WTF Penn State?!?!?!

TheBodyGuard · December 19, 2011, 5:07pm

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
In new testimony released on December 16th…

Joe Paterno, in his own words, on why he waited until the following day to call anyone after hearing what McQueary had told him about seeing Sandusky with a boy in a campus shower in 2002: “I ordinarily would have called people right away, but it was a Saturday morning and I didn’t want to interfere with their weekends.”

Paterno also said he didn’t press McQueary for specifics during their initial conversation, because he could see he was upset. But Paterno knew it was inappropriate and also said of what he was told that “it was a sexual nature.”

RUH ROH RAGGIE

Anthony Sassano (State Attorney Generals office) testified simply that the 2002 incident was not reported to police or to Children and Youth Services, as required under Pennsylvania law.

Gary Schultz (the school’s former senior vice president for business and finance)also said he didn’t think it was criminal for a grown man to grab a child’s genitals.

Testimony in open court at the preliminary hearing.[/quote]

Well, we’re getting a clearer picture. I’m still waiting to hear what, if anything, was reported back to Joe. I hope he lives to account for what his actions or inaction was. I’m interested to know how 4 seemingly normal adults could let this occur. Do you have a link to the Schultz quote?

UtahLama · December 19, 2011, 5:27pm

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
In new testimony released on December 16th…

Joe Paterno, in his own words, on why he waited until the following day to call anyone after hearing what McQueary had told him about seeing Sandusky with a boy in a campus shower in 2002: “I ordinarily would have called people right away, but it was a Saturday morning and I didn’t want to interfere with their weekends.”

Paterno also said he didn’t press McQueary for specifics during their initial conversation, because he could see he was upset. But Paterno knew it was inappropriate and also said of what he was told that “it was a sexual nature.”

RUH ROH RAGGIE

Anthony Sassano (State Attorney Generals office) testified simply that the 2002 incident was not reported to police or to Children and Youth Services, as required under Pennsylvania law.

Gary Schultz (the school’s former senior vice president for business and finance)also said he didn’t think it was criminal for a grown man to grab a child’s genitals.

Testimony in open court at the preliminary hearing.[/quote]

Well, we’re getting a clearer picture. I’m still waiting to hear what, if anything, was reported back to Joe. I hope he lives to account for what his actions or inaction was. I’m interested to know how 4 seemingly normal adults could let this occur. Do you have a link to the Schultz quote?
[/quote]

It’s from a reporter for KYWN news who was in the hearing…

UtahLama · December 19, 2011, 7:50pm

Was kinda hoping Tom would weigh in on this as a Penn State Alum…he would be following this closer than most.

TheBodyGuard · December 19, 2011, 8:49pm

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

Gary Schultz (the school’s former senior vice president for business and finance)also said he didn’t think it was criminal for a grown man to grab a child’s genitals.

[/quote]

You understand you completely misrepresented the above? First, your source was a tweet. Next, you even took the tweet out of context and/or misquoted it. He said he “couldn’t say”, according to the tweet. He likely would answer like this (under the advice of counsel) because to answer the question requires you to make a legal conclusion. This would be unwise for any defendant to do. I know to the layman this might seem like splitting hairs but it is not. Counsel is trying to box him in. If he admits that grabbing a child’s genitals is a “crime” then he has placed himself in a position of having a legal obligation to report it to the authorities.

Anyway, was your error one of carelessness or bias?

UtahLama · December 19, 2011, 8:59pm

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

Gary Schultz (the school’s former senior vice president for business and finance)also said he didn’t think it was criminal for a grown man to grab a child’s genitals.

[/quote]

You understand you completely misrepresented the above? First, your source was a tweet. Next, you even took the tweet out of context and/or misquoted it. He said he “couldn’t say”, according to the tweet. He likely would answer like this (under the advice of counsel) because to answer the question requires you to make a legal conclusion. This would be unwise for any defendant to do. I know to the layman this might seem like splitting hairs but it is not. Counsel is trying to box him in. If he admits that grabbing a child’s genitals is a “crime” then he has placed himself in a position of having a legal obligation to report it to the authorities.

Anyway, was your error one of carelessness or bias?[/quote]

He was a reporter who was IN the hearing…how do you suppose this info get’s on ESPN and the New York Times ect? From reporters who were in the courtroom.

Dude, you are grasping at straws now.

I get it, you are never wrong…it’s cool.

I defer to your superior ability to nitpick…I was merely quoting excerpts from the AP story, so it would be neither carelessness or bias.

Ulty · December 19, 2011, 10:16pm

I watched a live blog/twitter feed of multiple reporters who were present during the testimony and the reading of the grand jury testimonies. It was interesting stuff, but now I can’t find a link to it all. It was on foxsports.com, maybe it’s not up anymore (the transcript of the blogging/twittering). Did anyone else catch the live feed of that?

From what I recall:

When McQueary first called Paterno, JoePa told him he didn’t have a job for him, so there was no need for them to meet. Then McQ said it was much more serious than that. (Of course, Paterno did have a job for him by the next year…)
McQueary testified that he made it clear to Paterno and Schultz that there was sexual activity going on, although he couldn’t be sure that there was actually penetration, and he didn’t use graphic detail in his descriptions.
McQueary was never told by Curley or Schultz not to talk about the matter with anyone else. (But of course, McQueary never did.)
He didn’t go to the police because he considered telling Schultz the next best thing. A few weeks after he met with Curley and Schultz (which was a week after meeting with Paterno), they followed up with him and said it had been taken care of. McQueary never spoke with any police or anyone else.
No one asked about the identity of the kid McQ saw with Sandusky. Paterno didn’t. Curley didn’t. Schultz didn’t.
McQueary saw Sandusky on campus in the years since, but not with kids. He mentioned to others that it was wrong for Sandusky to be there, but he never said why.
Paterno testified to the Grand Jury that what McQueary described was sexual and disturbing. He didn’t press McQueary for details.
Paterno waited to call Curley until Monday because he didn’t want to bother him on Saturday.
Paterno testified (according to the twitter feeds) that he told Curley there was a problem and what the problem was. The testimony did not include anything more specific than that!
Paterno said he did not meet with Schultz, which is not consistent with Curley and Schultz’s testimony.
Paterno said he told Curley because he beleived Curley would take care of it. He did not hear from Curley or Schultz on this matter again. No further follow up. None.
Curley testified that he was aware of inappropriate and disturbing activity, involving Sandusky in the shower with a boy, but was never told it was sexual.
Curley admitted there was no investigation.
At the end, Curley (maybe it was Schultz) told Sandusky not to use the workout facilities anymore and not to bring kids to campus. Schultz admitted this was unenforceable.
Schultz testified that he and Curley met with Paterno. Similar to Curley in that there was inappropriate stuff going on, but did not hear that it was sexual. Did not think it was a crime. Did not think it warranted further investigation. Yet, he testified that he thought he was told of Sandusky grabbing the kids genitals.
Schultz never reported this to any police or other authority. He did mention the incident to Graham Spanier. Spanier may have been the one to tell Second Mile (I saw an article today that the Second Mile board said they were never told a damn thing form the CEO, though).

system · December 20, 2011, 12:35am

Shut the Penn State football program down. Some recruits are already de-committing anyway. Let the current players enjoy playing for another school instead of continuing under this disgrace. Let that field go fallow. If Penn State was smart, they would let that be their own idea.

Show a little respect for the victims and at-risk boys in general—that’s the least they can do. And yeah yeah yeah…so they are raising money for child abuse victims now …tell them to stuff it. The 2nd Mile raised money for child abuse victims–what did that prove?

Christine · December 20, 2011, 12:40am

The more that comes out, the worse it all becomes.

Everyone was worried about their own careers, and no one gave a damn about the boy in the shower.

TheBodyGuard · December 20, 2011, 1:59am

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

Gary Schultz (the school’s former senior vice president for business and finance)also said he didn’t think it was criminal for a grown man to grab a child’s genitals.

[/quote]

You understand you completely misrepresented the above? First, your source was a tweet. Next, you even took the tweet out of context and/or misquoted it. He said he “couldn’t say”, according to the tweet. He likely would answer like this (under the advice of counsel) because to answer the question requires you to make a legal conclusion. This would be unwise for any defendant to do. I know to the layman this might seem like splitting hairs but it is not. Counsel is trying to box him in. If he admits that grabbing a child’s genitals is a “crime” then he has placed himself in a position of having a legal obligation to report it to the authorities.

Anyway, was your error one of carelessness or bias?[/quote]

He was a reporter who was IN the hearing…how do you suppose this info get’s on ESPN and the New York Times ect? From reporters who were in the courtroom.

Dude, you are grasping at straws now.

I get it, you are never wrong…it’s cool.

I defer to your superior ability to nitpick…I was merely quoting excerpts from the AP story, so it would be neither carelessness or bias.
[/quote]

I can be absolutely wrong. I stated that at the beginning. However, the simple logic in my argument could never be wrong. If I’m wrong, it’s because more information becomes available - the very premise of my position all along.

And are you denying the clear distinction between what was tweeted and how you quoted it? You don’t see the distinction? I can spell it out if need be. It’s not a nit pick.

TheBodyGuard · December 20, 2011, 2:05am

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Shut the Penn State football program down. Some recruits are already de-committing anyway. Let the current players enjoy playing for another school instead of continuing under this disgrace. Let that field go fallow. If Penn State was smart, they would let that be their own idea.

Show a little respect for the victims and at-risk boys in general—that’s the least they can do. And yeah yeah yeah…so they are raising money for child abuse victims now …tell them to stuff it. The 2nd Mile raised money for child abuse victims–what did that prove?[/quote]

I’m curious; how do you take the position to “shut the football program down” when Sandusky was retired at the time, and this was not a football related matter? How do you take that position when the two administrators that Joe reported the matter to were University officials, not football coaches?

Why don’t you just say, “shut the University down”? That’s as equally nonsensical as “shut the football program down”. As if football players and coaches were gang raping little boys after practice.

system · December 20, 2011, 2:35am

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Shut the Penn State football program down. Some recruits are already de-committing anyway. Let the current players enjoy playing for another school instead of continuing under this disgrace. Let that field go fallow. If Penn State was smart, they would let that be their own idea.

Show a little respect for the victims and at-risk boys in general—that’s the least they can do. And yeah yeah yeah…so they are raising money for child abuse victims now …tell them to stuff it. The 2nd Mile raised money for child abuse victims–what did that prove?[/quote]

I’m curious; how do you take the position to “shut the football program down” when Sandusky was retired at the time, and this was not a football related matter? How do you take that position when the two administrators that Joe reported the matter to were University officials, not football coaches?

Why don’t you just say, “shut the University down”? That’s as equally nonsensical as “shut the football program down”. As if football players and coaches were gang raping little boys after practice. [/quote]

Even though it has nothing to do with the game of football per se, this whole situation is thouroughly wrapped up in football. ‘Penn State Football’ is the elephant in the room, that was protected over and above child safety. I think they handled the situation so irresponsibly and so negligently — all in the name of protecting the image and money-machine of their sacred football program that the program should be temporarily shut down. A year would satisfy me. Some people are urging that they be shut down a year for every year they covered up and enabled pedophilia – nine years. Everyone is going to have different opinions on the appropriate punishment. Some may feel a slap on Penn State’s butt is all that it needed.

I do feel sorry for the players and I think they would have a better experience if they were to continue elsewhere.

TheBodyGuard · December 20, 2011, 3:07am

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Shut the Penn State football program down. Some recruits are already de-committing anyway. Let the current players enjoy playing for another school instead of continuing under this disgrace. Let that field go fallow. If Penn State was smart, they would let that be their own idea.

Show a little respect for the victims and at-risk boys in general—that’s the least they can do. And yeah yeah yeah…so they are raising money for child abuse victims now …tell them to stuff it. The 2nd Mile raised money for child abuse victims–what did that prove?[/quote]

I’m curious; how do you take the position to “shut the football program down” when Sandusky was retired at the time, and this was not a football related matter? How do you take that position when the two administrators that Joe reported the matter to were University officials, not football coaches?

Why don’t you just say, “shut the University down”? That’s as equally nonsensical as “shut the football program down”. As if football players and coaches were gang raping little boys after practice. [/quote]

Even though it has nothing to do with the game of football per se, this whole situation is thouroughly wrapped up in football. ‘Penn State Football’ is the elephant in the room, that was protected over and above child safety. I think they handled the situation so irresponsibly and so negligently — all in the name of protecting the image and money-machine of their sacred football program that the program should be temporarily shut down. A year would satisfy me. Some people are urging that they be shut down a year for every year they covered up and enabled pedophilia – nine years. Everyone is going to have different opinions on the appropriate punishment. Some may feel a slap on Penn State’s butt is all that it needed.

I do feel sorry for the players and I think they would have a better experience if they were to continue elsewhere. [/quote]

Forgive me, but we’re a long way from “cover-up”. Incompetence perhaps, but it’s 4th and long for “cover-up”. PSU football required no such protection.

Tell me, and I’d like to hear from all the other conspiracy types here as well - what happens if they expose Sandusky when it occurs? I’ll tell you what. Sandusky gets arrested. It’s news for a few news cycles and then it’s done. Finished. Not a blip on the radar screen.

And tell me, if they intended to engage in a “cover-up”, why does Paterno send it up the chain without any attempt to “quarterback it”? Why does PSU inform yet a third party (Second Mile).

Please. Stop it with cover-up. The facts do not support it.

This is not football related other than the fact that it’s an ex-coach and a then wannabe coach as an alleged witness to the deed.

I think some of you keep forgetting this is a criminal act of Sandusky. I can’t for the life of me figure out why they didn’t report this, but I know the devil is in the detail between McQueary and the administrators.

system · December 20, 2011, 3:53am

Plenty of incompetence, negligence, cover-up and enabling to go around – on many different levels – McQueary, Paterno, Curly, Schultz, the former head of 2nd Mile (friend of Sandosky) who neglected to tell the 2nd Mile Board of Trustees about the 2002 incident.

I agree that incompetence and negligence are the fore-runners here, but did they not result in a cover-up? Sandosky, of course is the criminal by today’s laws. But by the time this is over, the laws will be changed and it will be criminal to passively not-report sexual child abuse.

UtahLama · December 20, 2011, 4:34pm