Would You Kill Someone?

Off Topic
141

[quote]Dweezil wrote:
yorik wrote:
mazevedo wrote:
Klippy would.

I’m sure klippy already has.

One time Klip climbed Mt. Hood naked just to get to the other side and beat a bear to death with his barehands. Then he cut the bear open, fashioned it into a coat, climbed back over Mt. Hood.

On his way up the mountain, he got into a fight with a Marine Force Recon soldier who as 265 pounds of pure muscle doing mountaineering exercises and they fought on a ledge at the top of the mountain with nothing but cavernous depths below. Klip grabbed him by the skull and crushed it, and threw his body to the wind.

When he got back down to the other side, he bathed in the blood of a virgin and drank two 24oz bottles filled with grain alcohol. Then he grabbed his Remington 700P LTR and disappeared into the woods.

They say you can hear the screams of mountain lions at night as they’re being chased by him.[/quote]

Ha ha…I’ve heard that one before…you forgot the part where he two of the Marine’s friends seek revenge and Klippy bludgeons them to death with his massive member… After which walked away to the sound of “Eye of the Tiger” playing, his piece still hanging out, to find an eleven year old “Slut Dance” prostitute.

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[quote]Blacksnake wrote:

For the limitations of film, these get it close, I’m sure there are many I’ve missed…[/quote]

I think the one that does it for me is Full Metal Jacket.

All throughout boot camp, the Marines are indoctrinated in the culture of death:

“If you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon. You will be a minister of death praying for war.”

“God has a hard-on for Marines because we kill everything we see!”

“What makes the grass grow? BLOOD! BLOOD! BLOOD!”

“It is a hard heart that kills. If your killer instincts are not clean and strong you will hesitate at the moment of truth. You will not kill.”

“So you’re a killer? Then let me see your war face! You got a war face? ARRRRRRRRGHHHH!!! That’s a war face!”

When Joker goes to Vietnam, he does his share of killing, as do all of his brothers-in-arms. But all of the killing is done from a distance: the VC killed by rifle and M60 fire as they come through the wire, the civilian peasants killed by the M60 gunner in the helicopter, the NVA running between buildings cut down by a burst from Crazy Earl’s rifle.

Only two people are killed at close range: Hartman, shot in the chest by Private Pyle, and the VC girl sniper shot in the head by Joker at the end of the film.

Notice how reluctant all of the Marines are to kill her, up close and personal, even though she has just killed three of their comrades, slowly and painfully. Joker, who joined the Marines to become a killer (“I wanted to see exotic Vietnam… the crown jewel of Southeast Asia. I wanted to meet interesting and stimulating people of an ancient culture… and kill them. I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill!”), achieves his goal, but it’s not quite as he’d imagined it.

The anguish over having to look this girl in the eyes, hear her praying for death, smell her intestines all over the floor, and then having to put a bullet in her brain, is written all over Joker’s face. This, then, is the “war face” Hartman was talking about. Notice, too, that of all of the hundreds of kills in that movie, only one, that one, gets any kudos from the other Marines.

The closer you are, the harder it is.

144

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
No, I’m not contemplating murder (at least not this week). But I’m curious. Under what circumstances would you, personally, with a gun, a knife, a club, or with your bare hands, end the life of another human being?

Would you do it for money? For love? For revenge? For a political ideal? For religion? In self-defence? For fun? Or never?

“Everyone I’ve killed was someone’s father… someone’s son…someone’s brother.”

–The Mariachi [/quote]

Heh. it just so happens I have a son out of wedlock. Probably the biggest mistake I ever made in my life, but don’t get me wrong…I love my son and will give anything for him, including my life real fast.

Anything, even if it meant harm to his mother. Her parents have too much money for me to fight her legally, but what she does and what she will do to my son is wrong. Smoking crack in my sons room, having sex with strange men in my sons room, sharing a room with my son, are some of the atrocities committed by her. How about her sleeping until 4:00PM in the afternoon and me pulling up at her house to find my son has wandered out of the house unsupervised at the age of 2 and made his way down the street? And she is asleep in her room recovering from the drinking and pill popping the night before? These are just some of what I witnessed. Just a little of it.

I won custody for a reason the first time, in Virginia which is one of the hardest states for a man to win custody in. I ran out of money after that, and her parents invested $20,000 in psychologists for her appeal, not to mention the team of lawyers they hired. I know because one of the psychologist accidentally sent the bill to my lawyer. We settled out of court for split custody after the first appeal, and I could not even have paid my lawyer to go to trial, or I would have and risked the testimony of the paid psychologists (hired guns). Yea, split custody, she gets him 205 days, I get him 160 days…she gets child support, and has attempted to increase the child support 3 times in the past year. All about money with her. I can get into more atrocities about finances…but I spare you my pain.

Now I am not going to admit on forums that I would kill her or anyone, but rest assured my friend, there is a limit every man has and what is right, and what is legally paid for are two entirely diffferent things. I have stood by and witnessed 6 strange men take a role in my sons life over the last 6 years, and those are the men I know of…my son is 6.

I hear about deranged fathers killing the mother of their children all the time. I do not wonder why.

145

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Another question remains then - should an honest lawyer kill a dishonest lawyer who is defending a dishonest lawyer who killed a honest lawyer?

And that begs the question, is it possible for there to be two honest lawyers alive on the planet at the same time?

(Sorry, Varq, for the the thread derailment)[/quote]

I personally think the lawyer that supported my custody battle is one of the most honest and admirable people I have ever met.

He gives “lawyers” a bad name, if you catch my sarcasm.

146

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Another question remains then - should an honest lawyer kill a dishonest lawyer who is defending a dishonest lawyer who killed a honest lawyer?[/quote]

Reminds me of the one about the defense attorney who is consulting with his client, a suspected bank robber, in the man’s jail cell.

“We’ve got two problems, Mr. Jones,” the lawyer says. “One, I can’t ethically defend a man whom I know to be guilty. And two, if you don’t tell me where you buried the loot, I don’t think you can afford my fee!”

It is theoretically possible, although never proven. However, should they ever come into physical contact in the same courtroom, the universe will explode.

147

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
No, I’m not contemplating murder (at least not this week). But I’m curious. Under what circumstances would you, personally, with a gun, a knife, a club, or with your bare hands, end the life of another human being?
[/quote]

the only “issue” is the law.
If i can do it without breaking the law i don’t see the problem.

yes to all :slight_smile:
in the following order (top-down order)

  1. self-denfence
  2. political
  3. religion (don’t really apply i have no religion…)
    4)revenge
    5)fun
148

[quote]cadav wrote:
Varqanir wrote:

Would you do it for money? For love? For revenge? For a political ideal? For religion? In self-defence? For fun?

yes to all :slight_smile:
in the following order (top-down order)

  1. self-denfence
  2. political
  3. religion (don’t really apply i have no religion…)
    4)revenge
    5)fun
    [/quote]

Not for love?! What kind of Italian are you?!?

:wink:

149

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Rocket Scientist wrote:

I’m not sure who you’re talking to here. Surely not me. I don’t believe I ever implied that I WANT to kill, nor that I am exploring the military for that reason. I got that shit out of my system twenty years ago, in the Army.

My mistake there, got you confused with comment by HCH, but couldn’t backtrack at that point to confirm the source without losing what I had already written.

Simply that there is a difference between offense and defense, and that you can’t be “defending your country” while you are fighting in someone else’s. Semantic point, not a moral one. Surely it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that. ;)[/quote]

As far as this goes, we’ll have to agree to disagree, since I find this and the long vs. short range discussions to be overly semantic in what I consider a moral discussion. I’ll break it down into combat vs. non-combat situations.

In the classic scenario of bad guy with a knife to my wife’s throat, and a clean shot - I would take it, caveat being that I’m not a gun guy - don’t own any, don’t want any. I keep a Massai war club by the bed for home defense situations, but would NOT kill someone to protect my big screen TV.
Cheers,

Rocket

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[quote]Rocket Scientist wrote:

In the classic scenario of bad guy with a knife to my wife’s throat, and a clean shot - I would take it, caveat being that I’m not a gun guy - don’t own any, don’t want any. [/quote]

Well, there’s always laser-guided missiles.

I used to have a shillelagh that looked a bit like the photo you posted. About a meter long, and carved out of a stout piece of ash, with a big knob on the end that just fit in my hand. I carried it like a walking stick, and was given a nice wide berth as I walked softly through the rough parts of LA, Tokyo, Medan and Bangkok. Lost it on a volcano in Western Sumatra, though. Pity.

151

Regarding Full Metal Jacket, I agree that Joker had a hard time killing the VC gal, but I interpreted the main guy Animal, I believe, as preferring the girl to suffer in brutal pain. Much more cruel then mercifully putting a bullet in her brain as Joker did.

D

152

im a wrestler so id have a hayday droppin some punk to the ground if i had to…then beat the living shit out of him…

153

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Rocket Scientist wrote:

In the classic scenario of bad guy with a knife to my wife’s throat, and a clean shot - I would take it, caveat being that I’m not a gun guy - don’t own any, don’t want any.

Well, there’s always laser-guided missiles.

I keep a Massai war club by the bed for home defense situations

I used to have a shillelagh that looked a bit like the photo you posted. About a meter long, and carved out of a stout piece of ash, with a big knob on the end that just fit in my hand. I carried it like a walking stick, and was given a nice wide berth as I walked softly through the rough parts of LA, Tokyo, Medan and Bangkok. Lost it on a volcano in Western Sumatra, though. Pity.[/quote]

Technically they are bombs, not missiles, but either way not particularly useful in the home (rocket exhaust is a bitch in confined spaces). That part IS rocket science!

My club only about 18 inches long, but has nice balance and fits well in the hand…and it’s a lot easier to get on an airplane than the spears they also carry. Got it in a small village near Ngorongoro Crater in Tanzania.

R

154

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
im a wrestler so id have a hayday droppin some punk to the ground if i had to…then beat the living shit out of him…[/quote]

Better hope that person doesn’t choke you out with jiu-jitsu. Wrestlers beware.

155

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Regarding Full Metal Jacket, I agree that Joker had a hard time killing the VC gal, but I interpreted the main guy Animal, I believe, as preferring the girl to suffer in brutal pain. Much more cruel then mercifully putting a bullet in her brain as Joker did.

D [/quote]

156

Just for you, Blacksnake.

157

[quote]Dedicated wrote:
Regarding Full Metal Jacket, I agree that Joker had a hard time killing the VC gal, but I interpreted the main guy Animal, I believe, as preferring the girl to suffer in brutal pain. Much more cruel then mercifully putting a bullet in her brain as Joker did.

D [/quote]

It’s true. But he’s the only one, and clearly the other Marines understand which option required more courage.

[i]I look at the sniper. She whimpers. I try to decide what I would want if I were down, half dead, hurting bad, surrounded by my enemies. I look into her eyes, trying to find the answer. She sees me. She recognizes me–I am the one who will end her life. We share a bloody intimacy. As I lift my grease gun she is praying in French. I jerk the trigger. Bang. One round enters the sniper’s left eye and as the bullet exits it tears off the back of her head.

The squad is silent.

Then Alice grunts, flashes a big grin. “Man, you are one hard dude. How come you ain’t a grunt?”

Cowboy and Doc Jay are standing beside me.

Cowboy says, "Mother, I’m serviceable. Joker, that’s a well done. You’re hard.’

Animal Mother spits. He takes a step, kneels, zips out his machete. With one powerful blow he chops off her head. He picks the head up by its long black hair and holds it high. He laughs and says, “Rest in pieces, bitch.” And he laughs again. He walks around and sticks the bloody ball of gore into all our faces. “Hard? Now who’s hard? Now who’s hard, motherfuckers?”

Cowboy looks at Animal Mother and sighs. “Joker is hard, Mother. You…you’re just mean.”

Animal Mother pauses, spits, throws the head into a ditch.[/i]

From The Short-Timers by Gustav Hasford.

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To answer the original question: In the line of duty, and if I had the legal “right” through the rules of engagement, then yes, I would and could kill someone.