good point
Rich666 thanks for injecting some decent vocabulary into an otherwise asinine thread.
I believe that the main part of any combat sport that differs from a fight in reality is that in a sport, your goal is to win. Usually, this can be accomplished in a variety of ways, but not entirely limited to incapacitating the other fighter. In a real fight, success is dependent on your ability to quickly and effectively incapacitate or otherwise neutralize the other fighter, using whatever means necessary, and then get away before his friends do the same to you.
Neutralizing an opponent can be done in a variety of ways. I am neither a bouncer nor a cop, so anyone with experience please correct me but isn’t allowing your opponent to engage in a fight as a bouncer or cop destroying your psychological advantage over them, and thereby costing you half of your power. The one time I’ve been hassled by a bouncer so far ended with him calling his other 300lb friend over, and they both backed me into a corner and convinced me that leaving was the smart decision. In this match, the bouncer won the fight without even throwing a punch. Though I do believe he would have won if I was too drunk to think properly.
I personally don’t train MMA with the intention of using much of it in an actual fight, but I do see how it can be used (particularly the level of aggression that comes with Muay Thai training) in a street fight, at least some of it. The best training for a street altercation, however, is the ability to draw use a weapon (gun, blade, whatever), quickly and effectively, but also to be responsible in the use of the weapon (probably better to walk away from a potential fight rather than wave your gun around like you are the big dick in the room).
[quote]grayman19 wrote:
I believe that the main part of any combat sport that differs from a fight in reality is that in a sport, your goal is to win. Usually, this can be accomplished in a variety of ways, but not entirely limited to incapacitating the other fighter. In a real fight, success is dependent on your ability to quickly and effectively incapacitate or otherwise neutralize the other fighter, using whatever means necessary, and then get away before his friends do the same to you.
Neutralizing an opponent can be done in a variety of ways. I am neither a bouncer nor a cop, so anyone with experience please correct me but isn’t allowing your opponent to engage in a fight as a bouncer or cop destroying your psychological advantage over them, and thereby costing you half of your power. The one time I’ve been hassled by a bouncer so far ended with him calling his other 300lb friend over, and they both backed me into a corner and convinced me that leaving was the smart decision. In this match, the bouncer won the fight without even throwing a punch. Though I do believe he would have won if I was too drunk to think properly.
I personally don’t train MMA with the intention of using much of it in an actual fight, but I do see how it can be used (particularly the level of aggression that comes with Muay Thai training) in a street fight, at least some of it. The best training for a street altercation, however, is the ability to draw use a weapon (gun, blade, whatever), quickly and effectively, but also to be responsible in the use of the weapon (probably better to walk away from a potential fight rather than wave your gun around like you are the big dick in the room).
[/quote]
I don’t really disagree with anything that you said. Yes, sport fighting and real fighting are very different contextually and the goals/time frames can differ significantly as well.
Actually though, the best training for a street altercation is:
-
Avoidance- being smart enough not to put yourself in potentially hazardous situations in the first place if possible
-
Aversion (de-escalation/diffusion)- getting good at talking your way out of potentially bad situations before they get physical
If you have to resort to physical violence then it’s best to use whatever tool is most appropriate and accessible to incapacitate the attacker as quickly as possible. If that’s a weapon like a gun or knife then great, those can be very effective tools. But it’s a bad idea to get fixated on those weapons or to become overly reliant on them. That can result in what we call “tactical tunnelvision” and cause you to miss other potentially more appropriate options.
Therefore one should learn how to use all of the potential skill sets (we call them “arsenals”) to the best of their ability if they are really serious about self defense. That includes things like boxing/muay thai, wrestling, BJJ, etc…; basically the skill sets found in MMA.
[quote]grayman19 wrote:
I believe that the main part of any combat sport that differs from a fight in reality is that in a sport, your goal is to win. Usually, this can be accomplished in a variety of ways, but not entirely limited to incapacitating the other fighter. In a real fight, success is dependent on your ability to quickly and effectively incapacitate or otherwise neutralize the other fighter, using whatever means necessary, and then get away before his friends do the same to you.
Neutralizing an opponent can be done in a variety of ways. I am neither a bouncer nor a cop, so anyone with experience please correct me but isn’t allowing your opponent to engage in a fight as a bouncer or cop destroying your psychological advantage over them, and thereby costing you half of your power. The one time I’ve been hassled by a bouncer so far ended with him calling his other 300lb friend over, and they both backed me into a corner and convinced me that leaving was the smart decision. In this match, the bouncer won the fight without even throwing a punch. Though I do believe he would have won if I was too drunk to think properly.
I personally don’t train MMA with the intention of using much of it in an actual fight, but I do see how it can be used (particularly the level of aggression that comes with Muay Thai training) in a street fight, at least some of it. The best training for a street altercation, however, is the ability to draw use a weapon (gun, blade, whatever), quickly and effectively, but also to be responsible in the use of the weapon (probably better to walk away from a potential fight rather than wave your gun around like you are the big dick in the room).
[/quote]
Tools of trade for a bouncer
1.watch carefully for potential problematic clients,Intervene before things get serious and you have to throw the client out. WATCHING
2.ask troublemaker to have a talk with you,separate him from his buddies.Once he is alone,half of his confidence is lost,he doesnt have to save face in front of his buddies.Be polite,respectful,but firm.do more listening than talking. BE TACTICAL
3.when dealing with violent group,gangsters,nutters and are overpowered by their numbers,recognize the situation for what it is.Be firm,show no fear no matter what to gain respect,use diplomacy & compromise.You are there to protect the club,not be right.
MANIPULATION
4.as a bouncer,you are always being watched by both clients and personel.How you react and present yourself is what your reputation is going to be.Always look confident,energetic and in control. SUBTLE INTIMIDATION
5.USE MINIMUM OF FORCE NECESSARY WHEN NECESSARY.win money and not the criminal record.That being said,when being attacked use anything to win.Losing a fight could mean losing your life,health,job,respect.Make sure to win and prepare for the worst.
Just some of my experience from 9 years on a job ;))
Man, Balbos is it just me or is Balbos nearly coming on as a solid poster in this forum?
Don’t worry man. We won’t tell anyone in any of the other forums shit about this. Now go post more pics of burning cars during riots in Croatia, cause that shit rocks. haha.
By the way- one of the things balbos said is very true when you’re a bouncer- you’re there to protect the club. Management doesn’t want that fucking place turning into Roadhouse, and if you even entertain the idea of fighting a patron, you’re opening yourself up to all kinds of lawsuits for yourself and the bar.
Much more trouble than it’s worth for them.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Man, Balbos is it just me or is Balbos nearly coming on as a solid poster in this forum?
Don’t worry man. We won’t tell anyone in any of the other forums shit about this. Now go post more pics of burning cars during riots in Croatia, cause that shit rocks. haha.[/quote]
Fortunately,my sober/sane periods are rare ;)))
Yeah,man,just check out my todays posts of war battles,destroyed tanks,drunked idiots,hooligans attacking police,arson,a few sluts and fencing competition ;))))))))
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
By the way- one of the things balbos said is very true when you’re a bouncer- you’re there to protect the club. Management doesn’t want that fucking place turning into Roadhouse, and if you even entertain the idea of fighting a patron, you’re opening yourself up to all kinds of lawsuits for yourself and the bar.
Much more trouble than it’s worth for them.[/quote]
Exactly.Its all about money.Management want a street-smart man on their door that knows what to tolerate and what not.
I had to made a lot of decisions whether to throw a person out,cause if you do then all of his friends leave too and you lose a group of clients forever and the money they spend.
On the other hand,if you allow too much shit,you lose other clients via bad rep of the club.
So you have to balance that.
You also have to deal with the fact that many drug dealers want to do bussiness in your place nad these people have some rough people to try to convince you to look the other way.You have to stand up to these people.
There is also possibility that some bouncers without job can send his friends to beat you up and tear the place down,and then they show up and offer the manager a much more capable door stuff ;)))))
The job o a bouncer is much more complex then just being a good fighter & look intimidating.
[quote]grayman19 wrote:
Neutralizing an opponent can be done in a variety of ways. I am neither a bouncer nor a cop, so anyone with experience please correct me but isn’t allowing your opponent to engage in a fight as a bouncer or cop destroying your psychological advantage over them, and thereby costing you half of your power. The one time I’ve been hassled by a bouncer so far ended with him calling his other 300lb friend over, and they both backed me into a corner and convinced me that leaving was the smart decision. In this match, the bouncer won the fight without even throwing a punch. Though I do believe he would have won if I was too drunk to think properly.
I personally don’t train MMA with the intention of using much of it in an actual fight, but I do see how it can be used (particularly the level of aggression that comes with Muay Thai training) in a street fight, at least some of it. The best training for a street altercation, however, is the ability to draw use a weapon (gun, blade, whatever), quickly and effectively, but also to be responsible in the use of the weapon (probably better to walk away from a potential fight rather than wave your gun around like you are the big dick in the room).
[/quote]
Hey not arguing with any of this. Getting in a fight as a cop means doing paperwork all night, and potentially having to defend yourself in a civil rights lawsuit. Much better to use “officer presence” to make them see reason, sit down on the ground, and put their hands where you can see them.
However, I was working on the border. Sometimes literally on the fence road. There was the constant temptation for anyone being arrested down there to sucker punch you and make a break for the fence. In those instances, I found that the best display of officer presence was cocking a Remington 870 before announcing yourself as law enforcement, and standing between them and the fence when you did it. There’s nothing like the implied threat of a chest full of 00 buck to make people see reason. But it’s all about knowing when and where to do it, and having authority in your voice when you do. Threats backfire when the people you’re threatening don’t think you’re going to back them up.
Similarly the guy who waves his gun or knife around is probably going to increase, rather than decrease, his likelihood of being attacked and injured. It’s like a great big neon sign advertising that you’re a moron, and the real bad asses have a tendency to both take offense and to decide that you need to be dealt with quickly and efficiently.
[quote]devildog_jim wrote:
[quote]grayman19 wrote:
Neutralizing an opponent can be done in a variety of ways. I am neither a bouncer nor a cop, so anyone with experience please correct me but isn’t allowing your opponent to engage in a fight as a bouncer or cop destroying your psychological advantage over them, and thereby costing you half of your power. The one time I’ve been hassled by a bouncer so far ended with him calling his other 300lb friend over, and they both backed me into a corner and convinced me that leaving was the smart decision. In this match, the bouncer won the fight without even throwing a punch. Though I do believe he would have won if I was too drunk to think properly.
I personally don’t train MMA with the intention of using much of it in an actual fight, but I do see how it can be used (particularly the level of aggression that comes with Muay Thai training) in a street fight, at least some of it. The best training for a street altercation, however, is the ability to draw use a weapon (gun, blade, whatever), quickly and effectively, but also to be responsible in the use of the weapon (probably better to walk away from a potential fight rather than wave your gun around like you are the big dick in the room).
[/quote]
Hey not arguing with any of this. Getting in a fight as a cop means doing paperwork all night, and potentially having to defend yourself in a civil rights lawsuit. Much better to use “officer presence” to make them see reason, sit down on the ground, and put their hands where you can see them.
However, I was working on the border. Sometimes literally on the fence road. There was the constant temptation for anyone being arrested down there to sucker punch you and make a break for the fence. In those instances, I found that the best display of officer presence was cocking a Remington 870 before announcing yourself as law enforcement, and standing between them and the fence when you did it. There’s nothing like the implied threat of a chest full of 00 buck to make people see reason. But it’s all about knowing when and where to do it, and having authority in your voice when you do. Threats backfire when the people you’re threatening don’t think you’re going to back them up.
Similarly the guy who waves his gun or knife around is probably going to increase, rather than decrease, his likelihood of being attacked and injured. It’s like a great big neon sign advertising that you’re a moron, and the real bad asses have a tendency to both take offense and to decide that you need to be dealt with quickly and efficiently.[/quote]
Exactly.