Would You Vote to Bomb Iran?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

As for the holocaust denial, the Iranian translation is this:

“‘If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.’ […] ‘If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.’ […] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets […] The president further said, ‘If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.’”

That, and other passages from the speech that I cannot find on short notice, but. have actually read a year ago, may express some doubt whether the whole holocaust business went down the way it is usually reported, but that was not his point.

His point was that IF IT DID the way the Europeans report it, why the myth of the holocaust should be used to create a state in the ME even though they had nothing to do with it.

Myth, not as is in “hey, it did not happen”, but in “hey you are building a folklore around it justifying all sorts of things with it”. He is not alone in this, I can point to perfectly respectable Jewish authors who complained about the very same thing, though not in the same context.

So, my stance now is this:

Has he denied the holocaust? Not outright, but he expressed doubts.

However, his main point was that if the Europeans say that this is what happened, why Palestine and not Bavaria?

122

[quote]orion wrote:
Ah well, then I will post the speech AGAIN:
…
A few comments:

a) this is the speech in the form of the translation the NY Times used originally.

b) the “wiped off the map” thing is still in there, even though it should have been clear from the start that there is no reason whatsoever to believe that this expression even exists in Farsi.

c) the context makes it clear that the “occupying REGIME” should, more correctly translated “vanish from the pages of time/history” as the Iranian Sha regime and the Eastern Empire (the Sowjet Union) has.

As far as I know both Russians and Iranians are still alive and well and nobody was physically wiped off anything, neither a map nor anything else even though those regimes are gone. [/quote]

When one engages in shameless sophistry–for example, accepting the innocence of the phrase “ending the ZIonist regime,” which is everywhere, inside and outside of Iran, understood as a euphemism for the elimination of the state and the people of Israel–one accepts his role as a “useful idiot.” This is your burden, as the Ahmadinapologist. You seem to revel in it.

“Today, it is clear that Israel is the most hated regime in the worldâ?¦ It is not useful for its masters [the West] anymore. They are in doubt now. They wonder whether to continue spending money on this regime or notâ?¦But whether they want it or not, with God’s grace, this regime will be annihilated and Palestinians and other regional nations will be rid of its bad omen.”

Ahmadinejad, March 11, 2010.

There are dozens more of such statements, easily searchable. When the “regime” is “annihilated,” just how many Israelis will die? None? Ten percent? All? To deny the murderous intent, to compare this phrase fatuously to the internal political change of the “Sowjet” regime, is to wallow in intentional stupidity. That degree of intentional stupidity is nothing more than indefensible malice.

123

[quote]orion wrote:
As for the holocaust denial, the Iranian translation is this:

“‘If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.’ […] ‘If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.’ […] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets […] The president further said, ‘If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.’”

That, and other passages from the speech that I cannot find on short notice, but. have actually read a year ago, may express some doubt whether the whole holocaust business went down the way it is usually reported, but that was not his point.

His point was that IF IT DID the way the Europeans report it, why the myth of the holocaust should be used to create a state in the ME even though they had nothing to do with it.

Myth, not as is in “hey, it did not happen”, but in “hey you are building a folklore around it justifying all sorts of things with it”. He is not alone in this, I can point to perfectly respectable Jewish authors who complained about the very same thing, though not in the same context.

So, my stance now is this:

Has he denied the holocaust? Not outright, but he expressed doubts.

However, his main point was that if the Europeans say that this is what happened, why Palestine and not Bavaria?[/quote]

You are again wrong, or purposefully lying to yourself to sell some politicized crap:

August 26, 2011

“The Zionist regime’s establishment was based on numerous deceptions and lies and one of the biggest lies was the Holocaust.”

(Address at Tehran University on Quds Day)

This, by Ahmadinnajacket, is a lie in every regard. Whether he chooses to use it as a political statement, or thesis, or weapon, is irrelevant; using a lie for political purposes does not convert it to a truth, it does not make it acceptable, and it does not make for a legitimate historical and political argument. Not even in Austria.

124

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Ah well, then I will post the speech AGAIN:
…
A few comments:

a) this is the speech in the form of the translation the NY Times used originally.

b) the “wiped off the map” thing is still in there, even though it should have been clear from the start that there is no reason whatsoever to believe that this expression even exists in Farsi.

c) the context makes it clear that the “occupying REGIME” should, more correctly translated “vanish from the pages of time/history” as the Iranian Sha regime and the Eastern Empire (the Sowjet Union) has.

As far as I know both Russians and Iranians are still alive and well and nobody was physically wiped off anything, neither a map nor anything else even though those regimes are gone. [/quote]

When one engages in shameless sophistry–for example, accepting the innocence of the phrase “ending the ZIonist regime,” which is everywhere, inside and outside of Iran, understood as a euphemism for the elimination of the state and the people of Israel–one accepts his role as a “useful idiot.” This is your burden, as the Ahmadinapologist. You seem to revel in it.

“Today, it is clear that Israel is the most hated regime in the worldâ?¦ It is not useful for its masters [the West] anymore. They are in doubt now. They wonder whether to continue spending money on this regime or notâ?¦But whether they want it or not, with God’s grace, this regime will be annihilated and Palestinians and other regional nations will be rid of its bad omen.”

Ahmadinejad, March 11, 2010.

There are dozens more of such statements, easily searchable. When the “regime” is “annihilated,” just how many Israelis will die? None? Ten percent? All? To deny the murderous intent, to compare this phrase fatuously to the internal political change of the “Sowjet” regime, is to wallow in intentional stupidity. That degree of intentional stupidity is nothing more than indefensible malice.[/quote]

I dont see how what he ALLEGEDLY said at some point or other does relate in any way shape or form to him NOT calling “for Israel to be wiped of the map”.

Also, he specifically mentioned the Sowjet Union in his speech, so “to compare it” is a question of basic reading comprehension.

You can look that up under “context”.

But I doubt that a warmongering propagandist would be willing to admit that.

125

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
As for the holocaust denial, the Iranian translation is this:

“‘If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.’ […] ‘If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.’ […] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets […] The president further said, ‘If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.’”

That, and other passages from the speech that I cannot find on short notice, but. have actually read a year ago, may express some doubt whether the whole holocaust business went down the way it is usually reported, but that was not his point.

His point was that IF IT DID the way the Europeans report it, why the myth of the holocaust should be used to create a state in the ME even though they had nothing to do with it.

Myth, not as is in “hey, it did not happen”, but in “hey you are building a folklore around it justifying all sorts of things with it”. He is not alone in this, I can point to perfectly respectable Jewish authors who complained about the very same thing, though not in the same context.

So, my stance now is this:

Has he denied the holocaust? Not outright, but he expressed doubts.

However, his main point was that if the Europeans say that this is what happened, why Palestine and not Bavaria?[/quote]

You are again wrong, or purposefully lying to yourself to sell some politicized crap:

August 26, 2011

“The Zionist regime’s establishment was based on numerous deceptions and lies and one of the biggest lies was the Holocaust.”

(Address at Tehran University on Quds Day)

This, by Ahmadinnajacket, is a lie in every regard. Whether he chooses to use it as a political statement, or thesis, or weapon, is irrelevant; using a lie for political purposes does not convert it to a truth, it does not make it acceptable, and it does not make for a legitimate historical and political argument. Not even in Austria.
[/quote]

Whole speech, text.

126

His letter to Angela Merkel:

I have no intention of arguing about the Holocaust. But, does it not stand to reason that some victorious countries of World War II intended to create an alibi on the basis of which they could continue keeping the defeated nations of World War II indebted to them. Their purpose has been to weaken their morale and their inspiration in order to obstruct their progress and power. In addition to the people of Germany, the peoples of the Middle East have also borne the brunt of the Holocaust. By raising the necessity of settling the survivors of the Holocaust in the land of Palestine, they have created a permanent threat in the Middle East in order to rob the people of the region of the opportunities to achieve progress. The collective conscience of the world is indignant over the daily atrocities by the Zionist occupiers, destruction of homes and farms, killing of children, assassinations and bombardments.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8506060558

Here, he states that the West has created an alibi to keep the losing nation of WWII indebted to them.

He claims that the people of ME and Germany have borne the brunt of the holocaust.

This statement makes no sense whatsoever, unless he thinks that the myth surrounding the holocaust is the “alibi” he was referring to a few sentences above.

This guy does not care whether the holocaust happened or not.

That is not his problem.

His problem is that he does not see why he has shit in his backyard going on because of it, even if it went down exactly as reported.

edited

127

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
As for the holocaust denial, the Iranian translation is this:

“‘If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.’ […] ‘If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.’ […] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets […] The president further said, ‘If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.’”

That, and other passages from the speech that I cannot find on short notice, but. have actually read a year ago, may express some doubt whether the whole holocaust business went down the way it is usually reported, but that was not his point.

His point was that IF IT DID the way the Europeans report it, why the myth of the holocaust should be used to create a state in the ME even though they had nothing to do with it.

Myth, not as is in “hey, it did not happen”, but in “hey you are building a folklore around it justifying all sorts of things with it”. He is not alone in this, I can point to perfectly respectable Jewish authors who complained about the very same thing, though not in the same context.

So, my stance now is this:

Has he denied the holocaust? Not outright, but he expressed doubts.

However, his main point was that if the Europeans say that this is what happened, why Palestine and not Bavaria?[/quote]

You are again wrong, or purposefully lying to yourself to sell some politicized crap:

August 26, 2011

“The Zionist regime’s establishment was based on numerous deceptions and lies and one of the biggest lies was the Holocaust.”

(Address at Tehran University on Quds Day)

This, by Ahmadinnajacket, is a lie in every regard. Whether he chooses to use it as a political statement, or thesis, or weapon, is irrelevant; using a lie for political purposes does not convert it to a truth, it does not make it acceptable, and it does not make for a legitimate historical and political argument. Not even in Austria.
[/quote]

Whole speech, text. [/quote]

I provide the citation–you go look it up. Then tell us all about its peaceful intention, how it was misgtranslated (by his own Iranian news organization), how the poor man is misunderstood, repeatedly, over 20 years.

That quote is a lie, it is contextualized as a lie. And you are an apologist for a liar.

128

[quote]orion wrote:
His letter to Angela Merkel:

I have no intention of arguing about the Holocaust. But, does it not stand to reason that some victorious countries of World War II intended to create an alibi on the basis of which they could continue keeping the defeated nations of World War II indebted to them. Their purpose has been to weaken their morale and their inspiration in order to obstruct their progress and power. In addition to the people of Germany, the peoples of the Middle East have also borne the brunt of the Holocaust. By raising the necessity of settling the survivors of the Holocaust in the land of Palestine, they have created a permanent threat in the Middle East in order to rob the people of the region of the opportunities to achieve progress. The collective conscience of the world is indignant over the daily atrocities by the Zionist occupiers, destruction of homes and farms, killing of children, assassinations and bombardments.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8506060558

Here, he states that the West has created an alibi to keep the losing nation of WWII indebted to them.

He claims that the people of ME and Germany have borne the brunt of the holocaust.

This statement makes no sense whatsoever,…[/quote]

like the rest of your garbled apology.

You suppose the people of the ME and Germany suffered more, in your opinion, than those of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Jews, Roma…And this justifies Iran’s threats against the West in general and Israel and the US in particular.

This is filth; filth in the guise of “fair and balanced” analysis of motivation. But it is filth, nevertheless, in which you choose to wallow.

129

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
As for the holocaust denial, the Iranian translation is this:

“‘If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.’ […] ‘If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.’ […] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets […] The president further said, ‘If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.’”

That, and other passages from the speech that I cannot find on short notice, but. have actually read a year ago, may express some doubt whether the whole holocaust business went down the way it is usually reported, but that was not his point.

His point was that IF IT DID the way the Europeans report it, why the myth of the holocaust should be used to create a state in the ME even though they had nothing to do with it.

Myth, not as is in “hey, it did not happen”, but in “hey you are building a folklore around it justifying all sorts of things with it”. He is not alone in this, I can point to perfectly respectable Jewish authors who complained about the very same thing, though not in the same context.

So, my stance now is this:

Has he denied the holocaust? Not outright, but he expressed doubts.

However, his main point was that if the Europeans say that this is what happened, why Palestine and not Bavaria?[/quote]

You are again wrong, or purposefully lying to yourself to sell some politicized crap:

August 26, 2011

“The Zionist regime’s establishment was based on numerous deceptions and lies and one of the biggest lies was the Holocaust.”

(Address at Tehran University on Quds Day)

This, by Ahmadinnajacket, is a lie in every regard. Whether he chooses to use it as a political statement, or thesis, or weapon, is irrelevant; using a lie for political purposes does not convert it to a truth, it does not make it acceptable, and it does not make for a legitimate historical and political argument. Not even in Austria.
[/quote]

Whole speech, text. [/quote]

I provide the citation–you go look it up. Then tell us all about its peaceful intention, how it was misgtranslated (by his own Iranian news organization), how the poor man is misunderstood, repeatedly, over 20 years.

That quote is a lie, it is contextualized as a lie. And you are an apologist for a liar.

[/quote]

I have posted the whole text of his 2005 speech, which clearly shows that he was taken out of context and deliberately misinterpreted, so the western media at least fucked up once already.

Also, you claim he said something, you prove it.

130

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
His letter to Angela Merkel:

I have no intention of arguing about the Holocaust. But, does it not stand to reason that some victorious countries of World War II intended to create an alibi on the basis of which they could continue keeping the defeated nations of World War II indebted to them. Their purpose has been to weaken their morale and their inspiration in order to obstruct their progress and power. In addition to the people of Germany, the peoples of the Middle East have also borne the brunt of the Holocaust. By raising the necessity of settling the survivors of the Holocaust in the land of Palestine, they have created a permanent threat in the Middle East in order to rob the people of the region of the opportunities to achieve progress. The collective conscience of the world is indignant over the daily atrocities by the Zionist occupiers, destruction of homes and farms, killing of children, assassinations and bombardments.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8506060558

Here, he states that the West has created an alibi to keep the losing nation of WWII indebted to them.

He claims that the people of ME and Germany have borne the brunt of the holocaust.

This statement makes no sense whatsoever,…[/quote]

like the rest of your garbled apology.

You suppose the people of the ME and Germany suffered more, in your opinion, than those of Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Jews, Roma…And this justifies Iran’s threats against the West in general and Israel and the US in particular.

This is filth; filth in the guise of “fair and balanced” analysis of motivation. But it is filth, nevertheless, in which you choose to wallow.

[/quote]

Are you deliberately idiotic?

I posted, and I quote: ah I cant from your post, because you cut my post off precisely when I came to the point.

Not an idiot, a liar then.

You understand my point perfectly well, you just dont like it and have no argument against it.

Off you fuck then.

132

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
There are days when I am utterly amazed that people will cling to any nonsense that is roughly 10 seconds of a search away from being debunked.

Oh well…[/quote]

…for example, where you repeatedly deny the obvious?
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/DrSkeptix#myForums/thread/4471991/
(and pages following)[/quote]

If that is Ahmadinejad is a holocaust denier thread, granted…
[/quote]

Whoa!

It only took 14 months for you to admit that I / we were right and you were wrong!

Well done!
[/quote]

I know why you are so impressed, because for this board that was lightning fast!

Small miracle that it happened at all!

[/quote]
So, basically, your argument is “At least I’m better than the Nazis.”[/quote]

There is a lot that could be said about PWI, but we never built no concentration camp.

Or highways.

So there. [/quote]

I’ll take that as a yes.

You really should learn to stop excusing your own behavior by pointing out that someone else is worse.[/quote]

I was saying that yall are no nazis.

Thats it, mandatory reading comprehension classes for PWI.

134

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
There are days when I am utterly amazed that people will cling to any nonsense that is roughly 10 seconds of a search away from being debunked.

Oh well…[/quote]

…for example, where you repeatedly deny the obvious?
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/DrSkeptix#myForums/thread/4471991/
(and pages following)[/quote]

If that is Ahmadinejad is a holocaust denier thread, granted…
[/quote]

Whoa!

It only took 14 months for you to admit that I / we were right and you were wrong!

Well done!
[/quote]

I know why you are so impressed, because for this board that was lightning fast!

Small miracle that it happened at all!

[/quote]
So, basically, your argument is “At least I’m better than the Nazis.”[/quote]

There is a lot that could be said about PWI, but we never built no concentration camp.

Or highways.

So there. [/quote]

I’ll take that as a yes.

You really should learn to stop excusing your own behavior by pointing out that someone else is worse.[/quote]

I was saying that yall are no nazis.

Thats it, mandatory reading comprehension classes for PWI.[/quote]

Oh, I can read well enough.

Well enough to identify an intellectual coward when I see one, anyway.[/quote]

Yeah, tell me when you find one.

135

None of you speak Farsi?!

Seems like a bunch of blind people talking about Van Gogh’s use of color in Starry Night.

136

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
None of you speak Farsi?!

Seems like a bunch of blind people talking about Van Gogh’s use of color in Starry Night.[/quote]

No, but I speak reading comprehension and going to original sources instead of the predigested media version practically fluently.

That seems to be so rare a gift that I am practically a demi-god.

137

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
As for the holocaust denial, the Iranian translation is this:

“‘If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.’ […] ‘If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.’ […] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets […] The president further said, ‘If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.’”

That, and other passages from the speech that I cannot find on short notice, but. have actually read a year ago, may express some doubt whether the whole holocaust business went down the way it is usually reported, but that was not his point.

His point was that IF IT DID the way the Europeans report it, why the myth of the holocaust should be used to create a state in the ME even though they had nothing to do with it.

Myth, not as is in “hey, it did not happen”, but in “hey you are building a folklore around it justifying all sorts of things with it”. He is not alone in this, I can point to perfectly respectable Jewish authors who complained about the very same thing, though not in the same context.

So, my stance now is this:

Has he denied the holocaust? Not outright, but he expressed doubts.

However, his main point was that if the Europeans say that this is what happened, why Palestine and not Bavaria?[/quote]

You are again wrong, or purposefully lying to yourself to sell some politicized crap:

August 26, 2011

“The Zionist regime’s establishment was based on numerous deceptions and lies and one of the biggest lies was the Holocaust.”

(Address at Tehran University on Quds Day)

This, by Ahmadinnajacket, is a lie in every regard. Whether he chooses to use it as a political statement, or thesis, or weapon, is irrelevant; using a lie for political purposes does not convert it to a truth, it does not make it acceptable, and it does not make for a legitimate historical and political argument. Not even in Austria.
[/quote]

Whole speech, text. [/quote]

I provide the citation–you go look it up. Then tell us all about its peaceful intention, how it was misgtranslated (by his own Iranian news organization), how the poor man is misunderstood, repeatedly, over 20 years.

That quote is a lie, it is contextualized as a lie. And you are an apologist for a liar.

[/quote]

I have posted the whole text of his 2005 speech, which clearly shows that he was taken out of context and deliberately misinterpreted, so the western media at least fucked up once already.

Also, you claim he said something, you prove it.

[/quote]

But Dear Demi-God Ahmadinapologist, this is precisely the same speech which you yourself , on the previous page, AGREED was an example–FINALLY–of Holocaust Denial.

Is the Demi-God confused by fact? Or is He so entrapped in his own cowardly rhetoric he cna’t remember which lie to follow?

Please try to keep your lies and dissimulations straight. You are giving a bad name to genocidal murderers everywhere.

138

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
As for the holocaust denial, the Iranian translation is this:

“‘If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.’ […] ‘If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.’ […] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets […] The president further said, ‘If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.’”

That, and other passages from the speech that I cannot find on short notice, but. have actually read a year ago, may express some doubt whether the whole holocaust business went down the way it is usually reported, but that was not his point.

His point was that IF IT DID the way the Europeans report it, why the myth of the holocaust should be used to create a state in the ME even though they had nothing to do with it.

Myth, not as is in “hey, it did not happen”, but in “hey you are building a folklore around it justifying all sorts of things with it”. He is not alone in this, I can point to perfectly respectable Jewish authors who complained about the very same thing, though not in the same context.

So, my stance now is this:

Has he denied the holocaust? Not outright, but he expressed doubts.

However, his main point was that if the Europeans say that this is what happened, why Palestine and not Bavaria?[/quote]

You are again wrong, or purposefully lying to yourself to sell some politicized crap:

August 26, 2011

“The Zionist regime’s establishment was based on numerous deceptions and lies and one of the biggest lies was the Holocaust.”

(Address at Tehran University on Quds Day)

This, by Ahmadinnajacket, is a lie in every regard. Whether he chooses to use it as a political statement, or thesis, or weapon, is irrelevant; using a lie for political purposes does not convert it to a truth, it does not make it acceptable, and it does not make for a legitimate historical and political argument. Not even in Austria.
[/quote]

Whole speech, text. [/quote]

I provide the citation–you go look it up. Then tell us all about its peaceful intention, how it was misgtranslated (by his own Iranian news organization), how the poor man is misunderstood, repeatedly, over 20 years.

That quote is a lie, it is contextualized as a lie. And you are an apologist for a liar.

[/quote]

I have posted the whole text of his 2005 speech, which clearly shows that he was taken out of context and deliberately misinterpreted, so the western media at least fucked up once already.

Also, you claim he said something, you prove it.

[/quote]

But Dear Demi-God Ahmadinapologist, this is precisely the same speech which you yourself , on the previous page, AGREED was an example–FINALLY–of Holocaust Denial.

Is the Demi-God confused by fact? Or is He so entrapped in his own cowardly rhetoric he cna’t remember which lie to follow?

Please try to keep your lies and dissimulations straight. You are giving a bad name to genocidal murderers everywhere.
[/quote]

I just want you to know that I ignore you manually.

Me dont need no fancy gadgets.

And no, its not because I tremble before your rhetorical prowess.

Though that thought could help you get through your functionally illiterate nights.

Not worth the effort.

139

Retard.

140

Would the world be off if the crazies running Iran were dead? Yes.

Kill them.

Destroy their nukes.

Kill as few civilians as possible.

End of story…jeez…