000 calories and think it is 6,000. If you overestimate it’s by maybe 500-1000 max. Bulking slowly while worrying about fat gain is a sure fire way for it to take 10 years to add 10 lbs for these guys, if ever. Most of the time they make no progress at all and just give up.
Now I’m like you. Anymore than say 3000 calories and I gain fat. Easily. But you need to have the ability to see the other side before you ever bother posting advice on this board again. [/quote]
I’m not telling them what to do, I’m giving them my opinion on the subject matter…hence why i said it’s up to them to decide, and i personally do it differently. I’m not imposing my will here, just trying to give valuable information.
My Rmr is 2200 cals a day. Like the other guy said I would lose weight and never get bigger if i ate like you recommended. No one is saying to get fat dude. Every person on this thread is not a FFB. Right now my bf is the same as it was 2 months ago, and I have put on around 10 pounds. Is that too fat?
And dont say valuable information, there are newbies reading this thread and if anyone of them takes your advice of 2000 cals a day they are destined for failure, if they are a hardgainer. Now I am off to down some peanut butter and whole milk.
again, I’m not suggesting people eat 2,000 cals a day. If you read my post you would have realized this. The 2,000 calories a day is what my diet consists of now to lose the excessive weight from all this same “bulking advice” i read about and followed when I started training. When i start bulking again you can bet that i will be eating more than that.
[quote]Chicken4Dinner wrote:
again, I’m not suggesting people eat 2,000 cals a day. If you read my post you would have realized this. The 2,000 calories a day is what my diet consists of now to lose the excessive weight from all this same “bulking advice” i read about and followed when I started training. When i start bulking again you can bet that i will be eating more than that.[/quote]
[quote]Chicken4Dinner wrote:
again, I’m not suggesting people eat 2,000 cals a day. If you read my post you would have realized this. The 2,000 calories a day is what my diet consists of now to lose the excessive weight from all this same “bulking advice” i read about and followed when I started training. When i start bulking again you can bet that i will be eating more than that.[/quote]
Did you fucking miss my post where I said I still have a six pack? Who the hell is advising people to get fat? If you got really fat, good job screwing up your diet and training like a wuss. Go away.
the point is to gain muscle…if that happens on 2000 or 8000 calories a day who cares? figure out what is right for you and then do it. sometimes it takes a while to figure out what works for you. i am newb and i’ve been training for 1.5 years and i’m starting to realize from this thread and the bodybuilder bunker that at my age height and weight which are 21, 5’9", 170 respectively, I should probably be trying to gain muscle eating lots of clean food and training hard (i’m a FFB), rather than cutting to 160 on a keto diet like i’m currently doing. so…chicken4dinner, if someone needs whole milk and donuts to grow, so be it. they can worry about health when they have gained the weight they want to gain. sometimes you gotta sacrifice certain things to get what you want and you gotta weigh the risk/benefit ratio.
Now I’m like you. Anymore than say 3000 calories and I gain fat. Easily. But you need to have the ability to see the other side before you ever bother posting advice on this board again. [/quote]
I am an ectomorph with a fast metabolism and a small appetite.
I finally decided to accept fat gain and for the first time in 15 years I gained 14 pounds in 6 weeks, 4-5 being fat. You HAVE to accept fat if you want to SEE progress in a reasonable timeline.
How much did I have to eat to finally start growing? 4000-4500 calories a day for me, not a pleasant experience for me but now I know what to do next fall.
I would say most individual who are over 180 won’t gain anything on 3000 calories a day if they have a solid work out program.
Gaining muscle is a purely hormonal occurrence. You cannot force feed yourself like an animal to gain muscle. Eat good food in moderation, get all your vitamins in especially natural Vitamin A (Good quality cod liver oil)SLEEP and train like a beast; hard and intense.
I am sure people here will doubt this but you will go around in circles until you realize this.
Oh and don’t be afraid of saturated fat, take ZMA and go out have and live life.
[quote]shadowmoses wrote:
Gaining muscle is a purely hormonal occurrence. ShadoW[/quote]
Incorrect. In fact, it is still in debate all of the biological factors that actually lead to muscle growth in all cases even though there is no debate about resistance training and a caloric surplus being primary factors in the instigation of it. If it were purely a hormonal response, micro-muscle tears would not be part of the instigation process unless by “hormonal” you are also including the repair response.
You must force muscle growth in many cases, especially past the point of the initial gains seen as a beginner. That would include heavier and heavier weights for resistance and the supplying of more food than your body needs for maintenance of body weight.
Anyone who has been lifting for longer than 5 years can attest to this. Your body does not want to gain LARGE amounts of muscle mass. Forcing it to do so is exactly what is needed in and past the intermediate stage.
[quote]Blashy wrote:
I would say most individual who are over 180 won’t gain anything on 3000 calories a day if they have a solid work out program.[/quote]
Not necessarily. Having a solid workout program doesn’t mean shit if you’re an endo with an extremely slow metabolism (and diabetic to top it off). You said you gained 14lbs in 6 weeks. I could gain that in a week. All fat of course, but still most people can’t do that or eat that much. They just aren’t capable.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
Gaining muscle is a purely hormonal occurrence. ShadoW
You must force muscle growth in many cases, especially past the point of the initial gains seen as a beginner. That would include heavier and heavier weights for resistance and the supplying of more food than your body needs for maintenance of body weight.
Anyone who has been lifting for longer than 5 years can attest to this. Your body does not want to gain LARGE amounts of muscle mass. Forcing it to do so is exactly what is needed in and past the intermediate stage.[/quote]
Good points X. The main point I am trying to put forward is that people should never force feed themselves and become fat beasts in order to gain muscle. They should first try and optimize their hormonal balance through food and supplements.
Getting stronger is another thing that should be actively pursued.
[quote]shadowmoses wrote:
Professor X wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
Gaining muscle is a purely hormonal occurrence. ShadoW
You must force muscle growth in many cases, especially past the point of the initial gains seen as a beginner. That would include heavier and heavier weights for resistance and the supplying of more food than your body needs for maintenance of body weight.
Anyone who has been lifting for longer than 5 years can attest to this. Your body does not want to gain LARGE amounts of muscle mass. Forcing it to do so is exactly what is needed in and past the intermediate stage.
Good points X. The main point I am trying to put forward is that people should never force feed themselves and become fat beasts in order to gain muscle. They should first try and optimize their hormonal balance through food and supplements.
Getting stronger is another thing that should be actively pursued.[/quote]
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
Professor X wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
Gaining muscle is a purely hormonal occurrence. ShadoW
You must force muscle growth in many cases, especially past the point of the initial gains seen as a beginner. That would include heavier and heavier weights for resistance and the supplying of more food than your body needs for maintenance of body weight.
Anyone who has been lifting for longer than 5 years can attest to this. Your body does not want to gain LARGE amounts of muscle mass. Forcing it to do so is exactly what is needed in and past the intermediate stage.
Good points X. The main point I am trying to put forward is that people should never force feed themselves and become fat beasts in order to gain muscle. They should first try and optimize their hormonal balance through food and supplements.
Getting stronger is another thing that should be actively pursued.
Why would anyone want functional muscle?[/quote]
No mention of functional muscle, but there are many reasons why some people would prefer it over pure bulk. Maybe athletes making a weight and people not after a bulky look and need to perform.
[quote]shadowmoses wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
Professor X wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
Gaining muscle is a purely hormonal occurrence. ShadoW
You must force muscle growth in many cases, especially past the point of the initial gains seen as a beginner. That would include heavier and heavier weights for resistance and the supplying of more food than your body needs for maintenance of body weight.
Anyone who has been lifting for longer than 5 years can attest to this. Your body does not want to gain LARGE amounts of muscle mass. Forcing it to do so is exactly what is needed in and past the intermediate stage.
Good points X. The main point I am trying to put forward is that people should never force feed themselves and become fat beasts in order to gain muscle. They should first try and optimize their hormonal balance through food and supplements.
Getting stronger is another thing that should be actively pursued.
Why would anyone want functional muscle?
No mention of functional muscle, but there are many reasons why some people would prefer it over pure bulk. Maybe athletes making a weight and people not after a bulky look and need to perform.
Now I’m like you. Anymore than say 3000 calories and I gain fat. Easily. But you need to have the ability to see the other side before you ever bother posting advice on this board again.
I am an ectomorph with a fast metabolism and a small appetite.
I finally decided to accept fat gain and for the first time in 15 years I gained 14 pounds in 6 weeks, 4-5 being fat. You HAVE to accept fat if you want to SEE progress in a reasonable timeline.
How much did I have to eat to finally start growing? 4000-4500 calories a day for me, not a pleasant experience for me but now I know what to do next fall.
I would say most individual who are over 180 won’t gain anything on 3000 calories a day if they have a solid work out program.[/quote]
[quote]shadowmoses wrote:
Professor X wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
Gaining muscle is a purely hormonal occurrence. ShadoW
You must force muscle growth in many cases, especially past the point of the initial gains seen as a beginner. That would include heavier and heavier weights for resistance and the supplying of more food than your body needs for maintenance of body weight.
Anyone who has been lifting for longer than 5 years can attest to this. Your body does not want to gain LARGE amounts of muscle mass. Forcing it to do so is exactly what is needed in and past the intermediate stage.
Good points X. The main point I am trying to put forward is that people should never force feed themselves and become fat beasts in order to gain muscle. They should first try and optimize their hormonal balance through food and supplements.
Getting stronger is another thing that should be actively pursued.[/quote]
“Forcefeeding” and “becoming a fat beast” do not go hand in hand.
I think some people are just scared by the word “bulk”.
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
Professor X wrote:
shadowmoses wrote:
Gaining muscle is a purely hormonal occurrence. ShadoW
You must force muscle growth in many cases, especially past the point of the initial gains seen as a beginner. That would include heavier and heavier weights for resistance and the supplying of more food than your body needs for maintenance of body weight.
Anyone who has been lifting for longer than 5 years can attest to this. Your body does not want to gain LARGE amounts of muscle mass. Forcing it to do so is exactly what is needed in and past the intermediate stage.
Good points X. The main point I am trying to put forward is that people should never force feed themselves and become fat beasts in order to gain muscle. They should first try and optimize their hormonal balance through food and supplements.
Getting stronger is another thing that should be actively pursued.
“Forcefeeding” and “becoming a fat beast” do not go hand in hand.
I think some people are just scared by the word “bulk”.
[/quote]
That bears repeating. I am actually tired of it coming up so much and am convinced most of the people jumping to that conclusion haven’t built much size at all.
“Forcefeeding” and “becoming a fat beast” do not go hand in hand.
I think some people are just scared by the word “bulk”.
That bears repeating. I am actually tired of it coming up so much and am convinced most of the people jumping to that conclusion haven’t built much size at all.[/quote]
It will not ever end. Face it and embrace it my friend LOL. It won’t matter how many times or ways it’s said. If we had a Dr. Seuss book spelling this out, posted as a sticky in every forum and made required reading before membership was allowed I’m convinced it would make no difference.
[quote]Dr. Seuss writes:
Instead of starting another thread,
Listen up it’s all been said.
Having trouble gaining mass?
You need more food you stupid ass.
And if you start to get too fat,
A little less, how hard is that?
But it won’t matter what we say,
You’ll starve yourself anyway.
So after years of being small,
but still convinced you know it all,
Please come back, don’t be late,
And argue some more, we cannot wait.
[/quote]