Women's Lives Before Politics

Oleena · February 9, 2012, 3:27am

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

Gee, maybe I have the caveat because I don’t think it’s right to force a woman to have a baby that is the product of a rape? Or force a teenage girl to have a baby that is a product of incest? Or a baby that won’t survive due to a serious congenital birth defect?[/quote]

Let’s face it, Greeny, you aint about to draw the line there, are you?[/quote]

Yes, I am. This is MY personal viewpoint, my personal belief on abortions and the only real reasons for them to be performed. However, I know this is not the case in 95% of abortions. Using it for birth control or gender control (damn, I already have three girls, let’s abort this one and try again) is an abuse of the practice. Those people should just be sterilized and get it over with. And even though I know all this, I still the think the right to choose is paramount. If there was an ironclad way to prevent unwanted pregnancies and no matter how available or affordable we make birth control people will still not use it (Darlin’, I can’t come wearing a condom), I would probably lean towards being anti-abortion except in extreme circumstances I listed.

[/quote]

I understand.

This argument is so easily dismantled and has been done before many times right on PWI.

We should not kill people - “precious human life” in your own words - because someone thinks they are “unwanted”. That would be, in your own words again, “despicable.”

There are zillions of American families forced to adopt children from foreign countries because the process is so much easier overseas AND because American society has seen fit to SLAUGHTER millions of its own children. THAT, my friend is truly “despicable.”
[/quote]

There are currently 300+ children in the Seattle foster-care system and ~24 homes. What’s going on with this? Why are people adopting overseas when there are so many needy children right under their noses?

It’s not hard to find a child that needs a home in America and it’s also not hard to adopt out of the foster care system; it’s much less expensive than adopting overseas. The thing is, people would RATHER adopt overseas than take on a foster-care child who was born to the “scum” of their society, comes with a trial period, miles of paperwork, a weird genetic family, might be older than 2, and is probably going to be a handful.

But I assure you, no matter where you live in America, you can find a kid in America who needs a home. The fact of the matter is, many prefer a baby from another country where they are less aware of what the actual parents were like and they don’t have to deal with the system.

http://www.adoptuskids.org/_app/child/searchpResults.aspx

Oleena · February 9, 2012, 3:37am

Man I hope these kids get help:

http://www.adoptuskids.org/_app/child/searchpResults.aspx?pg=6

http://www.adoptuskids.org/_app/child/viewp.aspx?id=39983

Oleena · February 9, 2012, 3:57am

Sad.

Tiribulus · February 9, 2012, 4:42am

[quote]Grneyes wrote:<<< If there was an ironclad way to prevent unwanted pregnancies and no matter how available or affordable we make birth control people will still not use it >>>[/quote]Keep yer pants on until yer married and able to responsibly care for YOUR OWN offspring. That’s what was necessary and assumed for this country to be founded and ascend. I know. OUTRAGEOUS AND UNREALISTIC!!! We’ve “progressed” waaaaaaaay beyond that haven’t we? Look how far we’ve come.

sufiandy · February 9, 2012, 5:32am

So what is the plan to do with these 1.2 million children per year? Are there that many willing to adopt to fill the demand?

SexMachine · February 9, 2012, 6:18am

Yeah, but before they’re born they’re not even human. Okay maybe they’re human for the last 3 months…or the last 6. They look all weird and gross anyway. Should just adopt one that’s already born. Those African ones are cute. I want one of them to carry around like the Hollywood libs. If my miniature poodle doesn’t like him he’ll have to go…the baby that is. Pookie’s been with me for years. /sarcasm

lanchefan1 · February 9, 2012, 3:39pm

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
]Keep yer pants on until yer married and able to responsibly care for YOUR OWN offspring. [/quote]

Because this has always worked so well to keep people from fucking!

sufiandy · February 9, 2012, 4:24pm

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
So what is the plan to do with these 1.2 million children per year? Are there that many willing to adopt to fill the demand?[/quote]

If there’s no plan should we continue to kill 'em? You know…for their own good…so they don’t have to grow up “unwanted”?

Just put 'em down like an unwanted dog or cat at the Humane Society, right?

Planned Parenthood’s (and others’) motto:

[center]Better Dead Than Unwanted![/center][/quote]

Agreed it is tragic. So no plan or would you be willing to adopt? Probably not as long as someone has to deal with it right, just not you.

DoubleDuce · February 9, 2012, 4:39pm

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
]Keep yer pants on until yer married and able to responsibly care for YOUR OWN offspring. [/quote]

Because this has always worked so well to keep people from fucking![/quote]

You are arguing that not having sex is insufficient to prevent people from having sex?

DoubleDuce · February 9, 2012, 4:40pm

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

Now, it may come as a surprise to people in this thread, but I do find human life precious, it’s not to be wasted and people who do that are despicable. But I would rather have an unwanted baby aborted than have it born and thrust on the welfare system to have (most likely) a shitty childhood. There are plenty of unwanted kids already, let’s take care of them first instead of forcing more on an overburdened, underfunded system.[/quote]

Then why not apply the same logic to children currently in the system?

lanchefan1 · February 9, 2012, 4:46pm

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
]Keep yer pants on until yer married and able to responsibly care for YOUR OWN offspring. [/quote]

Because this has always worked so well to keep people from fucking![/quote]

You are arguing that not having sex is insufficient to prevent people from having sex?[/quote]

Funny didn’t realize I was arguing? I was merely pointing out that as long as people have been having sex there have been unplanned pregnancies.

pat · February 9, 2012, 5:10pm

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Grneyes wrote:

[quote]HG Thrower wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
It’s regrettable that Women’s Health will always be intertwined with the very divisive issue of abortion…

Mufasa[/quote]

It’s been purposely framed that way so that anyone who opposes abortion is automatically wrong because then they oppose “Women’s Health”, don’t care about women, etc.

The REAL crux of the issue is when is a fetus a person. All the other arguments are irrelevant. From my perspective, I like to look at the consequences if each side is wrong. If the pro-life crowd is wrong and fetuses are just a blob of cells, then some unwanted babies are born. If the pro-choice crowd is wrong and fetuses are a human being, then you are sanctioning the murder of innocent babies. Since I’m not God, and I don’t know the answer for sure, I’d rather err on the side of caution. Show me a pro-choice activist who can tell you with exact certainty when a fetus becomes a person and I’ll show you a liar.[/quote]

Show me ANYONE who says with exact certainty when a fetus becomes a person and I’ll show you a liar. The truth is, no one can say when. Pro-lifers have their “truth”, pro-choicers have their “truth” and pro-abortionists have their “truth” and NEVER will the three ever agree. It’s medical science vs. religious views and NEVER will those two ever agree either.
[/quote]

Medical sciece favors the view that the fetus is human through out gestation. It’s a living human organism, I challenge you to find a single shred of scientific evidence to the contrary.

Your viewpoint is odd in your claim that you don’t know when human life begins. Wouldn’t that be handy information to know before you decide to kill said human organism?
I mean, in your view, it’s a craps shoot. So you have a 50/ 50 shot that you are committing murder with an abortion, but that’s a chance your willing to take? [/quote]

I have never, and will never consider abortion murder. I am pro-choice, with the caveat that I would not have an abortion or condone an abortion except under extreme conditions. I don’t believe in them being used as birth control, as I had a friend in high school who DID use them as birth control (she was a very good negative role model on why NOT to have sex).

One of the main arguments for/against abortion is when is a human life started? At conception? When it’s still a mass of cells and doesn’t resemble a human at all? Or when the brain is formed? When the heartbeat can be first heard? Is it still murder if there’s no resemblance of human life? Is it still murder if it’s discovered the baby won’t survive pregnancy? Or life after birth? Or are you just preventing needless suffering of the baby and parents? Are you being merciful in stopping something that can’t possibly survive?
[/quote]

Whoa, why the caveat? If there is nothing wrong with abortion, why would you not have one? If there is nothing wrong with it, than you should be having as many as you like with out issue. So if there is nothing wrong with abortion, why wouldn’t you just have them when ever?

I hate this cop-out…“I am pro-choice, but I wouldn’t have an abortion.” Bullshit. You won’t have an abortion because you know it’s wrong even if you are unable to articulate why.

The only argument surrounding abortion is human life. The rest are red herrings and strawmen…The whole, “You’re against women!” bullshit is just a pathetic lacquer used to try and hide the sheer of a morally repugnant act.

There is no discernible break in the human life cycle between conception and death. Nothing make it suddenly human, it is what it is. It’s a living human organism just like you and me, it just has fewer cells. Looks don’t make something what it is, you and I are a clump of cells, just a bigger clump.

See to say that the fetus isn’t a human life is to say that even if your mother had aborted you, you still would have a chance to exist, because what makes you, you, comes in sometimes later. Well, that’s bullshit. If your mother had an abortion, you wouldn’t be and you never would be again. [/quote]

Gee, maybe I have the caveat because I don’t think it’s right to force a woman to have a baby that is the product of a rape? Or force a teenage girl to have a baby that is a product of incest? Or a baby that won’t survive due to a serious congenital birth defect?[/quote]

If I could get rid of all abortions save for the whole rape and incest thing I would take the deal. Considering the fact that that makes up way less than 1% of all abortions, I’ll take the deal.
However, it still is a human being, and why should the kid be killed because of how it was conceived?
The usually a child with a severe defect will miscarry, I ain’t even worried about that.

The caveat is still curious because you are protecting the 99.999% of abortions done as a method of birth control to protect a tiny minority. Most abortions are a matter of convenience not to protect the woman’s life, or in cases of rape or incest. So if you’ll concede the 99% I’ll concede the 1%. That’s fair, isn’t it?[/quote]

Why should a woman who was raped be FORCED to give birth to a kid who is a product of that rape? Why should the rape be allowed to continue like that? It’s traumatic enough, now she has to give birth? WTF? In another argument someone brought up how the woman would know THAT baby was the product of a rape and not the sex her and her husband had right before that. Well, that’s what in utero paternity tests are for.

Not all serious defects miscarry, Bella Santorum, for example. Most infants with her defect die within a week of birth, why even let that pregnancy go full term? Why put the mother, family, baby through that? Granted, she is the exception because she’s 3 years old, but that’s less than 10% of the cases of Trisomy 18.

It’s the right to choose that I support. No one, least of all the gov’t, should be allowed to say what can and cannot happen to YOUR body. I know the majority of abortions are used as a sort of birth control and in some cases probably a very wise decision and made in good faith. If women had more access to affordable birth control, not just condoms, it would help immensely.[/quote]

Birth control is available everywhere, that argument is lame.
[/quote]

Obviously not or people don’t know about it or how to use it. Why all the accidental pregnancies? They can’t all be like my friend who “just couldn’t say no” when it was discovered neither party had a condom. All of her abortions were the result of “not being able to stop” the sex from happening, as in she had no interest in stopping the sex from happening because she knew if she got preggers, she could get an abortion.

EDIT: She had no impulse control, is what I was trying to say, not forced sex or rape. Just couldn’t think of the phrase when I was typing.
[/quote]

She’s one sick piece of shit.

So because she had no impulse control, she just killed the kids when she didn’t want them? Nice…

pat · February 9, 2012, 5:13pm

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
So what is the plan to do with these 1.2 million children per year? Are there that many willing to adopt to fill the demand?[/quote]

Hmmm, I got an idea, why don’t the parents stand up and take care of them??

So, because their parents are pieces of shit, they should be allowed to kill their children just because?

Why don’t we just kill all the useless unwanted people then? I mean killing them is better than them living in a world where they don’t have everything and they are unwanted right?

pat · February 9, 2012, 5:14pm

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
So what is the plan to do with these 1.2 million children per year? Are there that many willing to adopt to fill the demand?[/quote]

If there’s no plan should we continue to kill 'em? You know…for their own good…so they don’t have to grow up “unwanted”?

Just put 'em down like an unwanted dog or cat at the Humane Society, right?

Planned Parenthood’s (and others’) motto:

[center]Better Dead Than Unwanted![/center][/quote]

Better than I said it!

pat · February 9, 2012, 5:16pm

[quote]Oleena wrote:
Man I hope these kids get help:

http://www.adoptuskids.org/_app/child/searchpResults.aspx?pg=6

http://www.adoptuskids.org/_app/child/viewp.aspx?id=39983[/quote]

You can do something about it…

“What’s the matter Colonial Sanders? Chicken?”

sufiandy · February 9, 2012, 5:43pm

[quote]pat wrote:
Hmmm, I got an idea, why don’t the parents stand up and take care of them??
[/quote]

Great idea, can’t believe nobody has told them this yet.

[quote]pat wrote:
So, because their parents are pieces of shit, they should be allowed to kill their children just because?

Why don’t we just kill all the useless unwanted people then? I mean killing them is better than them living in a world where they don’t have everything and they are unwanted right?[/quote]

I asked a question, not suggest a solution.

Grneyes · February 9, 2012, 5:45pm