I think life is full of choices which we have to make. Sometimes, they are difficult ones and we just have to make them, to distinguish us from theweaker members of our society.
In perspective of what I have read thus far, I think you need to leave her, since both of you cheated, and whenever you will be intimate again, both will have images of the “other” person whom you cheated with. Then, you will start comparing.
You sound like a guy who is ambitious, by wanting to get ahead in life (College, own a house, etc) and if she is impeding all these things from happening, then she should be out. If she was understanding and supportive, then she should be with you supporting those dreams.
Finally, you keep saying that you miss her. The question is; does she miss you? Especially since she left.
I am in no way blaming her for any wrong doing, but it does sound that someone is more guilty than the other.
[quote]makkun wrote:
People sleep with others, although they love their partners - only lying about it makes it cheating. [/quote]
WTF?
Somehow I can’t see this going over real well with my wife.
“Honey I’m home! By the way I screwed a Hooters waitress today at lunch. But hey, I told you about it so you can’t say I cheated. So, what’s for dinner?”
There’s something seriously wrong with the fact that she stayed in CA and simply informed you that she wasn’t coming back. I don’t know all the ins and outs of your situation, but do you really want to be with someone who plays that kind of a power game?
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
makkun wrote:
People sleep with others, although they love their partners - only lying about it makes it cheating.
WTF?
Somehow I can’t see this going over real well with my wife.
“Honey I’m home! By the way I screwed a Hooters waitress today at lunch. But hey, I told you about it so you can’t say I cheated. So, what’s for dinner?”[/quote]
Super saiyan,
You don’t know what you’re missing.
I know this is not a very popular view, and it’s a little over the top. What I meant is: If you’re not in an open relationship, it is bad to sleep with someone else - but lying about it makes it even worse. Stuff you know can be bad, but can be worked out (even if it means splitting up) - stuff that is being held from you can and will in the end hurt both even more. So if you fuck up (literally and metaphorically), be honest about it and face the consequences. In my book, sleeping with someone else is a lesser “sin” than lying to your partner. That’s the worst thing you can do.
I have a couple of things to say after reading about your troubles.
Firstly, I think nephrom has a point about the way she said she just wasn’t coming back…that is a shitty way to approach a subject and she loses points for that one big time.
However, having said that, you met her in Cali, which I assume is where she grew up, or at least lived for some time. I assume that before she met you she had no ideas or desires to live anywhere else. Therefore, if she was willing to move across the country because that is what you wanted to do…she gets major points for that.
It turns out that she wanted to return to where she lives and she has the right to do that. You don’t have the upper hand here with respect on the living location because you moved to Cali (in the beginning) of your own volition, and subsequently met her there. Give her credit for trying to live across the other side of the country because that’s what you wanted.
With respect to the cheating, you brought that shit on yourself…sorry mate but as the story was unfolding I read that off a mile away…and for me that is a hard one, I don’t think I would get over it even if I had cheated first. But if you can and it sort of sounds like you should at least give it a shot…good luck to you.
I think it is difficult for anyone to really say whether or not the decisions you make/made are the right ones. Cheating is a very debatable topic. It is always so easy to put the blame on someone else, or say that what the other person did is worse and bla bla bla. No one knows exactly what your relationship is like, nor do we know all the details of your ups and downs. However, if you’re going to try to save a relationship, if both of your are willing to try again, to make it work, to give it another shot, then I do think honesty is the best policy. Had you not told her about “the girl”, it would have lingered in your mind forever…if you’re going to start over, better start fresh than start with a big lie already hanging in front of your nose, know what I mean?
A relationship is not something that is easily understood. And so many factors come into play when dealing with a decision regarding whether or not to pursue it. There is a very fine line between working at a relationship, as we all should, and then working so much that there are no “good times”. That being said, a relationship in which both parties are willing to put in an effort here and there, and sacrifice something here and there, has more chances of working out longterm than either of the other two extremes (constantly working at the relationship too much or not working on it at all).
In my opinion, having been honest will give you both a fresh start at this. I wish you both the best.
Makkun - with all due respect I think what you said is wrong.
Q. Why is lying so bad in a relationship?
A. Because it is a betrayal of the love and trust that the other party has given you? Because if you are lying about something the trust they had in you to do the right thing is obviously misgiven.
Q. Why is infidelity so bad to a relationship?
A. For the same reasons stated above.
The way I operate in my relationship is to conduct myself by the rule “don’t do or act in a way that I wouldn’t/couldn’t if my fiance was right next to me” - this way I will never betray her trust or love and will never have any guilty conscience.
[quote]stucross wrote:
Makkun - with all due respect I think what you said is wrong.
Q. Why is lying so bad in a relationship?
A. Because it is a betrayal of the love and trust that the other party has given you? Because if you are lying about something the trust they had in you to do the right thing is obviously misgiven.[/quote]
I do agree with that, I would even go further: Lying is not only bad in context with other people, but for your own personal integrity. It makes you a phony.
[quote]Q. Why is infidelity so bad to a relationship?
A. For the same reasons stated above.
The way I operate in my relationship is to conduct myself by the rule “don’t do or act in a way that I wouldn’t/couldn’t if my fiance was right next to me” - this way I will never betray her trust or love and will never have any guilty conscience.
[/quote]
I agree to this mostly aswell. If you read my post again, you will see that I think that you have act according to the rules set in a relationship: If it’s open, go ahead, but be honest about it - if it’s not, don’t go ahead.
Having seen so many couples cheating on each other (stepping out of the relationship and lying about it), I have made the decision though, that I regard the lying part as worse: Infidelity can be dealt with in many cases, when partners find out about the reasons; it is not nice, and it might break up the relationship, but there still is a chance.
Lying questions everything that you ever say or do - even the seemingly “honest” attempt to solve problems, because, well you might be lying about that too. No chance there anymore.
In context with malonetd’s original post (I don’t want to hijack this thread), I think the two of them have a chance to solve their problems if they are honest with each other - acknowledging, but not exagerating the importance of their respective sleeping with externals. And for that, I wish them my best.
“There’s something seriously wrong with the fact that she stayed in CA and simply informed you that she wasn’t coming back.” -I agree with this.
My first impression with this is where is the COMMITTMENT? I think a new focus needs to be established, based upon basic marriage vows (love, honor, cherish, forsake all others, etc.) Those old fashioned vows serve a definite purpose toward a strong relationship. For example the idea that you each get one free infidelity is contrary to the vow to forsake others and that kind of thinking only weakens your relationship by leaving the door open to problems, look how destructive it’s been on your relationship already…but you CAN learn from it and maybe create an even stronger relationship. If you change your thinking to be more committed to each other and use traditional principles of marriage as a basis, you could have a stronger relationship and be happier. You could learn from both of your mistakes in order to re-create your committment to one another and have an even better relationsip. Have you ever considered a relationship retreat through a church or relationship counseling? Anyway, that’s my 2 cents. Good luck with everything. I hope you two are able to be happy.
Let me get this right…you both cheated while separated, but you asked for details!!! Then she answered not only with details, but based on your reference to the other guy’s stamina, she appears to have implied she had better sex with the other guy than you.
Prediction: ain’t no way in hell you’ll ever be able to get past that conversation/image of the wife being balled by another guy better than by you, and you’re fooling yourself if you believe otherwise. Hell, she probably won’t be able to get past the experience herself! Sometimes, “love” just ain’t enough, bubba…
[quote]stucross wrote:
Q. Why is infidelity so bad to a relationship?
A. For the same reasons stated above.[/quote]
Q. Why is extramarital sex infidelity?
A. Because the people who got married decided it was against the rules.
It should be reasonably obvious that you can at any time decide – as a COUPLE – that extramarital sex is just fine. Then it’s not infidelity anymore, and you’ll probably be surprised at how much BETTER it can make your relationship.
[quote]CDarklock wrote:
It should be reasonably obvious that you can at any time decide – as a COUPLE – that extramarital sex is just fine. Then it’s not infidelity anymore, and you’ll probably be surprised at how much BETTER it can make your relationship.[/quote]
Wow. This just sucks. A similar situation occurred to me when I was younger. It was a long-term (4+ years) sometimes long-distance relationship but no marriage. She cheated. I didn’t. We split up. We missed each other. I was a hollow shell of a boy without her [OR SO I THOUGHT]. We tried getting back together. I should have known better - known that I wouldn’t let it go and we wouldn’t get past it.
It sounds like you want different things. You want the midwest but feel guilted “back to her” by the cheating. She wants California but feels guilted “back to you” by the cheating. Maybe that sounds harsh, but just remember how this situation developed - you brought it all on, and it’s tuff (not impossible) to get back up that slippery slope.
If you can both deal, then try again. But I am taking the position of the eternal pessimist. IMHO, if counseling is needed, it’s too late.
Fortunately for you there are no kids involved, and whatever happens is best for the right reasons and not “for the kids.” Divorce is bad but only SUCKS when children are involved.
[quote]makkun wrote:
CDarklock wrote:
It should be reasonably obvious that you can at any time decide – as a COUPLE – that extramarital sex is just fine. Then it’s not infidelity anymore, and you’ll probably be surprised at how much BETTER it can make your relationship.
Hear, hear!
I fully endorse that view.
Makkun[/quote]
That’s f*cked guys. Either be in a relationship or don’t.
[quote]The Cardinal wrote:
Let me get this right…you both cheated while separated, but you asked for details!!! Then she answered not only with details, but based on your reference to the other guy’s stamina, she appears to have implied she had better sex with the other guy than you.
[/quote]
Whoa, let me explain here. She never said he was better. I just asked how long they “went at it”. She said it was probably because they were drinking, and she reminded me of a couple times we had drunk sex. I last a longer when I’m drunk, I think most men do.
Anyway, she did tell me that it was better with me. Maybe she’s just saying that. I don’t know.
I do know through my experience that, even though it was exciting and new to have sex with someone different, it didn’t compare to sex with my wife. With emotions and the way we know each other and each other’s bodies it makes it that much better.
For me, the only thing great about sex with a new person is just the excitement that it was someone you never had sex with. I’m hoping she feels the same way.
Just to emphasize it once again: I think it is important that malonetd and his wife concentrate on first finding out what they want for themselves, and then from each other. If they don’t manage it without help, marriage counseling is a good option. Concentrating too much on the external sex stuff can keep them away from looking for the real reasons why they are, where they are.
For further discussion on polygamy (or other habits), I would suggest looking up the respective thread some time ago.
[quote]BFG wrote:
makkun wrote:
CDarklock wrote:
It should be reasonably obvious that you can at any time decide – as a COUPLE – that extramarital sex is just fine. Then it’s not infidelity anymore, and you’ll probably be surprised at how much BETTER it can make your relationship.
Hear, hear!
I fully endorse that view.
Makkun
That’s f*cked guys. Either be in a relationship or don’t.
Bastard F*ck Guy[/quote]
I’m so glad you said that, BFG. I don’t see how infidelity can strengthen any relationship (scratching my head)…look how destructive it is. How can something so destructive be healthy for a relationship? Just MHO. Anyway, I hope you guys can work past it and make it work, if that’s what you want, the best of luck to you!
chinadoll:)
Thanks for everyone’s advice, support and input. I appreciate it. I do want to wrk it out and I do think we will probably get some type of outside help.
I don’t want to go out and think everything is fine and down the road we keep fighting and agruing the same old topics.
One thing I would like to ask of the readers here is advice to get past and get over infidelity, for both of us. Is there anyone out there that has cheated or been cheated on and you are still with that person? I would like to hear how any married (or unmarried) couples coped with that.
Anyway, to keep you posted, we are still working on the details of me getting out there. The apartment owner here is letting me out of the lease with no penalties, so that will be helpful. So we’re making progress. I just think it’s important that I get out there quickly, we have already been apart for over two months and I don’t want us to unintentionally drift apart.
