WooWoo Stuff - All Things Woowoo

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701

My search for answers recently took me to Dhamma Kunja Vipassana Center in Onalaska, Washington for a ten day silent “retreat.”

First of all, they’re a bunch of lying bastards. It was twelve days, not ten, and hardly a retreat.

In summary, it was twelve days of misery. No phones, computers, no reading material, no writing material, two meals a day, and ten hours of meditation per day.

I was close to leaving on days three, seven, and ten but the sneaky bastards actually gave me some tools to deal with my discomfort and I actually managed to stay for the entirety. They recommend sitting for a retreat once a year but after nine days I was thinking, no way, I am never coming back to do this again.

I got out this morning and am already planning my next trip.

702

What sort of stuff did you do with the rest of your time?

Did you find any answers while you were there?

703

It’s a little weird to be excited to have some down time, to retire to your cell, and have nothing to do but meditate.

Yes - I got the secret.

704

It sounds kinda like going to jail. You can learn some secrets there, too.

I’m glad you got your downtime. Let us know if words exist to transmit the knowledge you just gained.

705

In my experience, very similar.

It is difficult to put into words. Vipassana has been around since before Gotama Buddha and the guy that repopularized it in the 20th century, S. N. Goenka, has tne discourses of one hour each on Spotify if you are so inclined.

I will attempt to summarize as succinctly as possible but will indubitably miss some important points.

Basically, it is a meditation technique that trains you to be equanimous (mentally stable) rather than reacting habitually.

Before you can learn the technique and implement it, you need to be living a moral life (there are eight precepts - no killing, etc…) Then you can train your mind experientially to be equanimous and recognize the impermanence of everything.

There is more to it, but that’s the main idea. The secret is that there is no secret. I summarize by saying:

1 - play stupid games, win stupid prizes (karma).
2 - train your mind.
3 - purify your mind.

The Pali words are Sila, Samadhi, and Panna.

The hours of no mental stimulation left my brain in pursuit of things to do, so it went up in the attic and pulled out a bunch of unprocessed shit for me to work on. Then down in the basement for more unprocessed shit. Then started in on all of my closets.

I would say that it shifted my paradigm. I would not say that it was transformational, but that it can lead to significant transformation if the practice is continued - like most self help programs.

The biggest difference, as I see it, is that through the seminar you are practicing the technique and learning it experientially rather than just intellectually. Reading or hearing something and understanding it is not the same as doing it and experiencing it.

A side benefit is that the lack of mental stimulation is a dopamine fast and results in some amazing experiences - oatmeal never tasted so good.

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706

Have you ever tried solo backpacking? You can do the same sort of stuff, but instead of spending thousands on travel and accommodations you can spend thousands on backpacking gear.

For something more accessible, I foolishly enjoy taking night walks in my town, especially this time of year. Walking and listening to the sounds around me, often as a low-level operative in my dog’s grand strategy of scent marking in a never ending struggle for neighborhood dominance, is probably the closest I venture into those meditative waters these days.

I’m just a guy who did some psychedelics in the 90’s and read a lot of books afterwards, but I’ll offer a bit of my perspective.

“Tripping out” is a blanket term used to describe what happens when the following conditions are present:

  1. You are on psychedelic drugs.

  2. You start thinking about something, which leads to thinking about something else, and so on until you get to some pretty wild thoughts. These can be new thoughts that lead you to better actions, or not.

  3. You might be hallucinating to varying degrees as this occurs.

Eventually, some external stimulus causes you to snap out of it, like your buddy Trenton saying “Hey fucker, you haven’t moved in three hours” or you need to take a piss really bad.

It is my opinion that the people who say you can reach the same sort of states with meditation are doing the same basic thing, often with lots of fancy words to describe self-reflection. You can trip out on anything if you put your mind to it.

It is my belief that turning all of that off is probably more important than figuring out how to do it. Endless navel-gazing is how one can arrive at some rather wild and impractical ideas that do not contribute positively to the wellbeing of yourself or those around you.

I think there is some truth in the feelings I’ve had of personal connectedness and the sense that a fabric exists that connects everything in the universe. I first experienced those in a visceral sense on some LSD in the mid 90’s. It is good to be aware of that and I think a lot of people across time and space have come up with all kinds of words to describe it, some getting quite wealthy in the process.

Caddyshack still offers a good cosmic perspective in 2024.

Be the ball.

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707

We are of similar minds in many ways. I did a four day/eighty mile section hike on the Appalachian trail a few years ago and can appreciate the similarities.

I am well versed in the idea of altered states of consciousness giving the protagonist objective space to conclude they have been fucking up their life. Stanislav Grof developed holotropic breath work as an LSD substitute when LSD was outlawed. I did a ten month training in breathwork. Conscious connected breathing for twenty minutes shuts down the pre-frontal cortex and allows for objectivity without crushing inner critic activity.

I believe I have mentioned my heroic dose of mushrooms a few years ago with the intention of healing my mental health issues. They were helpful.

When Ram Dass was in India a yogi requested nine hits of LSD and Dass obliged. The yogi seemed unaffected. The next day he told Dass “medicine good. Meditation better.”

The beauty of the Vipassana sentence, er retreat, is that it is free. I am still processing all of the information and the experience but have concluded that it is not just the meditation technique that make the retreats effective and memorable.

Post heroic dose, I was more settled and more clear on my path moving forward, and was equanimous most of the time. When I wasn’t equanimous, shit got ugly fast.

Post Vipassana I feel more settled but realize there is no secret life hack to happiness. It takes hard work. Luckily, the benefits are worth it.

The Vipassana experience gave me more insight into my own mental pathology, a better understanding of why I was/am so angry, reactive, prone to addiction, being a victim and playing the blame game. Knowing how and why I got to where I am, and being given a path out, has the potential to be transformative. That is a burden lifted.

The new burden is recognizing how long the path is and how much work is involved. Fortunately, I clearly see the benefits of pursuing happiness rather than enjoying misery.

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708

The path may be long, but if your head is in the right place, which it sounds like it may be, I’m not sure the work is going to be hard, or even “work.” I think if you’re really ready to give up blame/defense/attack, it might feel more like a pleasant walk to a place you want to go. Hopefully, at any rate!

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709

Trudge the road of happy destiny.

710

I guess it isn’t very woowoo, but the opposite of reflection often works well for me if I’m stuck on something.

Is this something I actually care about? Like not just in a moment, but in the big picture does it matter? No? Fuck it.

If yes is it something current or historical? If current get on top of it, if historical fuck it.

I guess prioritize and act, with the goal of living forward?

It’s very zen.

711

I agree with all of that, @Njord.

Breathe in strength, breathe out bullshit:

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712

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:upside_down_face:

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713

It actually was, lol. I tried a gram, and then two grams with no effect. So I tried three grams (low end of “heroic”) and that was enough for me.

I go to a mens support group through a Psychedelic society - a guy there is “experimenting” with high dose treatment, not sure what for. Said he has taken up to 13 grams.

Hard pass for me.

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714

I found that with shrooms, more was better. But I wasn’t trying to accomplish anything spiritual, just trying to get very high on hallucinogens.

Escape velocity! :rocket:

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