I’ve been doing some more research on post workout nutrition and found out that some mfckers use low GI carbs (oatmeal, bran, etc.) for their immediate post workout meal. They say the “whey protein will provide enough of an insulin spike (whey alone will induce insulin response, since whey is digested rather quickly resulting in a large supply of amino acids for the body to use. large amount of amino acids will induce insulin response) so don’t bother with dextrose/maltodextrin. These 2 fast acting carbs will only provide you with fat accumulation.”
Normally I would just shrug these goofs off but thier well respected members and are backing thier talk up with medical stuff and s***. From ANYTHING and EVRYTHING Ive read (except from these guys) one needs a fast acting carb to shuttle the “proper nutrients” into the muscle cells after a workout.
I understand your confusion, but I’ll lend what I know to the situation. I’m sure others will chime in later.
Basically, some studies have been done to show that amino acids (primarily the essential amino acids) are sufficient to cause an increase in protein synthesis after training. While adding glucose increased synthesis above a mixed amino acid mixture it didn’t significantly improve on the essential amino acid mixture. At this point it should be noted the glucose releases insulin and should be expected to decrease breakdown rather than increase synthesis. So…some research has shown that protein and carbs are no better than essential aminos by themselves. While this MAY be the situation we also might want to consider the fact that protein alone (while still causing an insulin spike) probably doesn’t replenish muscle glycogen.
That’s about the extent of my understanding. Anyone else feel free to input their thoughts.
a combination of both is ideally the best that’s why in t-mag they usally recommend surge and then low glycemic carbs an hour later. You should be drinking your surge before you begin training and finish it by the time you are done. this gives you ample time to digest and then have a full meal. That’s what i follow. Also realize that the carbs are not added to specifically induce an insulin response since as “they” said the protein will also do it; the carbs are there to replenish glycogen levels. laters pk
In all honesty, I don’t think it’s a closed issue. Research in this area is still a hot topic. In the meantime, I don’t think that taking carbs after your workout will add much (if any) fat mass.
As for why T-mag suggests that we use Surge, I think the reason is twofold. First I think it works and there is no reason (based on research) to conclude otherwise. Secondly, they are associated with Biotest so it isn’t in their best interest to state otherwise.
I too have read the same things. All I can really say is to give it a try yourself and see what happens. I will try out their advice once I finish off my 10 lbs of maltodextrin and 10 lbs of dextrose.
Your body knows best? Experiment. I used to make a Surge-like concoction with simple sugars and hydrolyzed protein and always had a little extra fat hanging around no matter how much training I did. By that I mean I was lean, 6-7% bf, but still had some extra fat by the lower abdomen. I switched to getting rid of simple sugars completely from my diet, and started using uncooked oatbran with some banana baby food and vanilla whey isolate. Tastes unbelievable and the fat I was holding, shed away. Lesson learned?-My body didn’t respond well to the dextrose.
Like loopfit I dont respond well to the dextrose either. I now use a mix of maltodextrin and inulin (a very slow digesting carb source) with 2 scoop of a very good whey isolate that also contains egg and 30% hydrosolate. This works the best for me. Ive dabbled in the dextrose thing while lean, as that is when its easiest to see how things affect my body. I could visually see fat accumulating around the bellybutton area after a couple of weeks, while not noticing any significant change in muscle size. Im not saying that the dextrose and malto mixture doesnt work for mass, but I prefer to add lean tissue while minimizing the amount of fat I will later have to strip away for my shows.
I find this a little hard to believe. There is very little difference b/w dextrose and maltodextrin from a ‘sugar’ standpoint. Malto actually has a slightly higher GI than dextrose does and behaves just as much like sugar as dextrose does. The major difference between the two is simply an issue of osmolality.
It makes sense to tailor your post-workout carb intake to your workout needs, and your own responses.
I personally am a fan of swallowing down a 1:1 protein:carb shake straight after a workout. since I’m doing high volume training for hyperplasia at the moment, I find that this helps replace depleted glycogen and I’m less wiped out the next day (or that afternoon, when I’m supposed to be working).
And for a light meal about an hour after that I use a little Indian lentil called Channa (I guess you’d call it a chickpea). Ayurveda suggests that its ricgh in bioavailable protein, complex carbs, but light on simple carbs. With the skin (testa) on it also has a good bit of fibre too. Best of all, its about US $1.00 per kilogram. Dunno… what do you guys think?
I’d have to say that I find it a bit difficult to believe as well. Everything that I’ve ever seen in the gym - both with my own body and those of the people I’ve trained - has supported the idea that high GI carbs both during and post-workout are shuttled more or less directly into the muscles. I’ve never had any problems with fat gain or even retention while cutting and using Surge. I don’t think that those carbs even go into glycogen replenishment; they just get used for muscle tissue repair.
Still, everyone’s different and I’m not going to call anyone a liar here. Maybe there are some people who respond better and I’ve just never met them. Nevertheless, I think that short of performing an actual experiment on your own body, the case is more or less open and shut for using high-GI carbs and whey isolate protein after your workout.
I agree with the confusion above. I've found that for ME, high GI carbs immediately post workout plus lower GI carbs work best. For instance, right after I get home from a tough session, I down a whey shake + a fairly large sized bowl of frosted flakes. After about 30 minutes (shower and whatever) I eat a couple chicken breasts and some lower GI carbs like old school oatmeal. In the past I tried all low GI carbs PWO and did not see the kind of progress I am seeing now. Experiment and see what works for you. And of course, let us know! The training forum is an excellent subject pool for all of us quasi-scientists. Good luck and train hard!
