You Are NOT Overtraining

Training
41

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]solidkhalid wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]tveddy wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
I see a lot of “eat more” type advice in here to overcome overtraining. What would you guys suggest to do during a cut when overtraining symptoms are occurring? Eating more is not an option at that point.[/quote]

eat more lean protein.[/quote]

And if I eat more protein, where should I remove calories from to equal total calorie consumption out? I would be unable to raise calories, so eating more protein will mean that I have to remove calories from either carbs or fats.
[/quote]

I’m glad you read this post… it partially explains why I don’t believe in your overtraining system.

You seem like you want to portray yourself as some kind of expert on things, so I’m confused why your worried about calories in vs calories out? Thats a very basic weight loss theory that simply doesn’t work for bodybuilders and athletes. A calorie of protein does not hold the same value of a calorie of carb or protein.

Be well.[/quote]

Are trying to tell me that if I’m eating in a calorie surplus, and my surplus calories are coming from protein, that I’ll be able to keep losing fat consistently? It sounds like you are recommending a calorie surplus of protein for an effective cut. Is that the case? If it’s not the case, I’m not sure what you’re getting at with your post then…[/quote]

Doooood don’t you know protein nullifies the laws of thermodynamics!

42

[quote]Think tank fish wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]solidkhalid wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]tveddy wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
I see a lot of “eat more” type advice in here to overcome overtraining. What would you guys suggest to do during a cut when overtraining symptoms are occurring? Eating more is not an option at that point.[/quote]

eat more lean protein.[/quote]

And if I eat more protein, where should I remove calories from to equal total calorie consumption out? I would be unable to raise calories, so eating more protein will mean that I have to remove calories from either carbs or fats.
[/quote]

I’m glad you read this post… it partially explains why I don’t believe in your overtraining system.

You seem like you want to portray yourself as some kind of expert on things, so I’m confused why your worried about calories in vs calories out? Thats a very basic weight loss theory that simply doesn’t work for bodybuilders and athletes. A calorie of protein does not hold the same value of a calorie of carb or protein.

Be well.[/quote]

Are trying to tell me that if I’m eating in a calorie surplus, and my surplus calories are coming from protein, that I’ll be able to keep losing fat consistently? It sounds like you are recommending a calorie surplus of protein for an effective cut. Is that the case? If it’s not the case, I’m not sure what you’re getting at with your post then…[/quote]

Doooood don’t you know protein nullifies the laws of thermodynamics![/quote]

Oh ya, I forgot, lol. Brb, eating an extra 5lbs of chicken breast everyday and not gaining weight. Brb, intaking more than I expend every day and not gaining weight because all I’m eating is protein. Gimme a break…

Great first post above btw!

43

I think if you know your recovered before you hit the same muscle again youl be ok. If you over reach you dont really know your body that well

44

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:

I think the larger issue here is that people feel tired on Thursday and Friday, their arms are sore, and start thinking they are over trained, when in reality it takes a phenomenal effort to get over trained.

[/quote]

Hafta disagree, in a way. Most Americans pretend they don’t need sleep, and so are in an overtrained state BEFORE beginning a progressive weight-lifitng program.

Even if only marginally meeting sleep needs, especially if working M-F, then “catching up on sleep” on the weekend. Someone doing that will absolutely be entering the overtrained state on Th or F, just like you described.

Some will say “That’s obv.” But it’s obviously not obvious to many, many people.
[/quote]

So by not training at all they are in fact overtraining?[/quote]

45

[quote]Think tank fish wrote:
This is such a silly thread!

Bodybuildings latest fad is “You can’t train too much”. Of course you bloody can!

Most people can probably push their recovery a lot more than they do. But there’s also a lot of newbs lately who weigh a buck nothing and think they need to train twice a day six days a week to make optimal progress.

YOU DONT!

Advanced lifters probably do. But this all feeds into the paranoia skinny newbs have where they always want to be in the gym. Of course it doesn’t hurt supplement sales either cause you’ll need more supps to recover from them workouts.

I’ve been doing this long enough to see these fads come and go. The best path is always down the middle.

Stimulate, Don’t Annihilate.
[/quote]

Exactly what I was saying.

Did I make more progress when I trained much more frequently (aka more volume) and ate/slept for it?

No! I gained fat, with little to no muscle gains and got weaker.

Why should I eat 7000+ calories a day, train 6+ days per week and get less gains (plus more fat) vs. eating 6000 cals/day and training less?

I had people that were much weaker/fatter/smaller than me tell me that I’m a lazy slacker and didn’t take bodybuilding seriously just because I was in the gym 3-4 times a week vs. 5-7 times a week, and because I “only” did 6-8 sets per bodypart.

LOL

46

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:

[quote]tveddy wrote:

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
I see a lot of “eat more” type advice in here to overcome overtraining. What would you guys suggest to do during a cut when overtraining symptoms are occurring? Eating more is not an option at that point.[/quote]

eat more lean protein.[/quote]

And if I eat more protein, where should I remove calories from to equal total calorie consumption out? I would be unable to raise calories, so eating more protein will mean that I have to remove calories from either carbs or fats.
[/quote]

Yes. Cut fat and carbs and eat more lean protein. You might accidentally stumble down the right path yet…

47

[quote]Think tank fish wrote:
This is such a silly thread!

Bodybuildings latest fad is “You can’t train too much”. Of course you bloody can!

Most people can probably push their recovery a lot more than they do. But there’s also a lot of newbs lately who weigh a buck nothing and think they need to train twice a day six days a week to make optimal progress.

YOU DONT!

Advanced lifters probably do. But this all feeds into the paranoia skinny newbs have where they always want to be in the gym. Of course it doesn’t hurt supplement sales either cause you’ll need more supps to recover from them workouts.

I’ve been doing this long enough to see these fads come and go. The best path is always down the middle.

Stimulate, Don’t Annihilate.
[/quote]

The reason it has become such a theme is that every limp dick in the gym seems to think that a moderate to light lifting routine is going to overtrain them but they haven’t thought about sleep and diet. The simple fact is that people overestimate the work that they do in the gym, and every frat kid with XXM tshirt thinks they work hard enough to overtrain. Seems like the word overtrain is in style. Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder but dont no body wanna lift no heavy ass weight.

48

Agreed. I think the actual condition of overtraining is extremely rare, except in the best athletes. It also certainly has nothing to do with the CNS.

49

I think overtraining doesn’t really have to do with how much you train but how you train. Let’s say someone works out 3x a day everyday,
Session 1: HFSW
Session 2: Compounds
Session 3: Isolation
and in each of those session he follows CT’s principles of stopping when “you can’t dominate a weight” and autoregulates. He’ll most likely not overtrain since he’s not hitting his CNS that hard.

Let’s say another person works out 3x a week and in each session he does full body. and in each lift he goes to failure, does rest pause and drop sets until his spleen explodes. He’ll most likely feel like shit even though he’s working 7x less than the guy in the first example.

If you get overtrained, that means you didn’t know how to regulate volume, intensity and frequency.

50

I doubt either would overtrain by only lifting 3x a week though. Lifting dumb is not synonymous with overtraining.

51

[quote]tveddy wrote:
I doubt either would overtrain by only lifting 3x a week though. Lifting dumb is not synonymous with overtraining.[/quote]

You’d be surprised how many people who complain of overtraining lift dumb.

For example most of my friends who work out complain of being overtrained when in reality they just lift dumb.

Example: work up to max in bench press for a half rep then do 20 more forced reps 3x a week.

52

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

[quote]tveddy wrote:
I doubt either would overtrain by only lifting 3x a week though. Lifting dumb is not synonymous with overtraining.[/quote]

You’d be surprised how many people who complain of overtraining lift dumb.

For example most of my friends who work out complain of being overtrained when in reality they just lift dumb.

Example: work up to max in bench press for a half rep then do 20 more forced reps 3x a week.[/quote]

At one time when I had knee surgery I was benching 4x a week with volume in the 30’s at 90% and up. I solved the feeling crappy (not overtraining) by eating more protein and drinking a bottle of fish oil a week. It got me a double BW bench. Therefore I have come to believe that overtraining is like the mythical rhabdo that everyone talks about but noone ever truly reaches

53

The only time I’ve ever truly felt “over-trained” was the first time I used a sledge hammer for over 8 hours with a 20pound vest. I felt fine when I went to sleep, but I woke up in the middle of the night and felt so messed up I ended up puking a couple times, but the next time I tried it I felt fine. aha.

Awesome post there’s very little a human can’t adapt too.

54

[quote]tveddy wrote:

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

[quote]tveddy wrote:
I doubt either would overtrain by only lifting 3x a week though. Lifting dumb is not synonymous with overtraining.[/quote]

You’d be surprised how many people who complain of overtraining lift dumb.

For example most of my friends who work out complain of being overtrained when in reality they just lift dumb.

Example: work up to max in bench press for a half rep then do 20 more forced reps 3x a week.[/quote]

At one time when I had knee surgery I was benching 4x a week with volume in the 30’s at 90% and up. I solved the feeling crappy (not overtraining) by eating more protein and drinking a bottle of fish oil a week. It got me a double BW bench. Therefore I have come to believe that overtraining is like the mythical rhabdo that everyone talks about but noone ever truly reaches[/quote]

Awesome. Please post exactly what you did to get a 2x bodyweight bench in what sounds like a pretty quick period of time. Before/after pics appreciated if you’ve got 'em.

Good Stuff!

55

[quote]tveddy wrote:

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:

[quote]tveddy wrote:
I doubt either would overtrain by only lifting 3x a week though. Lifting dumb is not synonymous with overtraining.[/quote]

You’d be surprised how many people who complain of overtraining lift dumb.

For example most of my friends who work out complain of being overtrained when in reality they just lift dumb.

Example: work up to max in bench press for a half rep then do 20 more forced reps 3x a week.[/quote]

At one time when I had knee surgery I was benching 4x a week with volume in the 30’s at 90% and up. I solved the feeling crappy (not overtraining) by eating more protein and drinking a bottle of fish oil a week. It got me a double BW bench. Therefore I have come to believe that overtraining is like the mythical rhabdo that everyone talks about but noone ever truly reaches[/quote]

Nice Progress!
and i agree, real overtraining is very hard to reach.
but overreaching is easy if you don’t train smart, and 99% of the people who complain of overtraining are actually just overreaching.

56

[quote]skiracer wrote:

Awesome. Please post exactly what you did to get a 2x bodyweight bench in what sounds like a pretty quick period of time. Before/after pics appreciated if you’ve got 'em.

Good Stuff![/quote]

That was 5 yrs ago, I’m trying to get back to it again.

57

I need two days a week off, or I usually start getting flu-like symptoms. If I train anyway, my workout sucks that day, and I get sick. I actually get better results with 3 days off, or 2 off days and 1 light day.

I get plenty of sleep and food and supplements. Never been a problem.

So now we have a new term “over reaching” and not “over training”? Allrighty then.

This thread is stupid. There are many people who cannot train balls-out, almost every day, without chemical assistance. If all you needed to do was eat a shitload of food, get lots of sleep, and train your ass off every day, America would be swarming with hundreds of thousands of guys who are jacked beyond belief. It’s genetics that limit most guys, not their will or motivation. Most people have average genetics, and it’s stupid to browbeat them that they need to train more often/more harder (instead of program some off days, or light days).

If you can’t imagine somebody actually over training (oops I mean “overreaching”… what a fucking stupid distinction) then maybe your own intensity in the gym sucks? Or maybe you’re genetically gifted. Realistically, I was never a great athlete outside the weight room. Training has helped that. But I know from personal experience that it’s very possible FOR ME to train too hard/too often.

Next thread: “I don’t have peanut allergies (so there’s no such thing)”?

58

[quote]K2000 wrote:
I need two days a week off, or I usually start getting flu-like symptoms. If I train anyway, my workout sucks that day, and I get sick. I actually get better results with 3 days off, or 2 off days and 1 light day.

I get plenty of sleep and food and supplements. Never been a problem.

So now we have a new term “over reaching” and not “over training”? Allrighty then.

This thread is stupid. There are many people who cannot train balls-out, almost every day, without chemical assistance. If all you needed to do was eat a shitload of food, get lots of sleep, and train your ass off every day, America would be swarming with hundreds of thousands of guys who are jacked beyond belief. It’s genetics that limit most guys, not their will or motivation. Most people have average genetics, and it’s stupid to browbeat them that they need to train more often/more harder (instead of program some off days, or light days).

If you can’t imagine somebody actually over training (oops I mean “overreaching”… what a fucking stupid distinction) then maybe your own intensity in the gym sucks? Or maybe you’re genetically gifted. Realistically, I was never a great athlete outside the weight room. Training has helped that. But I know from personal experience that it’s very possible FOR ME to train too hard/too often.

Next thread: “I don’t have peanut allergies (so there’s no such thing)”?[/quote]

Yes if ALL it took was just training BALLS TO THE WALLs EVERY DAY resting and eating a ton was ALL it took there would be more people jacked than now. Yes that makes tons of sense since the majority of people can barely half ass it in the gym 3 days a week. If there was no overtraiing all of a sudden they would put forth more effort. Bull shit. What a stupid post.

59

[quote]K2000 wrote:
I need two days a week off, or I usually start getting flu-like symptoms. If I train anyway, my workout sucks that day, and I get sick. I actually get better results with 3 days off, or 2 off days and 1 light day.

I get plenty of sleep and food and supplements. Never been a problem.

So now we have a new term “over reaching” and not “over training”? Allrighty then.

This thread is stupid. There are many people who cannot train balls-out, almost every day, without chemical assistance. If all you needed to do was eat a shitload of food, get lots of sleep, and train your ass off every day, America would be swarming with hundreds of thousands of guys who are jacked beyond belief. It’s genetics that limit most guys, not their will or motivation. Most people have average genetics, and it’s stupid to browbeat them that they need to train more often/more harder (instead of program some off days, or light days).

If you can’t imagine somebody actually over training (oops I mean “overreaching”… what a fucking stupid distinction) then maybe your own intensity in the gym sucks? Or maybe you’re genetically gifted. Realistically, I was never a great athlete outside the weight room. Training has helped that. But I know from personal experience that it’s very possible FOR ME to train too hard/too often.

Next thread: “I don’t have peanut allergies (so there’s no such thing)”?[/quote]

You must either

a)not have been training that long

or

b)no one else trains at your gym

or

c)you train with some awesome folks.

I’ve been to plenty of gyms all around the country and can honestly say (and I’m repeating myself here) that at least 90% of people I’ve seen in these gyms and half assing it on a regular basis.

Your point would make sense if it was the other way around.

As Dave Tate would say…

“Fuckin’, get fucked!”

60

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
I used a sledge hammer for over 8 hours with a 20pound vest. [/quote]

Good god, what were you doing?

So the point of this thread is that people are ill-educated as to the appropriate use of the phrase “over trained”? Not really big news people are generally stupid.

I had quite a few of the symptoms listed towards the end of DC blasts, I’m not too interested in whether I was “over trained” or “over reached” - I just knew I needed a couple of weeks away from the weights.