[quote]LHT wrote:
Why is it that needless reiteration is the defining characteristic of the longest extant thread in this sub-forum?
Or, in other words, why so many words for content that was, in essence, fully explained by, say…page 3?[/quote]
It’s the T-Nation way. Why go from Point A to Point B when you can go in circles indefinitely?
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]LHT wrote:
Why is it that needless reiteration is the defining characteristic of the longest extant thread in this sub-forum?
Or, in other words, why so many words for content that was, in essence, fully explained by, say…page 3?[/quote]
It’s the T-Nation way. Why go from Point A to Point B when you can go in circles indefinitely?[/quote]
Well, we’re damn close to killing this thread, so when “WTF Penn State 2.0” gets launched, the first few pages will have to be restatements of everyone’s opinions a couple more times again. It would be a shame if we lost track of some critical pontificating.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t remember any of this shit…
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20111112110527690
[/quote]
I’m sure this is fairly common in most big time college football programs…but damn, since 2002 at least 46 Penn State players have been charged with a total of 163 crimes.
Yikes.
LOL!
It does seem that there has been a lot of repetitive redundancy ;0, but there has actually been quite a bit of new information since last Friday’s hearing.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/135951483.html?cmpid=15585797
Some of the self-righteous here should read the above breaking story. Here is a man now accused of molestation many years ago. There are no less than 4-5 adults that were aware of the allegations (involving their own fucking children) and exactly ZERO went to the police. ZERO. One even uttered “I wish I had done more”. They didn’t make a SINGLE REPORT.
Joe Paterno was informed, and he turned around and reported it. Admin fumbled the ball. Should he have followed up? Monday morning quarterbacking I say, until I know more.
Hindsight is beautiful. Every single one of us can take a fucking plane crash after the fact and claim “I would have done this instead”, and not one of you are a fucking pilot.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t remember any of this shit…
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20111112110527690
[/quote]
I posted that SI ran an article detailing certain college pograms that have or had players in legitimate legal trouble, and Penn State was at the top of that list. This was in '08 I believe. Anyone who keeps saying what a great guy Paterno is clearly will not or cannot see the truth. [/quote]
He was a terrible terrible man. Does that do it for you?
He gave and raised millions for PSU.
He reported the fucking molestation allegedly committed by his long time friend.
They have never had a major NCAA violation. Fucking miracle to navigate that fucking code of law and not stumble.
We get it WF…Joe Paterno was a piece of shit. He lasted decades in the same job where most of the people you know couldn’t last 5 years in theirs. But he’s a POS. Married, family man, never charged with a crime and never accused of one. But he’s a POS.
The man was negligent, AT WORSE.
I guess with those rocks in your hand, you have never been negligent.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t remember any of this shit…
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20111112110527690
[/quote]
I posted that SI ran an article detailing certain college pograms that have or had players in legitimate legal trouble, and Penn State was at the top of that list. This was in '08 I believe. Anyone who keeps saying what a great guy Paterno is clearly will not or cannot see the truth. [/quote]
He was a terrible terrible man. Does that do it for you?
He gave and raised millions for PSU.
He reported the fucking molestation allegedly committed by his long time friend.
They have never had a major NCAA violation. Fucking miracle to navigate that fucking code of law and not stumble.
We get it WF…Joe Paterno was a piece of shit. He lasted decades in the same job where most of the people you know couldn’t last 5 years in theirs. But he’s a POS. Married, family man, never charged with a crime and never accused of one. But he’s a POS.
The man was negligent, AT WORSE.
I guess with those rocks in your hand, you have never been negligent.
[/quote]
He reported the molestation of a child a couple of days after hearing McQueary 'cause he didn’t want to disturb his other friends weekend.
They’ve never had a major violation DESPITE the fact that they’ve had the highest percentage of players in trouble with the law in all of division 1.
The guy clearly only cares about winning football games. He hears from McQueary that Sandusky was doing something sexual with a young boy (something I’m sure he already knew but didn’t think anyone else did) and waits til the weekend’s over to say something? Are you fucking kidding me? How you still don’t acknowledge that this is a cover-up boggles the mind.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t remember any of this shit…
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20111112110527690
[/quote]
I posted that SI ran an article detailing certain college pograms that have or had players in legitimate legal trouble, and Penn State was at the top of that list. This was in '08 I believe. Anyone who keeps saying what a great guy Paterno is clearly will not or cannot see the truth. [/quote]
He was a terrible terrible man. Does that do it for you?
He gave and raised millions for PSU.
He reported the fucking molestation allegedly committed by his long time friend.
They have never had a major NCAA violation. Fucking miracle to navigate that fucking code of law and not stumble.
We get it WF…Joe Paterno was a piece of shit. He lasted decades in the same job where most of the people you know couldn’t last 5 years in theirs. But he’s a POS. Married, family man, never charged with a crime and never accused of one. But he’s a POS.
The man was negligent, AT WORSE.
I guess with those rocks in your hand, you have never been negligent.
[/quote]
He reported the molestation of a child a couple of days after hearing McQueary 'cause he didn’t want to disturb his other friends weekend.
They’ve never had a major violation DESPITE the fact that they’ve had the highest percentage of players in trouble with the law in all of division 1.
The guy clearly only cares about winning football games. He hears from McQueary that Sandusky was doing something sexual with a young boy (something I’m sure he already knew but didn’t think anyone else did) and waits til the weekend’s over to say something? Are you fucking kidding me? How you still don’t acknowledge that this is a cover-up boggles the mind.[/quote]
How you continue to insist “cover-up” boggles my mind. Do you report cover-ups? Did Joe report this up the chain or not? You act as if he pulled McQueary aside and said, “let’s keep this close…and oh by the way, I have a job for you on the team next season”. Joe Paterno did not engage in a cover-up. Why? Because the facts don’t support it. The Grand Jury says he didn’t. And the State says he didn’t.
If you’re claiming the Admins engaged in a cover-up, I’ll have to wait for more facts.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t remember any of this shit…
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20111112110527690
[/quote]
I posted that SI ran an article detailing certain college pograms that have or had players in legitimate legal trouble, and Penn State was at the top of that list. This was in '08 I believe. Anyone who keeps saying what a great guy Paterno is clearly will not or cannot see the truth. [/quote]
He was a terrible terrible man. Does that do it for you?
He gave and raised millions for PSU.
He reported the fucking molestation allegedly committed by his long time friend.
They have never had a major NCAA violation. Fucking miracle to navigate that fucking code of law and not stumble.
We get it WF…Joe Paterno was a piece of shit. He lasted decades in the same job where most of the people you know couldn’t last 5 years in theirs. But he’s a POS. Married, family man, never charged with a crime and never accused of one. But he’s a POS.
The man was negligent, AT WORSE.
I guess with those rocks in your hand, you have never been negligent.
[/quote]
He reported the molestation of a child a couple of days after hearing McQueary 'cause he didn’t want to disturb his other friends weekend.
They’ve never had a major violation DESPITE the fact that they’ve had the highest percentage of players in trouble with the law in all of division 1.
The guy clearly only cares about winning football games. He hears from McQueary that Sandusky was doing something sexual with a young boy (something I’m sure he already knew but didn’t think anyone else did) and waits til the weekend’s over to say something? Are you fucking kidding me? How you still don’t acknowledge that this is a cover-up boggles the mind.[/quote]
How you continue to insist “cover-up” boggles my mind. Do you report cover-ups? Did Joe report this up the chain or not? You act as if he pulled McQueary aside and said, “let’s keep this close…and oh by the way, I have a job for you on the team next season”. Joe Paterno did not engage in a cover-up. Why? Because the facts don’t support it. The Grand Jury says he didn’t. And the State says he didn’t.
If you’re claiming the Admins engaged in a cover-up, I’ll have to wait for more facts.
[/quote]
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. He kept it in house, and apparently didn’t think it was pressing enough to even do it immediately. I could care less that he reported it to the AD. You hear that, and you go IMMEDIATELY to the police department and let them know what you’ve heard. They kept it in house 'cause -get this- they were covering it up. I can pretty much gaurantee that Paterno knew about this beforehand. Slumping in your chair and saying “Sorry you had to see that” sounds an awful lot like “Shit, Jerry did it again”.
Paterno certainly did not cover-up.
He openly admitted not reporting alleged child abuse because he ‘didn’t want to ruin anyone’s weekend’!! Who the hell would say that to a Grand Jury under the circumstances? That’s a painfully honest remark and tipped Paterno’s hand of incompetence, negligence and general cluelessness. He would of faired better if he had said he ‘forgot’ – then we would have kindly thought dementia was starting to set in.
Much like the Catholic Church, it’s very sad to see people who arrogantly hold themselves to a higher standard - then crash and burn.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t remember any of this shit…
http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20111112110527690
[/quote]
I posted that SI ran an article detailing certain college pograms that have or had players in legitimate legal trouble, and Penn State was at the top of that list. This was in '08 I believe. Anyone who keeps saying what a great guy Paterno is clearly will not or cannot see the truth. [/quote]
He was a terrible terrible man. Does that do it for you?
He gave and raised millions for PSU.
He reported the fucking molestation allegedly committed by his long time friend.
They have never had a major NCAA violation. Fucking miracle to navigate that fucking code of law and not stumble.
We get it WF…Joe Paterno was a piece of shit. He lasted decades in the same job where most of the people you know couldn’t last 5 years in theirs. But he’s a POS. Married, family man, never charged with a crime and never accused of one. But he’s a POS.
The man was negligent, AT WORSE.
I guess with those rocks in your hand, you have never been negligent.
[/quote]
He reported the molestation of a child a couple of days after hearing McQueary 'cause he didn’t want to disturb his other friends weekend.
They’ve never had a major violation DESPITE the fact that they’ve had the highest percentage of players in trouble with the law in all of division 1.
The guy clearly only cares about winning football games. He hears from McQueary that Sandusky was doing something sexual with a young boy (something I’m sure he already knew but didn’t think anyone else did) and waits til the weekend’s over to say something? Are you fucking kidding me? How you still don’t acknowledge that this is a cover-up boggles the mind.[/quote]
How you continue to insist “cover-up” boggles my mind. Do you report cover-ups? Did Joe report this up the chain or not? You act as if he pulled McQueary aside and said, “let’s keep this close…and oh by the way, I have a job for you on the team next season”. Joe Paterno did not engage in a cover-up. Why? Because the facts don’t support it. The Grand Jury says he didn’t. And the State says he didn’t.
If you’re claiming the Admins engaged in a cover-up, I’ll have to wait for more facts.
[/quote]
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. He kept it in house, and apparently didn’t think it was pressing enough to even do it immediately. I could care less that he reported it to the AD. You hear that, and you go IMMEDIATELY to the police department and let them know what you’ve heard. They kept it in house 'cause -get this- they were covering it up. I can pretty much gaurantee that Paterno knew about this beforehand. Slumping in your chair and saying “Sorry you had to see that” sounds an awful lot like “Shit, Jerry did it again”.[/quote]
Since you’re keen on his grand jury testimony you should know that he believed that the Admins would handle it appropriately. He didn’t keep it “in house”. The admins did. He reported it to the people that should have taken care of it…including the man responsible for campus POLICE.
And there was nothing to do “immediately”. The kid was gone. There was no alleged crime occurring at that moment. What were they going to do that weekend? Save the kid?
We can do this forever. Or we can agree to disagree.
As for him being part of a cover-up, seems to me his testimony should have been consistent with the Admins b/c Joe claimed that the report to him was sexual in nature - something his bosses deny. Are you saying Joe is now cutting them loose too?
There is ZERO evidence that Joe was part of any cover-up, from his initial reporting of the incident, to his grand jury testimony, to the testimony of McQueary. If you disagree, provide a factual basis for your position - not what you “think”.
If you want to condemn him failing to do “MOAR!”, then simply say so. At least that’s a tenable, albeit hindsight, argument.
And if you’re going to make a case for cover-up, can you explain to me why McQueary, now that he’s coming clean, has made no such mention of any cover-up? You can’t cover anything unless you have everyone’s agreement. Those little details keep escaping your sense of logic.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Paterno certainly did not cover-up.
He openly admitted not reporting alleged child abuse because he ‘didn’t want to ruin anyone’s weekend’!! Who the hell would say that to a Grand Jury under the circumstances? That’s a painfully honest remark and tipped Paterno’s hand of incompetence, negligence and general cluelessness. He would of faired better if he had said he ‘forgot’ – then we would have kindly thought dementia was starting to set in.
Much like the Catholic Church, it’s very sad to see people who arrogantly hold themselves to a higher standard - then crash and burn.[/quote]
He didn’t openly admit he didn’t report child abuse. He delayed it until Monday. You act as though the kid were getting raped the entire weekend in the showers and Joe just said let’s wait til Monday. What was a day going to matter?
Please explain to me what would have occurred Saturday that did not occur Monday?
And, have you been following the local story of Bill Conlin? And have you noticed all those adults that did NOTHING? Nothing! Parents! Relatives!
NOTHING.
Joe reported it. He didn’t call his buddy. He reported it.
Waiting til Monday pisses people off because it’s indicative of the way this entire thing was handled by PSU. Paterno did the bare minimum, when it was convenient for him. And are you really trying to justify what Paterno did (or didn’t do) with another group of total wastes of oxygen?
2nd, a “cover up” doesn’t have to mean Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA agent who killed the aliens at Area 51 and then framed Jerry Sandusky. Curley and Schultz kept it in house to protect the PSU image.
[quote]overstand wrote:
Waiting til Monday pisses people off because it’s indicative of the way this entire thing was handled by PSU. Paterno did the bare minimum, when it was convenient for him. And are you really trying to justify what Paterno did (or didn’t do) with another group of total wastes of oxygen?
2nd, a “cover up” doesn’t have to mean Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA agent who killed the aliens at Area 51 and then framed Jerry Sandusky. Curley and Schultz kept it in house to protect the PSU image. [/quote]
And the program. Seems pretty obvious to most here, but some either don’t get it or just really like to argue.
I have come to the conclusion that there will never really be any closure to this for most in this situation.
There will be the people that think that Paterno did enough…there will be those that do not believe he did.
There will be those that vilify him to the end…and those that defend him till he passes away and beyond.
We argue semantics and opinions heatedly but in the end, Paterno did enough to not get charged with any crime…I believe he is morally culpable for not doing enough for those kids, but that is a moral opinion not a legal cover-up opinion.
As for the administrators, they will be tried and have their date in court…as for Sandusky, I hope the put him in general population like Stallone and Kurt Russell in “Tango and Cash”.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Paterno certainly did not cover-up.
He openly admitted not reporting alleged child abuse because he ‘didn’t want to ruin anyone’s weekend’!! Who the hell would say that to a Grand Jury under the circumstances? That’s a painfully honest remark and tipped Paterno’s hand of incompetence, negligence and general cluelessness. He would of faired better if he had said he ‘forgot’ – then we would have kindly thought dementia was starting to set in.
Much like the Catholic Church, it’s very sad to see people who arrogantly hold themselves to a higher standard - then crash and burn.[/quote]
He didn’t openly admit he didn’t report child abuse. He delayed it until Monday. You act as though the kid were getting raped the entire weekend in the showers and Joe just said let’s wait til Monday. What was a day going to matter?
Please explain to me what would have occurred Saturday that did not occur Monday?
[/quote]
Certainly. First, you have to remember that anything with sex and children is a CRIME throughout the United States. Like any crime, time is of the essence. If Paterno had shown any concern for the kid and an OMG sense of urgency, he would have reported it like a crime…Then (a) The kid would have gotten help. (b) The kid would have been made safe. (c) Forensics would have been collected (d) Interviews conducted (e) if evidence and a conviction followed, about 7-8 years of pedophilia could have been avoided.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
And, have you been following the local story of Bill Conlin? And have you noticed all those adults that did NOTHING? Nothing! Parents! Relatives!
NOTHING.
Joe reported it. He didn’t call his buddy. He reported it.
[/quote]
Several states are already drafting laws that would make it a crime NOT to report child sex abuse. It’s long long overdue.
[quote]overstand wrote:
Waiting til Monday pisses people off because it’s indicative of the way this entire thing was handled by PSU. Paterno did the bare minimum, when it was convenient for him. And are you really trying to justify what Paterno did (or didn’t do) with another group of total wastes of oxygen?
2nd, a “cover up” doesn’t have to mean Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA agent who killed the aliens at Area 51 and then framed Jerry Sandusky. Curley and Schultz kept it in house to protect the PSU image. [/quote]
Evidently, the concept of “hindsight” is lost on you, among others.
“Indicative of the way this entire thing was handled” is decidedly past tense. Joe Paterno was making decisions on THAT day. He did not handle a single thing after that point. He testified that he believed Curly et als would handle it appropriately. Is it really reasonable to assume that Curly et als would NOT handle it appropriately? Was reporting it Monday instead of Saturday a critical issue at that time, or any other time? No.
You can jump up and down until you’re blue in the face, but the FACTS thus far make a case of potential negligence against Joe and that’s with the benefit of hindsight. There is no evidence - NONE, that Joe engaged in any coverup, your piss-poor Lee Harvey Oswalk/Area 53/JFK nonsensical attempt at humor aside.
And I’m not trying to “justify” anything. I’m trying to get you and others to stop arguing thru the lens of hindsight, and recognize the realities of real time decision making and information available. Because that sir is the standard by which we all must be judged, legally, morally or otherwise. Let me know when you want to stand up and be judged by the lens of hindsight.
Do I think Joe should have followed up? Probably. That’s not an unreasonable position to take. But arguing Joe was part of some cover-up is not supported by the facts, or his actions.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Paterno certainly did not cover-up.
He openly admitted not reporting alleged child abuse because he ‘didn’t want to ruin anyone’s weekend’!! Who the hell would say that to a Grand Jury under the circumstances? That’s a painfully honest remark and tipped Paterno’s hand of incompetence, negligence and general cluelessness. He would of faired better if he had said he ‘forgot’ – then we would have kindly thought dementia was starting to set in.
Much like the Catholic Church, it’s very sad to see people who arrogantly hold themselves to a higher standard - then crash and burn.[/quote]
He didn’t openly admit he didn’t report child abuse. He delayed it until Monday. You act as though the kid were getting raped the entire weekend in the showers and Joe just said let’s wait til Monday. What was a day going to matter?
Please explain to me what would have occurred Saturday that did not occur Monday?
[/quote]
Certainly. First, you have to remember that anything with sex and children is a CRIME throughout the United States. Like any crime, time is of the essence. If Paterno had shown any concern for the kid and an OMG sense of urgency, he would have reported it like a crime…Then (a) The kid would have gotten help. (b) The kid would have been made safe. (c) Forensics would have been collected (d) Interviews conducted (e) if evidence and a conviction followed, about 7-8 years of pedophilia could have been avoided.[/quote]
So you’re saying if he reported it Saturday, instead of Monday, all this could have been avoided? Really?
Or are you arguing that if he reported it to the police? And I will reply that’s a hindsight argument. Because, and follow this closely, reporting it to your superiors, which included the man in charge of campus police, and the expectation that it would be handled appropriately, is NOT an unreasonable belief.
Are you telling me that if you reported a crime to your employer, and that employer had its own police department, that you would not expect it to be handled appropriately? Really?
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
And, have you been following the local story of Bill Conlin? And have you noticed all those adults that did NOTHING? Nothing! Parents! Relatives!
NOTHING.
Joe reported it. He didn’t call his buddy. He reported it.
[/quote]
Several states are already drafting laws that would make it a crime NOT to report child sex abuse. It’s long long overdue.[/quote]
Yeah and from the looks of it, some parents are going to be in danger of going to jail…unless of course you’re missing this local Bill Conlin affair.