[quote]KrohDaddi wrote:
another thread about this that starts with speeches and ends in a battle-royale pit-fight about nothing and nothing gets done and no one remembers what was going on and learns nothing to prevent the same thing from happening again because everyone got distracted by their own ego[/quote]
I think what you meant to say was “another thread full of fairly intelligent discussions derailed by one poster who can’t handle when 98% of the other posters disagree with him so he resorts to name calling, condescension and volume to compensate for his glaringly apparent insecurities.”
[quote]KrohDaddi wrote:
another thread about this that starts with speeches and ends in a battle-royale pit-fight about nothing and nothing gets done and no one remembers what was going on and learns nothing to prevent the same thing from happening again because everyone got distracted by their own ego[/quote]
Social commentary is only appreciated when it’s funny…
[quote]gregron wrote:
^^LOL @ me being the one who’s using “childish attacks” bwaaahahahaha! Funniest thing you’ve ever said BG.
You’ve now moved on to your next go to move, “I’m stronger than you and can whoop you.” I’ve seen you go on with that nonsense with quite a few posters and it’s always the same tired routine LOL
[quote]KrohDaddi wrote:
another thread about this that starts with speeches and ends in a battle-royale pit-fight about nothing and nothing gets done and no one remembers what was going on and learns nothing to prevent the same thing from happening again because everyone got distracted by their own ego[/quote]
I think what you meant to say was “another thread full of fairly intelligent discussions derailed by one poster who can’t handle when 98% of the other posters disagree with him so he resorts to name calling, condescension and volume to compensate for his glaringly apparent insecurities.”[/quote]
coming from someone who has not offered yet one intelligent reply. not one. do you want me to quote them all back to you? i’m in the quoting spirit.
any discussion about this can be derailed with standardised steer into weeds
turn convo into paranoid rant about dangers of ‘wrongful accusations’ and parsing of minutiae
interspersed with admonitions against ‘convicting without a trial’
avoid particulars and discuss phenomena in abstract and avoid spinning wheels in mud
i don’t know and don’t need to know details to understand general shape of scandal and cover-ups
they have always the same salient features
and those who orchestrate them are familiar with techniques of disinformation necessary to create these bear-traps that are stepped in repeatedly
And now the digging has begun…I am sure this sort of thing is VERY common in D1 football, but at a school that prides itself on “winning with honor” all these skeletons are gonna be bad.
[quote]kamui wrote:
Too bad Palerno is not a catholic priest, now we have to wait for the facts. :)[/quote]
and that would be because you intellectually do not understand the difference between an abuser and someone who in hindsight “wished he did more” but is not accused of any wrongdoing?
or because you don’t understand the difference between a lone employee committing abuse and a pattern of abuse within an organization?
or because you don’t understand that the facts are the truth and what precedes the facts may not be true?
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And now the digging has begun…I am sure this sort of thing is VERY common in D1 football, but at a school that prides itself on “winning with honor” all these skeletons are gonna be bad.
Sports illustrated had an article semi-recently about schools with kids who’ve been in serious trouble with the law and Penn State was at the top of the list. Covering up for knuckleheaded athletes so they can stay on the field and the program looks good is as old as sport itself. Penn State, and Joe Paterno are clearly not the squeeky clean image they projected. Anyone who argues otherwise is an idiot.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And now the digging has begun…I am sure this sort of thing is VERY common in D1 football, but at a school that prides itself on “winning with honor” all these skeletons are gonna be bad.
Meh. VERY common indeed. It’s no secret that student/athletes at big programs are given more lee-way than their fellow students. Personally, I’m not very troubled by that in principle. Life is not fair. When you enter the workplace and adult life, we are not treated equally. By the time you’re a year into your very first paying job, you will realize that such disparity of treatment is a fact of life.
The problem for me is when the student/athlete conduct crossed the line to criminal conduct. A fight is one thing. Beating people unconscious, breaking in apartments, etc. are other matters altogether. That Joe sought to protect his players makes him no different than many other big name college coaches but it does ring hypocritical and antithetical to his preaching about honor and integrity. That said, his desire to protect players could easily be taken out of context and misrepresented too.
A certain amount of protection for the student/athlete however IS in order. These are still kids by and large. They make mistakes. If student Joe Smith does something stupid, we’re not reading about it and we’re not watching it on ESPN. If student/athlete Joe Smith does something stupid, we are watching it on ESPN and reading about it. College kids are largely ill prepared for such a level of scrutiny and to that extent, I understand a coach wanting to protect his players…up to a point. These athletes are largely Alpha Male kids, with loads of hormones and maybe a history of being coddled. In a perfect world, we wouldn’t treat them this way, but the adults in their lives are to blame, not the kids that were never conditioned for the responsibilities that lie ahead for a high profile college athlete.
We’ll see how everything shakes out. But at this point, this kinda reeks of mud-slinging and piling on by a disgruntled former employee. There are serious allegations of abuse afoot here and what Joe did to protect some players long ago only distracts us from the real issue; getting to the bottom of this scandal and unearthing the culpable parties. running interference for his players is a far cry from running interference for Sandusky so he can abuse little boys.
As far as Joe and football are concerned, at the end of the day (to quote from the article) PSU “players graduated at rates far above average, and it is one of only four major-conference athletic programs never to have been sanctioned for major violations by the sport’s governing body, the NCAA.” That accomplishment deserves some respect and the attached article does little to undermine that. Yeah…football players at PSU get disparate treatment from a regular student. Duh. Tell us something we don’t know?
i wondered who broke this scandal open
no one seemed to be mentioning who finally broke the wall of shame around it
expecting to hear someone in the University staff had finally manned up
but no
left it to fall on a 17 year old kid to take this burden up
and the kid had to drop out of school
and the guidance counselor knew all about it
do they have a school assembly to explain to the other kids what ‘Ethics’ are?
and who is right and who is wrong here?
Nope
the victim has to leave
everyone else went back about their wrong-headed business
good looking-out there school officials
tolerating evil and watching the victim driven out of your midst as part of your preparation for life
that’s why they get paid the big bucks
We are speaking about Penn state in this thread. Is Penn State not an organization ?
[/quote]
You want to argue this with me? Because I handled some church abuse cases and I can tell you unequivocally that those in the church were more culpable than any mud you can throw on Joe Paterno. Lots of money was paid out in those cases because people within the organization absolutely knew what was going on.
Yes, PSU is an organization; and thus far, Sandusky is the only alleged perpetrator of abuse - it’s far from a pattern of conduct. If PSU were the catholic church, they’d have simply transferred Sandusky to a new parish and new group of victims.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And now the digging has begun…I am sure this sort of thing is VERY common in D1 football, but at a school that prides itself on “winning with honor” all these skeletons are gonna be bad.
Meh. VERY common indeed. It’s no secret that student/athletes at big programs are given more lee-way than their fellow students. Personally, I’m not very troubled by that in principle. Life is not fair. When you enter the workplace and adult life, we are not treated equally. By the time you’re a year into your very first paying job, you will realize that such disparity of treatment is a fact of life.
The problem for me is when the student/athlete conduct crossed the line to criminal conduct. A fight is one thing. Beating people unconscious, breaking in apartments, etc. are other matters altogether. That Joe sought to protect his players makes him no different than many other big name college coaches but it does ring hypocritical and antithetical to his preaching about honor and integrity. That said, his desire to protect players could easily be taken out of context and misrepresented too.
A certain amount of protection for the student/athlete however IS in order. These are still kids by and large. They make mistakes. If student Joe Smith does something stupid, we’re not reading about it and we’re not watching it on ESPN. If student/athlete Joe Smith does something stupid, we are watching it on ESPN and reading about it. College kids are largely ill prepared for such a level of scrutiny and to that extent, I understand a coach wanting to protect his players…up to a point. These athletes are largely Alpha Male kids, with loads of hormones and maybe a history of being coddled. In a perfect world, we wouldn’t treat them this way, but the adults in their lives are to blame, not the kids that were never conditioned for the responsibilities that lie ahead for a high profile college athlete.
We’ll see how everything shakes out. But at this point, this kinda reeks of mud-slinging and piling on by a disgruntled former employee. There are serious allegations of abuse afoot here and what Joe did to protect some players long ago only distracts us from the real issue; getting to the bottom of this scandal and unearthing the culpable parties. running interference for his players is a far cry from running interference for Sandusky so he can abuse little boys.
As far as Joe and football are concerned, at the end of the day (to quote from the article) PSU “players graduated at rates far above average, and it is one of only four major-conference athletic programs never to have been sanctioned for major violations by the sport’s governing body, the NCAA.” That accomplishment deserves some respect and the attached article does little to undermine that. Yeah…football players at PSU get disparate treatment from a regular student. Duh. Tell us something we don’t know?[/quote]
Oh fully agree…but when one takes the highest of high roads (Paterno) and preaches honor and class…you are not allowed to be just like “the rest”
And the disgruntled former employee was one of the highest ranking VP’s on campus, and according to the e-mails…Paterno had her fired. That is kind of smelly to me.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
And I think that the Athletic Department is only begining to see the shit storm brew…this is NOT the letter you want to get during all this.
Damn! That is huge (as far as possible sanctions go)
I said from the beginning that they probably werent going to get many sanctions because of this since it is a criminal matter but that letter hinted at “failure to monitor” and the dreaded “lack of institutional control” tags.
If they come down with any sanctions they should allow any players who are currently on the Penn State roster and unconditional transfer (with no sitting out a year)
