WTF Penn State?!?!?!

Off Topic
841

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Still waiting on the moral outrage and ridiculous speculation about espn( who received information back in 2003 snout child molestation and did not alert the police), what did Jim Boheim know, what kind of investigation did syracuse conduct in 2005?

My answer is we need to get some facts. I expect those who think they could read between the lines or just guess well is to be just as goofy here.

Espn has approximately 200 graduates from Syracuse, one if the two top schools in broadcast journalism. Let’s see if the handle it the same way , or if we seem some prudence in their reporting .[/quote]

I have your answer.

There is no icon over at Syracuse to push off a pedestal. We prop them up there, and are only too happy and eager to push them off b/c it makes most people feel better about the utter mediocrity (or worse) of their own lives.

842

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Hrmmm Interesting…Paterno was preparing for the sex abuse scandal months ago by pre-emptively protecting his assets

[/quote]

This is fucking retarded. The “journalist” who is trying to connect those dots is a moron.

I have stayed out of this thread, because it is impossible for me to keep emotion out of my responses, but that trash from the NY Times of all places, should be burned, redacted, and removed from anyone’s mind.

Anyone that has real money, or been around someone with real money understands estate planning. Much like why John Lackey is divorcing his dying wife, it is, 99.99999999% of the time about the $.

[/quote]

thank you for reaffirming the boogey man is not lying in wait under the bed. this thread has produced some entertaining views for sure.

you’d think it was the illumanati running shit over at penn state by the time you’re done with this :wink: wait…aren’t sandusky and paterno both masons!!!

843

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Hrmmm Interesting…Paterno was preparing for the sex abuse scandal months ago by pre-emptively protecting his assets

[/quote]

This is fucking retarded. The “journalist” who is trying to connect those dots is a moron.

I have stayed out of this thread, because it is impossible for me to keep emotion out of my responses, but that trash from the NY Times of all places, should be burned, redacted, and removed from anyone’s mind.

Anyone that has real money, or been around someone with real money understands estate planning. Much like why John Lackey is divorcing his dying wife, it is, 99.99999999% of the time about the $.

[/quote]

thank you for reaffirming the boogey man is not lying in wait under the bed. this thread has produced some entertaining views for sure.

you’d think it was the illumanati running shit over at penn state by the time you’re done with this :wink: wait…aren’t sandusky and paterno both masons!!!

[/quote]

haha, look maybe I am wrong, maybe it is shitty estate planning (passing shit to your still married wife typically isn’t the best move, depends on the type of trust and for whom it benefits, etc) but I just can’t see the two being linked.

But most people with a big name, real money, both or just “fame” in general would be wise to have a lot of insurance and NOT have their family home in their own name.

844

Exactly. Now we might see some thoughtful journalism. Which I look forward to seeing.

But are we going to see 34 more pages of this about Syracuse ? Don’t think so for your reasons.

Tom’s rule of life , everyone is full of shit. Except maybe you BG. Seriously.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Still waiting on the moral outrage and ridiculous speculation about espn( who received information back in 2003 snout child molestation and did not alert the police), what did Jim Boheim know, what kind of investigation did syracuse conduct in 2005?

My answer is we need to get some facts. I expect those who think they could read between the lines or just guess well is to be just as goofy here.

Espn has approximately 200 graduates from Syracuse, one if the two top schools in broadcast journalism. Let’s see if the handle it the same way , or if we seem some prudence in their reporting .[/quote]

I have your answer.

There is no icon over at Syracuse to push off a pedestal. We prop them up there, and are only too happy and eager to push them off b/c it makes most people feel better about the utter mediocrity (or worse) of their own lives. [/quote]

845

Condescension is going to be directly proportional to the stupid it must deal with.

[

quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:
two questions for BG:

1 - do you believe Paterno should still be active head coach of Penn State football? (I’m sure you stated your position but I can’t be bothered to scour the thread)

2 - can you tone down the condescension already?? (it’s a tired act, however typical on these boards)
[/quote]

if you read the thread, you’d have your answer to number one, and you’d know that by now the condescension is richly deserved.[/quote]

846

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Still waiting on the moral outrage and ridiculous speculation about espn( who received information back in 2003 snout child molestation and did not alert the police), what did Jim Boheim know, what kind of investigation did syracuse conduct in 2005?

My answer is we need to get some facts. I expect those who think they could read between the lines or just guess well is to be just as goofy here.

Espn has approximately 200 graduates from Syracuse, one if the two top schools in broadcast journalism. Let’s see if the handle it the same way , or if we seem some prudence in their reporting .[/quote]

According to ESPN this morning (they interviewed Boheim) he said it is “a pack of a thousand lies” and the kid “is nothing but a liar…period.”

The alleged victim also said that he never went to Boheim with any of his allegations.

847

And I believe that the Syracuse situation might be a little different, because there are no corroborating witnesses to the abuse…which is why the original investigation did not go anywhere.

848

Here’s a question for all those who think Paterno’s getting a raw deal: if he is actually the model of decency and moral fiber and did in fact follow up on his report and was outraged by the lack of action, wouldn’t he have just quit? I mean, how can someone so pious (for lack of a better term) just let it go and continue to work with all these slimeballs?

849

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Still waiting on the moral outrage and ridiculous speculation about espn( who received information back in 2003 snout child molestation and did not alert the police), what did Jim Boheim know, what kind of investigation did syracuse conduct in 2005?

My answer is we need to get some facts. I expect those who think they could read between the lines or just guess well is to be just as goofy here.

Espn has approximately 200 graduates from Syracuse, one if the two top schools in broadcast journalism. Let’s see if the handle it the same way , or if we seem some prudence in their reporting .[/quote]

I have your answer.

There is no icon over at Syracuse to push off a pedestal. We prop them up there, and are only too happy and eager to push them off b/c it makes most people feel better about the utter mediocrity (or worse) of their own lives. [/quote]

Syracuse is a major basketball town, Coach Behime (sp?) Has god status. When a player was kicked out of school for punching a female student because she ask him to get off her car, the punishment to the player turned into missing a couple of practices. Coach B was vocal in that nothing should be done in the situation because someone’s life should not derailed because of one incident. Remember the player punch a female student.

850

Because it involved students the situation was handled through the university not through local police though it happened off campus.

851

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Still waiting on the moral outrage and ridiculous speculation about espn( who received information back in 2003 snout child molestation and did not alert the police), what did Jim Boheim know, what kind of investigation did syracuse conduct in 2005?

My answer is we need to get some facts. I expect those who think they could read between the lines or just guess well is to be just as goofy here.

Espn has approximately 200 graduates from Syracuse, one if the two top schools in broadcast journalism. Let’s see if the handle it the same way , or if we seem some prudence in their reporting .[/quote]

According to ESPN this morning (they interviewed Boheim) he said it is “a pack of a thousand lies” and the kid “is nothing but a liar…period.”

The alleged victim also said that he never went to Boheim with any of his allegations. [/quote]

Given past situations Boheim would say the same thing if there were a thousand witnesses.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, Boheim only cares about his team.

852

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
if you read the thread, you’d have your answer to number one, and you’d know that by now the condescension is richly deserved.[/quote]

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Condescension is going to be directly proportional to the stupid it must deal with.[/quote]

Umm, thanks but no thanks.

I’m not THAT interested in your stance on whether Paterno should still be active head coach, so no thanks.

And while this current post would certainly fall under the category of bickering, the above quoted posts don’t even accomplish that much, so thanks.

:slight_smile:

853

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Here’s a question for all those who think Paterno’s getting a raw deal: if he is actually the model of decency and moral fiber and did in fact follow up on his report and was outraged by the lack of action, wouldn’t he have just quit? I mean, how can someone so pious (for lack of a better term) just let it go and continue to work with all these slimeballs? [/quote]

I’m trying my best to guide you and keep you on track but you keep making the same errors.

First, no one is saying “Joe got a raw deal”. Most reasonable people believe he deserved to be fired because he was in fact the “captain of the ship”. Right or wrong, like the QB on the football team, it goes with the territory.

The only thing most reasonable people are saying concerning Joe is that we simply do not know what he knew and when he knew it. In order to evaluate someone’s moral responsibility, we must know what he knew, what he did in response to what he knew, and when he knew it. It’s really simple. And until we know these things, we cannot fairly render a judgment on what Joe should have done. If at the end of the day, when the fact are aired, and if he was found wanting, then so be it. I have no connection to Penn State (other than a “nephew” that just signed a LOI to play basketball there), can’t remember ever watching a college football game start to finish and Joe Paterno (or any other man for that matter) is no “hero” of mine.

Now, you ask “why would he just not quit”? And once again, it begs the question; what exactly did he know, and when.

You’re making the same mistake that every rookie malpractice claim person makes when looking at a malpractice claim for the first time; there was a bad result, so somebody fucked up. Bad result does not mean someone “fucked up”. We get bad results in every day life in spite of the best intentions of people (doctors included). Why? Because we do not have perfect or complete information. We make judgments and take action (or do not take action) based upon WHAT WAS KNOWN AT THE TIME, WITHOUT the benefit of HINDSIGHT. This is why I and others have said let’s wait and see what Joe knew and when he knew it, and what he did or didn’t do. Right now, we quite literally know nothing for certain. Nothing. We have allegations, a grand jury summary (which is a one sided recitation of the State’s basis for charging someone and barely touched on Joe), and a bunch of holes in the timeline and no testimony from anyone.

Now, your question IS fair at this time for someone like McQueery who claims to have actually WITNESSED the alleged conduct.

We can keep going in circles about this for until the thread locks. But you cannot escape the simple logic above. Until you can provide actual FACTS along with a timeline, you cannot yet accurately judge Joe. I’d even normally add that the accused is innocent until proven guilty, but there is just too much smoke here from too many different directions for there not to be some fire.

854

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Still waiting on the moral outrage and ridiculous speculation about espn( who received information back in 2003 snout child molestation and did not alert the police), what did Jim Boheim know, what kind of investigation did syracuse conduct in 2005?

My answer is we need to get some facts. I expect those who think they could read between the lines or just guess well is to be just as goofy here.

Espn has approximately 200 graduates from Syracuse, one if the two top schools in broadcast journalism. Let’s see if the handle it the same way , or if we seem some prudence in their reporting .[/quote]

I have your answer.

There is no icon over at Syracuse to push off a pedestal. We prop them up there, and are only too happy and eager to push them off b/c it makes most people feel better about the utter mediocrity (or worse) of their own lives. [/quote]

Syracuse is a major basketball town, Coach Behime (sp?) Has god status. When a player was kicked out of school for punching a female student because she ask him to get off her car, the punishment to the player turned into missing a couple of practices. Coach B was vocal in that nothing should be done in the situation because someone’s life should not derailed because of one incident. Remember the player punch a female student. [/quote]

Don’t you work or didn’t you work at a University? Are you kidding me with this “god” status? Coaches are as good as their record. Coaches (Gods as you refer to them) get fired all the time, even the icons. To take this “god” position is not only fallacious, it’s illogical and nonsensical.

And I don’t know about the incident but I do wholly agree that a young life should not be derailed over an incident or poor judgment. This culture of “zero tolerance” and the like is out of hand.

For the last time, this “god” thing is nonsensical. We’re talking a tenured member of the faculty here. Professor Emiritus. Joe can’t off and “fire” him even if he had the information you guys are imagining him to have. For crying out loud, his own players have run afoul with the law in the last decade and Joe couldn’t save them either. A few years ago, when he was LOSING, his job was on the line - like every other “god” coach who starts to lose.

Do student/athletes get some protection or preferential treatment at certain universities? You betcha. But what the hell does that have to do with the Penn State case? And are you comparing the reputations of Boheim to Paterno? Really?

855

The head of the police department who investigated the initial complaint played basketball for Jim Boheim at Syracuse btw.

It will all come out and I’m interested to see everyone’s reactions .

856

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
Because it involved students the situation was handled through the university not through local police though it happened off campus.[/quote]
Exactly. Most universities that large have their own police departments. I just want to see how espn handles things. Rush to judgement? Let’s wait for the facts.

I deleted a facebook fan an syracuse grad and fan for his railing on Paterno and how he knew etc. over a week ago. I wonder how he will react now.
These creeps ate everywhere. They’re sneaky. They fool people. They do horrible things.

But it does no one good including victims to rush out to judgement before we know the facts . That should apply to Jim Boheim . It should apply to Joe Paterno . You know, men who are not accused of crimes . There will be plenty of time to blame them later when we actually know what both did .

857

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Here’s a question for all those who think Paterno’s getting a raw deal: if he is actually the model of decency and moral fiber and did in fact follow up on his report and was outraged by the lack of action, wouldn’t he have just quit? I mean, how can someone so pious (for lack of a better term) just let it go and continue to work with all these slimeballs? [/quote]

I’m trying my best to guide you and keep you on track but you keep making the same errors.

First, no one is saying “Joe got a raw deal”. Most reasonable people believe he deserved to be fired because he was in fact the “captain of the ship”. Right or wrong, like the QB on the football team, it goes with the territory.

The only thing most reasonable people are saying concerning Joe is that we simply do not know what he knew and when he knew it. In order to evaluate someone’s moral responsibility, we must know what he knew, what he did in response to what he knew, and when he knew it. It’s really simple. And until we know these things, we cannot fairly render a judgment on what Joe should have done. If at the end of the day, when the fact are aired, and if he was found wanting, then so be it. I have no connection to Penn State (other than a “nephew” that just signed a LOI to play basketball there), can’t remember ever watching a college football game start to finish and Joe Paterno (or any other man for that matter) is no “hero” of mine.

[/quote]

Yep…I told you we agreed on the important stuff…we are all reasonable people here (for the most part) I believe he should have told the whole story to the board of regents and allowed to state his case before firing.

But I understand they had to do what they did.

858

[quote]tom63 wrote:

These creeps ate everywhere. They’re sneaky. They fool people. They do horrible things.
[/quote]

I can’t believe so many people do not understand the above.

Predators do not ply their trade in the light. They are usually someone trusted. For some reason, and I don’t know why, people here have latched onto Joe lamenting in hindsight that he wished he did more (as if it were an admission of his guilt instead of a proclamation from a man troubled by the horrendous allegations) and they have completely ignored his other quote regarding how Sandusky had a lot of people fooled, even some experts.

The perverts ply their trade, day in and day out, right under the noses of MANY people.

Mistakes from malpractice to even plane crashes are rarely some egregious error; they are usually a bunch of small, minor misjudgments and errors that when added together result in a catastrophic result. In hindsight, the errors seem glaring. But in real time, not so much so.

Let’s wait for the facts to pass judgment on a man that has by ALL ACCOUNTS done much good with his life. Is that so crazy a concept?

859

Earlier in this thread I detailed how a pervert tried to do this to me. Two very close friend’s experienced much worse than an attempted grope. None of us reported anything . The guy who tried to grope me molested a friend much earlier and much worse . None of us came forward for various reasons . One reason it was the 1970s. Another was dealing with the aftermath and shame.

But Paterno and McQueary did try to do something while we just tried to deal with our personal situation. This is why until I know everything I will back anyone who tries to stop this stuff.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:

These creeps ate everywhere. They’re sneaky. They fool people. They do horrible things.
[/quote]

I can’t believe so many people do not understand the above.

Predators do not ply their trade in the light. They are usually someone trusted. For some reason, and I don’t know why, people here have latched onto Joe lamenting in hindsight that he wished he did more (as if it were an admission of his guilt instead of a proclamation from a man troubled by the horrendous allegations) and they have completely ignored his other quote regarding how Sandusky had a lot of people fooled, even some experts.

The perverts ply their trade, day in and day out, right under the noses of MANY people.

Mistakes from malpractice to even plane crashes are rarely some egregious error; they are usually a bunch of small, minor misjudgments and errors that when added together result in a catastrophic result. In hindsight, the errors seem glaring. But in real time, not so much so.

Let’s wait for the facts to pass judgment on a man that has by ALL ACCOUNTS done much good with his life. Is that so crazy a concept?[/quote]

860

BG, I get you’re point. In fact, I got it the first time you made it. But, you’re so intent on talking at people instead of with them and “hearing yourself talk” that it’s impossible to have an intelligent debate with you. You just repeat yourself ad nauseum and talk down to anyone that doesn’t agree with you. You can respond to this in any fashion you like. I’m done arguing with you.