I could not disagree more. I see CBT work every single day. Freud and Jung are psychodynamic/psychoanalytic, not cognitive behavioral. Cognitive behavioral therapy as I understand it is about understanding the impact of thoughts, feelings, and behavior on one another, and then experimenting with alterations in one or all arenas. I consider Internal Family Systems to reside under the umbrella of CBT. What is going on when you feel the strong need to rescue another adult? Is this a thought or a feeling? What if you chose not to enact it?
I consider most of the woo stuff to be what youāre calling covering. It does nothing to alter the distorted response set. Itās another drug, as in: āI was all, like, WOW, and then I realized that, like, Iām okay! Iām good! Iām enough!ā
I donāt see that working long term the way altering the actual behavior chain does. Behavior chain analysis looks something like: vulnerability > event > feeling > thought > behavior. (Here again, feelings, thoughts, and behaviors come in different orders for different people, e.g. a substance abuser may behave, then feel, then think.
Em, I am admittedly out of my depth. all I can speak to is my truth, and I will try to do that.
Well, Iām an English teacher and not a LCSW. a psychologist, or a psychiatrist (and I know the latter is an MD, not that the ethos matters). My limited understanding of Freud and Jung is that they base mental illness on nurture, much of their work was based on I.P. Pavlov.
That being said, if I am correct, and I am not sure that I am, if mommy doesnāt make eye contact with you, you become a psychopath. Granted, that is an extreme.
So, CBT gets you to look at the consequences of your psychopathic behavior - well, youāll shoot up a school and end up in jail.
So to cover, letās medicate the psychopath - put them on Zoloft so they donāt do a mass shooting.
Is it better to medicate (cover) than to uncover the underlying issues - mommy loved my sister more, so Iām going to get her attention.
Would it not be better to resolve the root issue rather than to cover the mental health issues with SSRIās and SNRIās and Benzos?
I know this is a very simplistic presentation, and feel free to point out the flaws in my model.
To my limited understanding, the difference here is covered in @EmilyQ excellent post above. In some cases, these issues can be solved by uncovering. In some cases they canāt.
Rereading the post, I definitely wasnāt clear enough. Maybe it should have read āthe reason why dealing with root causes will not always be effectiveā, and Iām referring to the post above in which diabetes was used as an analogy.
Yes. Not sure Pavlov in terms of theoretical approach, but letās just say yes.
Yes, thatās Freudās approach. Your motherās wandering uterus (i.e. hysteria) combined with your subconscious desire to kill your father, etc.
No. This has nothing to do with CBT.
Also nothing to do with CBT.
CBT (as I practice it) seeks to understand the underlying issues, but is not concerned otherwise with history. So, for example, my 9:00 this morning has an exceptionally codependent relationship history. Weāve looked at the formation of that - narcissistic father who drops in and out of life and a critical, neglectful mother - to examine motive. WHY are you attaching to men so far beneath you in competence and character? Okay, because codependent people feel safe and loved when they feel needed, and your childhood leaves you feeling that you need to tie people to you. Okay, so what now? How do we alter either A) the shitty relationship youāre in, and/or B) break the pattern going forward, and/or C) deal with your parents going forward? And what happens if you choose option B and now have to deal with a relationship that is NOT codependent, and thus feels like a free fall to you? What protections can we put in place?
In your shoot up the school example we look at ways to forgive the mother for her failure to make eye contact and love the sister more (forgiveness defined as āremember without bitternessā) and seek to build instead the clientās sense of self apart from the family. We acknowledge the lack of nurturance and then consider how best to nurture oneself. Usually here Iād quote Hillel:
āIf I am not for myself who is for me,
And being for my own self, what am I?
If not now, when?ā
Psychopathy is of course out of the ordinary, so is not particularly amenable to CBT, or any therapy or drug, but the goal of CBT is to eliminate the distorted thinking around feelings, e.g. āI feel rejected by my mother so shooting others is necessary / will make me feel better / is a wise choice.ā
I think diabetes is a tough analogy. Particularly type 1.
However, @EmilyQ has proven over time that she is both smart, tough, and compassionate, so i hesitate to call bullshit on her.
The Homeric simile breaks down for me with respect to lifestyle. My father is type II diabetic. He drank, smoked, ate like a fucking pig, and is 260 pounds as a 5"8" eighty year old man. He made choices.
I donāt think I made choices that caused my depression. I think my parents did. Iām totally cool with them, but I didnāt make the choices.
I might be Pollyanna here, and certainly hypocritical, but I feel pharma is a bridge to recovery, not recovery itself.
Going to go all Kundalini on you now, but re-cover means to create a new cover. I know itās ironic because I advocate uncovering, but, I think you get my point.
Many things are changeable without pharma, but pharma helps. However, I know for a fact half om my English department are on meds, long term. It begins to reek of Brave New World.
I agree, for some. But not for all, and Emilyās analogy above helps back my opinion a little on this. I agree we live in a massively over medicated society, but the other extreme of āno-one should ever need long term medicationā is equally problematic. The answer, as always, is somewhere in the middle to my uninformed mind.
I am currently reading When The Impossible Happens by Stanislav Grof, MD, PhD - think I may have mentioned this. Iām about done with it.
I also read How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. And, The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk, MD I think.
I am most heavily influenced by my most recent reading, obvs, and Grof was one of the first Psychiatrists to use LSD with patients when he was in Prague.
Okay, back up. Iāll just answer the question.
I see single high dose psychedelics as a panacea for addiction and depression. I believe this so much so that I am actively seeking LSD and mushrooms.
There is my answer. If you want me to justify it, I will.
Agreed. Iād only advise great care be taken. I was generally happy person when I did them and my mind did not go anywhere bad. I have no idea what would happen if youāre presently gravitating towards troubling thoughts.
Iām not trying to steer you away if you want to do it. Iām merely advising great caution. LSD in significant doses is a dramatically more powerful experience.
Hereās my deal - Grof invented Holotropic Breathwork when LSD got outlawed, Itās a four hour experience.
When he guided LSD journeys, it was a five hour experience. He, as a Psychiatrist, sat with patients and guided them through the journey - set and setting - in a nice office with cool lights and a couch at the Maryland Psychiatric Hospital.
If you do Ayahuasca, its a day of orientation, a day of journey, and a day of integration.
If you do Transformational Breathwork, which I am trained in, we create a container where everybody feels safe, we take the journey, then we talk about it - integration.
Iām not just going to trip and wander the streets. Iāll create a container, have a sitter, have an intention, roll, then have someone to talk to about it.
So, really valid points.
Google psychedelic guides - there are literally hundreds āto help you make sense of your journey.ā
I guess you go find your own acid and then call them when you come down, āWhat the fuck just happened?ā
Plan for at least 12 hours of intoxication with LSD. Commit a full day to the experience and recovery. Thatās all you will do on that day.
I would also advise speaking with whoever prescribed the medication you are currently on to understand any drug interaction risks that may be known. I donāt know of any, but it seems like a prudent line of inquiry for someone intent on altering their brain chemistry even further.
Otherwise buy the ticket and take the ride if you think youāre ready. Good luck!