I think I’d look pretty sick if I was on 5 grams of gear + hgh… that being said Olympia level… not at all, perhaps I’d be able to attain a similar level of mass, but not the “look”, my insertions simply aren’t on point, esp for triceps… I have the WORST tricep genetics insertions
You think Markhus Ruhl has shitty triceps? You should look at mine…
I KNOW I couldn’t tolerate it. I run 1-2 light cycles a year. Last one was 300 test / 500 eq with tbol at 50mg/day for 4 weeks. Even on that cycle I had tolerable but noticeable sides. When I run solo test or test and an oral same thing. Never tried the harsher compounds but I wouldNot want to. I am interested in primo as you’ve suggested in other threads. But the price… oof.
This is a mild cycle? No judgement, I thought what I did was “light”, like 150mg test + 20mg dbol… Or 100mg test 200mg mast… Although you could perhaps call these “cruises” or “experimentation” rather than full on cycles.
Stopped taking the DBOL however, heartburn irritated me, have the option of OTC medication… However if something’s harsh to the point where it gives me chronic indigestion, I’d rather not use it.
I think it’s a light to avg cycle. I get lots of mental sides on cycles that I have a hard time with. Most people run EQ much higher but I wasn’t risking the anxiety. I think 400-500 is the min EQ dose for effectiveness.
Oh and no judgement/offense taken. I know you have a good heart and hardly ever harsh/mean to anyone on this forum. Valued member.
Perhaps, anecdotally boldenone appears to be less effective mg/mg compared to anabolics such as testosterone, nandrolone etc. (some report very nice gains off TRT + 200mg nandrolone weekly)… That being said nandrolone is also (probably, at least literature would suggest) far more dangerous in the long run compared to EQ.
Potential nephrotoxicity of boldenone (moreso than other AAS) is concerning however.
I’d stipulate perhaps 300mg would be effective for novices, the thing is, any dose above natural production equivalent is effective, hence the argument “people use far more than they should, lower doses are effective”. My rebuttal to argument resides within “effective doesn’t equate to optimal”… Sure, bodybuilding is a marathon, not a sprint, however we are inherently rather impatient. Is it really worth shutting down natural testosterone production to make accelerated gains in muscular mass if said gains come at 1.5-2x normal? Probably not… Lower dosages (say 250mg/wk testosterone… the highest dose fo testosterone I’ve ever used)… are effective, however the results one widdles out of said dosage pales in comparison to 500mg/wk, thus perhaps leaving the user unsatisfied. While this may be different for those who respond exceptionally, this is generally the case.
If I’m running a “cycle”, I want to gain absurd amounts of lean tissue, not look for a marginal boost in performance and aesthetics. Granted, there are inherent and significant risks associated with higher dosages (majority residing within long term pathology), however I think if someone is legitimately using higher dosage (to me this means… above say 4-500mg/wk), then they’re WELL aware (or should be) of the potential for long term ailment, and for whatever reason (not my place to judge) have made up their mind, stipulating the risk is worth it (and I actually agree with this notion, for some… The increase within quality of life may very well override the negatives)
Take me and nandrolone for instance, would I rather
A: Live in constant pain, constantly aggravating things with simplistic tasks such as doing dishes, reaching overhead etc… Feel pain whenever I run due to potential degenerative arthritis in my ankle, suffer from generalised pain. OR
B: use 100mg nandrolone long term, shave ten-fifteen years off my life and live without pain?
The answer to such a question is obvious, and even in the case of low self-esteem and/or image issues, society is vein, there is certainly an aspect in which I can see an individual with serious issues (not saying it’s the RIGHT avenue, however I can understand where said person would be coming from rather than writing them off as mentally ill) using AAS in order to boost confidence (be it to improve sex appeal, ward off bullying etc.)
And to be honest, many of us may use anabolic’s as a coping mechanism for underlying insecurities, I’m certainly insecure about my short stature. For graduation photos, I had to be in the front row as I was the shortest male in my grade… How do you think that made me feel? People say it doesn’t matter… it does matter, perhaps not that much (although it’s up to the individual to decide how much the ridicule, mocking and short jokes gets to them) however there is certainly a detriment to being short that no amount of intelligence will change in regards to how others will perceive you upon first glance.
I was prescribed 200mg deca per week from my TRT doc a little over a year ago. I made far more progress on that than this last EQ cycle. I didn’t get much out of test/eq. The prob was I developed ED on even the low dose. I think I’m going to chance NPP next year but I’m running it with mast this time.
PRESCRIBED? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmtellmeyouredoctoormmmmmmmmm
Just kidding, if I was to use nandrolone (haven’t made up my mind, depends on the state of my shoulder), I’d probably start with NPP, try 200mg (for rapid relief, then wean down to 100mg/lowest effective dose) and switch to nandrolone decanoate upon feeling comfortable, as in if I experienced no SAE’s. There’s certainly risks to nandrolone that make me stipulate it isn’t worth it for the majority, however if you’ve used tren/are willing to use tren… then these risks don’t matter lol, I’d prefer deca any day comparative to tren in terms of long term risk.
This isn’t a decent representation of safety, however we do have a group of individuals with HIV associated wasting (with progressive doctors) using nandrolone long term (say decades) to deter wasting/ improve quality of life, perhaps speaking to said cohort and finding out long term health implications as experienced by these people (maintained on test + 1-200mg deca) would be beneficial in relation to legitimately establishing a risk assessment profile.
Google Nelson Vergel and read up on him. He’s a TRT guru and I believe ran deca long term for HIV treatment.
Yes, I’ve read his book “built to survive”
He stopped using deca in relation to the concerning data that came to fruition in the mid-mate 2000’s or 2010s I believe regarding LVH. However he said personally, with cardiovascular screening no pathology was detected. HOWEVER, he did say nandrolone fucked up his lipid panel, and nothing he used was able to correct said imbalanced (HDL generally dropped to mid-high 20’s). This is individualistic in nature however, he may merely be sensitive to AAS induced dyslipidemia, as I can quote literature in which a cohort given 600mg deca for 10 (or was it 16?) weeks noticed marginal decreases within HDL, a drop in LDL and triglycerides (interestingly electing a relatively positive effect on the lipid profile). Still, antioxidant profile imbalance, release/predisposing release of excess pro-inflammatory cytokines, endothelial dysfunction, collagen deposition within the myocardium etc make nandrolone a potentially risky choice. Granted, our studies are limited to rodent/ rabbit and in vitro (exposed to massive concentrations) models of which have highly differing antioxidant profiles (rodent models I’m referring to here).
The sheer amount of bodybuilders dying this year is somewhat concerning. While one may say “the media is merely highlighting deaths associated with bodybuilding” which may be true, the amount of undisclosed, cause unknown (come non, we know it’s cardiovascular pathology) is concerning… Perhaps running 4 grams of gear + HGH and insulin while retaining a bodyweight of 300lbs is unhealthy… The majority of the deaths have been individuals in their 50’s, 60’s or 70’s, however three deaths occurred at very young ages, 22, 25 and 36 respectively I believe. I’d hypothesise there is a genetic component, and the fact that two (if I recall correctly) died on the day of or day after competitions leads me to believe dieuretic abuse and/or electrolyte imbalance may have induced cardiac arrest.
WAIT, there was another one, some bodybuilding female (pro) died at 46, sudden cardiac death, also right after competition if I recall correctly.
Like smoking cigarettes, I firmly believe using anabolic steroids is playing Russian roulette with you’re health, albeit with perhaps one bullet in the chamber of a magazine holding 100+ rounds worth capacity comparative to cigarettes, in which long term smokers have 1/2 odds of their addiction inducing death (caused by smoking). That being said, just because you aren’t dead doesn’t mean you won’t experience adverse effects, neuropsychiatric, endocrine side effects induced by AAS are far more likely. That and acne scarring, baldness, potential gyno (would require surgery) etc all attribute to health burden. Death isn’t the only variable to worry about
And perhaps anabolic steroids are even more dangerous than I give them credit to be, we don’t know… Perhaps I’m biased because I use them and am merely scared of the concept relating to my own mortality. Similarly to how I’d never use cocaine as I fear it’d induce sudden cardiac death… seriously, cocaine (the idea of using it/the substance itself) scares the living shit out of me, I’ve been around it enough too see what it does to others when they take too much, the way it can change the demeanour of some etc…
I’m the same, and in particular its Testosterone that gives me most of the sides. I can handle Tren just fine, no mental sides. But the second I bump up test to like 200mg/wk, im a wreck.
My most recent cycle was the best in terms of mental clarity and stability. It was Tren/NPP/Mast and 10mg Dbol/d. I think you will enjoy NPP and Mast, just keep the testosterone as low as possible to maintain function, mine is around 100mg/wk.
SB
What’s the 10mg dbol/day for? If you’re already on tren/npp/mast, is it for enhanced glycogenolysis? If so, wouldn’t tren itself be good enough through enhanced nutrient partitioning effects?
I agree, but that’s not what the ace card concept is about. I see it as a reworded way of telling athletes to hit their natural potential before using. Look at what he said:
"If you have to play that ace card to make your high school football team, you’re probably not gonna play in college. If you gotta flip that ace card to go to college and play, you’re probably not gonna play pro.
If you gotta flip it while you’re training for the Combine, then you’re probably gonna go pro. Doesn’t mean you’re gonna stay a pro for very long. If you’re gonna be a pro for five years in the NFL and then you flip it to pull another five years, now you’re making another 10, 15 million dollars.
It’s all a matter of when do you feel you have to flip that card, ‘cause you can only flip it once." [emphases mine]
He’s not talking about lazy guys who want to use it as a shortcut. Those are dorks who won’t last long anyway. It’s about, when does an athlete have to use gear to become a better athlete.
If OP’s brother need the advantages from anabolics to become the best BJJ grappler in the Podunk Community College intramural league, he lacks the physical abilities to get to the top of the sport.
It’s like using a nitro boost too soon in a car race. If you use it right off the line, your competitor can still catch up and then use theirs later in the race to blow you away.
Is there a cycle you can run right now that would deliver the same degree of exploded progress as stepping from natty to first cycle? I think that’s the core of what Tate was talking about.
Well if you’re using anabolics to excel in recreational sport (depending on individual genetic potential) you won’t make it pro unless you’re a genetic anomaly, however this would theoretically be the case regardless of use or not. If someone with sub-par and/or average genetics trains for professionalism in relation to sports their whole life naturally, and then uses anabolic steroids, they STILL won’t make it pro. Similarly too bodybuilding, in terms of ELITE status, genetics play a good 80% of what the make-up of a pro is… If you don’t have the genes, no matter what ace card you flip, you aren’t getting up there. I could theoretically take all the gear/PEDS in the world (even if I could handle the side effects), I still wouldn’t beat Phil Heath in a bodybuilding competition because my genetics suck compared to his.
Wellllll, for me there is. Considering I’ve never ran a proper cycle (like what we see guys running on here, so say 500mg test 400mg EQ + anavar kickstart), while I’d never run such dosages (no judgement to those who do), if I DID run such dosages, I’d probably blow up, far more than the results I’d achieve from say 250mg test/wk. It depends, however if we are talking about proper cyclic use of heavy dosages, the results from a 1st cycle can’t be replicated without ever increasing dosages (of which will pose more and more risk in terms of longevity, thus chasing exponential results is generally a dangerous philosophy), the same can be said about training naturally (or enhanced) and chasing weights. If you chase the weights too vigorously (totals), form will buckle and injury will occur. Patience and moderation is key… though to be fair, such qualities (moderation specifically) rarely make up the base of a great athlete, these people (actually many highly successful people) tend to thrive on excess… I guess they seem to merely have luck of the draw and it works out for them?
For the euphoria and testosterone replacement.
SB
Ahhh I didn’t notice there was no test there.
Dbol didn’t make me feel euphoric, on the contrary it just gave me indigestion and rapid, glycogen filled gains… Indigestion induced me to stop using it like 12 days in as I didn’t feel comfortable using something that clearly induced quite a bit of strain on my body, enough to induce chronic indigestion and gastrointestinal discomfort (very gassy all the time + stomach cramps)
Over the next few days I expect to lose 4-4.5 of the 5kg I gained on the stuff
I can agree with the gastrointestinal discomfort, i was real gassy on it. Im off it now and to be honest probably wont be using it again. The aromatisation on it is ridiculous, apparently caused by the more potent “methyl-oestrogen” its reduced to. @unreal24278
SB
Also fucked up my sleep cycle. I can’t sleep for a solid 6 hours after I dose… So taking it at night-time was a nogadnfgjksdfklgaksdjgnkalds
I love dbol… one of the compounds that actually improves my mood. Problem is the gains fade so damn quick after discontinuation and it also gives me moon face.
What Tate said is largely true. If you need AAS to get to the next level, no amount of AAS or duration of time is going to get you past it. Outside of Bodybuilding, there is no real advantage in continued muscle hypertrophy and growth, it is the little boost to accompany natural ability and aid it. In many sports continued AAS use would actually be detrimental in the long run. Throwers can be too strong and hurt their throwing for example.
As far as Yates describing his use as less than 2 grams a week and people not believing him, there is no reason not to believe that. In Strongman I know that the “Standard” was a 1 gram test cruise plus “Cycles” during contest prep. I think you’d find that guys like Yates never came off. There’s a big difference between cycling or blast and cruise at under 200 mg a week, and running 700-1000mg non-stop for years. How much HGH was he using? Who knows. Genetics and finding exactly the right training for YOU, make a big difference.
I’l;l give an example. Whit Baskin. He started using in high school, set PL records and hit Strongman like a storm. He went to Worlds and did decent, even though he was invited last second and went from 225 lbs the week before to 275 lbs at contest. He got in a car accident and almost died. He came out of the hospital determined to do his comeback naturally. He went from winning everything he entered on AAS to last place in everything that he entered as a natty. How much did the prolonged use help him later? It didn’t. He couldn’t make that jump without some extreme and prolonged usage that went away as soon as he stopped.
Masteron at a low dose increased my mood exponentially. Dbol made me feel… honestly, kinda shitty, aside from the permaboner, and that wasn’t great. Especially when in a teenage cohort surrounded by women, popping boners all the time isn’t great