I don’t know why Eph, but I’ll answer you when I can. Unbelievable. Well, not really.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Your country was founded on the corpses of the native americans, built with the blood and sweat of african slaves and asian migrants. Your ancestors destroyed the bison, wolf and bear and raped the land’s recources.
In the process the USA became incredibly wealthy and powerful but it did so not based on christian values, but by virtue of greed.
[/quote]
Really? Says you? Says Chomsky? Who are you? What are you doing in the Netherlands? Are you Dutch? What are you doing on the continent? What are you doing in Western Europe? What did your forefathers do in the World Wars? Who the fuck are you?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Just imagine: females who can’t move around, work or vote without a males consent must be a christian’s wet dream. Silent baby factories who keep you warm at night and cook you your food. And when they’re snippy you have every right to “caution” them.
I have no doubt you can find something in your holy book to back that up, and guess what? If it’s god’s will then who are you to argue?[/quote]
I’m starting to think there is something actually wrong with you. Christians are not “boogiemen.” If you actually think this and are not trolling, you probably need to go out and befriend some… or seek professional psychiatric help. [/quote]
I think you need to get your head out of the sand and see what’s what.[/quote]
You think “females who can’t move around, work or vote without a males consent must be a christian’s wet dream”. And you think I need to get my head out of the sand, huh? I reiterate: open your eyes, make some christian friends, and I think you may need professional help for paranoia.
For what it’s worth, I would say the EXACT same thing to anyone who hated Blacks, Muslims, Asians, or most any group in GENERAL. There REALLY are some groups that are as horrible as you describe. The vast majority (if not all) Christians in the US are NOT in that group.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
You think “females who can’t move around, work or vote without a males consent must be a christian’s wet dream”. And you think I need to get my head out of the sand, huh? I reiterate: open your eyes, make some christian friends, and I think you may need professional help for paranoia.
For what it’s worth, I would say the EXACT same thing to anyone who hated Blacks, Muslims, Asians, or most any group in GENERAL. There REALLY are some groups that are as horrible as you describe. The vast majority (if not all) Christians in the US are NOT in that group.
[/quote]
It doesn’t matter as the silent majority stands to gain the most from religion in politics.
I realise that a campaign is centered around a number of points that may, or may not, come to fruition once a politician is elected, but you can’t deny the fact that, over the past 15 years or so, the influence of religion on politics has increased greatly.
There are no moderate christians in politics, and they sure aren’t the current republican presidential candidates.
Perhaps it’s because you’re so used to the spiel that you can’t see reality here Gambit, but american politics and politicians are insane.
The same people who clammer for smaller governement, less government interference in people’s lives and FREEDOM have no problem at all with strippping women of their right to choose and dominion over their bodies.
It boggles the mind.
I’m really not sure how you can’t see the extremism in what you are saying.
I’ve made an observation on your domestic political climate regarding the erosion of women’s rights and the ever increasing shift in politics towards christian conservatism.
If there’s extremism in my words it’s because your politics and politicians are, from my perspective, extreme.
I can’t for the life of me understand how it’s possible that guys like Santorum and Romney, and even that ghastly lady whose name I forgot, are popular. Don’t even get me started on Gingrich, but thankfully he’s not a contender.
Can you really not see these people for what they are? Vain, sociopathic, corrupt and fake.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Just imagine: females who can’t move around, work or vote without a males consent must be a christian’s wet dream. Silent baby factories who keep you warm at night and cook you your food. And when they’re snippy you have every right to “caution” them.
I have no doubt you can find something in your holy book to back that up, and guess what? If it’s god’s will then who are you to argue?[/quote]
I’m starting to think there is something actually wrong with you. Christians are not “boogiemen.” If you actually think this and are not trolling, you probably need to go out and befriend some… or seek professional psychiatric help. [/quote]
Religious fanatics are dangerous. They are dangerous to a way of life that’s the opposite of theirs and if give them the power to make changes in legislation they won’t hesitate to make those changes.
[/quote]
Not just the fanatics who disagree with the way of life opposite of theirs. Its really the entire reason religion exists in the first place. People instinctively feel safer in groups of others that agree with them (larger the group the better), it just goes down to a basic survival mechanism we all have.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I’ve made an observation on your domestic political climate regarding the erosion of women’s rights and the ever increasing shift in politics towards christian conservatism.[/quote]
This isn’t what I was talking about. I think you know this. I’ve quoted what I’ve seen as extreme and paranoid.
[quote] If there’s extremism in my words it’s because your politics and politicians are, from my perspective, extreme.
I can’t for the life of me understand how it’s possible that guys like Santorum and Romney, and even that ghastly lady whose name I forgot, are popular. Don’t even get me started on Gingrich, but thankfully he’s not a contender.
Can you really not see these people for what they are? Vain, sociopathic, corrupt and fake.[/quote]
Can I? Yes. Do I understand why they are popular? Yes. Will I ever vote for Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, or Bachmann? No.
But American Christians are not as you make them out to be above. If you truly believe what you wrote, I have told you what I think.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It’s about legitimatizing immorality and I don’t know who you’re talkin to. I have said over and over and over again that coercion cannot ever accomplish what I want. When this nation operated largely within Christian morals we did not have these issues. At least not even approaching the level at which we have them now. Women have been transformed into whores over the last 50 years. Not advanced in anything. That is your perverse notion of equality. It’s not progress it’s damnable whoredom which you love and which is why you didn’t like my post to Oleena. No legislation can solve either that or all the destruction of our society that it is spectacularly bringing about.
I forgot you were in Holland for a second. Drinkin this morning =][/quote]
Excuse me? Whores? Because we want the right to decide when to have kids? Or because birth control has allowed women to be as sexually free as men? What about those women who have such excruciating menstrual cycles that the only way to get through them is by birth control? My best friend has endometriosis and it hurt to even BREATHE during her periods. UNTIL she was put on birth control at age 16 to regulate them. You mean to tell me that she should have suffered every month? No. That is wrong. No merciful, all-loving God would wish that on half of his beloved children.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Not just the fanatics who disagree with the way of life opposite of theirs. Its really the entire reason religion exists in the first place. People instinctively feel safer in groups of others that agree with them (larger the group the better), it just goes down to a basic survival mechanism we all have.[/quote]
That is why I think it’ll only get worse.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I’ve made an observation on your domestic political climate regarding the erosion of women’s rights and the ever increasing shift in politics towards christian conservatism.[/quote]
This isn’t what I was talking about. I think you know this. I’ve quoted what I’ve seen as extreme and paranoid.
[quote] If there’s extremism in my words it’s because your politics and politicians are, from my perspective, extreme.
I can’t for the life of me understand how it’s possible that guys like Santorum and Romney, and even that ghastly lady whose name I forgot, are popular. Don’t even get me started on Gingrich, but thankfully he’s not a contender.
Can you really not see these people for what they are? Vain, sociopathic, corrupt and fake.[/quote]
Can I? Yes. Do I understand why they are popular? Yes. Will I ever vote for Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, or Bachmann? No.
But American Christians are not as you make them out to be above. If you truly believe what you wrote, I have told you what I think. [/quote]
I realise what I’ve said might appear extreme to you, but I only wish you’d see how the american political circus appears to foreign eyes.
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It’s about legitimatizing immorality and I don’t know who you’re talkin to. I have said over and over and over again that coercion cannot ever accomplish what I want. When this nation operated largely within Christian morals we did not have these issues. At least not even approaching the level at which we have them now. Women have been transformed into whores over the last 50 years. Not advanced in anything. That is your perverse notion of equality. It’s not progress it’s damnable whoredom which you love and which is why you didn’t like my post to Oleena. No legislation can solve either that or all the destruction of our society that it is spectacularly bringing about.
I forgot you were in Holland for a second. Drinkin this morning =][/quote]
Excuse me? Whores? Because we want the right to decide when to have kids? Or because birth control has allowed women to be as sexually free as men? What about those women who have such excruciating menstrual cycles that the only way to get through them is by birth control? My best friend has endometriosis and it hurt to even BREATHE during her periods. UNTIL she was put on birth control at age 16 to regulate them. You mean to tell me that she should have suffered every month? No. That is wrong. No merciful, all-loving God would wish that on half of his beloved children.[/quote]
He’s a man, why would he care about female problems?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I’ve made an observation on your domestic political climate regarding the erosion of women’s rights and the ever increasing shift in politics towards christian conservatism.[/quote]
This isn’t what I was talking about. I think you know this. I’ve quoted what I’ve seen as extreme and paranoid.
[quote] If there’s extremism in my words it’s because your politics and politicians are, from my perspective, extreme.
I can’t for the life of me understand how it’s possible that guys like Santorum and Romney, and even that ghastly lady whose name I forgot, are popular. Don’t even get me started on Gingrich, but thankfully he’s not a contender.
Can you really not see these people for what they are? Vain, sociopathic, corrupt and fake.[/quote]
Can I? Yes. Do I understand why they are popular? Yes. Will I ever vote for Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, or Bachmann? No.
But American Christians are not as you make them out to be above. If you truly believe what you wrote, I have told you what I think. [/quote]
I realise what I’ve said might appear extreme to you, but I only wish you’d see how the american political circus appears to foreign eyes.[/quote]
Shit, I think most Americans (and I mean United States of America Americans, not North Americans or South Americans as some people insist on my being precise in who I mean when I say “Americans”) think the same way, that’s why we have such low voter turn out. The past few elections are anomalies.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It’s about legitimatizing immorality and I don’t know who you’re talkin to. I have said over and over and over again that coercion cannot ever accomplish what I want. When this nation operated largely within Christian morals we did not have these issues. At least not even approaching the level at which we have them now. Women have been transformed into whores over the last 50 years. Not advanced in anything. That is your perverse notion of equality. It’s not progress it’s damnable whoredom which you love and which is why you didn’t like my post to Oleena. No legislation can solve either that or all the destruction of our society that it is spectacularly bringing about.
I forgot you were in Holland for a second. Drinkin this morning =][/quote]
Excuse me? Whores? Because we want the right to decide when to have kids? Or because birth control has allowed women to be as sexually free as men? What about those women who have such excruciating menstrual cycles that the only way to get through them is by birth control? My best friend has endometriosis and it hurt to even BREATHE during her periods. UNTIL she was put on birth control at age 16 to regulate them. You mean to tell me that she should have suffered every month? No. That is wrong. No merciful, all-loving God would wish that on half of his beloved children.[/quote]
He’s a man, why would he care about female problems?
[/quote]
Because he’s a follower of the New Testament, which he insists puts women on pedestals. If he follows that cobbled together book of writings, then he should treat women awesomely, right?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I’ve made an observation on your domestic political climate regarding the erosion of women’s rights and the ever increasing shift in politics towards christian conservatism.[/quote]
This isn’t what I was talking about. I think you know this. I’ve quoted what I’ve seen as extreme and paranoid.
[quote] If there’s extremism in my words it’s because your politics and politicians are, from my perspective, extreme.
I can’t for the life of me understand how it’s possible that guys like Santorum and Romney, and even that ghastly lady whose name I forgot, are popular. Don’t even get me started on Gingrich, but thankfully he’s not a contender.
Can you really not see these people for what they are? Vain, sociopathic, corrupt and fake.[/quote]
Can I? Yes. Do I understand why they are popular? Yes. Will I ever vote for Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, or Bachmann? No.
But American Christians are not as you make them out to be above. If you truly believe what you wrote, I have told you what I think. [/quote]
I realise what I’ve said might appear extreme to you, but I only wish you’d see how the american political circus appears to foreign eyes.[/quote]
- Again, I’m not primarily talking about that.
- Your assumption is wrong. I have plenty of experience with “foreign eyes.”
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Your country was founded on the corpses of the native americans, built with the blood and sweat of african slaves and asian migrants. Your ancestors destroyed the bison, wolf and bear and raped the land’s recources.
In the process the USA became incredibly wealthy and powerful but it did so not based on christian values, but by virtue of greed.
[/quote]
Really? Says you? Says Chomsky? Who are you? What are you doing in the Netherlands? Are you Dutch? What are you doing on the continent? What are you doing in Western Europe? What did your forefathers do in the World Wars? Who the fuck are you?[/quote]
Are you really arguing that America’s main motivator wasn’t/isn’t greed? How can you live here and truly believe this? Do you also argue against public health care and to keep the government out of business so that you have the freedom to out-compete your neighbor, get as rich as you want, and keep every bit of what you make?
Are you arguing that slaves and Indians didn’t shed blood in the history of this country?
There are good things about America and there are bad things and unfortunately these tend to be opposite sides of the same coin.
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
I realise what I’ve said might appear extreme to you, but I only wish you’d see how the american political circus appears to foreign eyes.[/quote]
Shit, I think most Americans (and I mean United States of America Americans, not North Americans or South Americans as some people insist on my being precise in who I mean when I say “Americans”) think the same way, that’s why we have such low voter turn out. The past few elections are anomalies.
[/quote]
I sure hope so!
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Grneyes wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It’s about legitimatizing immorality and I don’t know who you’re talkin to. I have said over and over and over again that coercion cannot ever accomplish what I want. When this nation operated largely within Christian morals we did not have these issues. At least not even approaching the level at which we have them now. Women have been transformed into whores over the last 50 years. Not advanced in anything. That is your perverse notion of equality. It’s not progress it’s damnable whoredom which you love and which is why you didn’t like my post to Oleena. No legislation can solve either that or all the destruction of our society that it is spectacularly bringing about.
I forgot you were in Holland for a second. Drinkin this morning =][/quote]
Excuse me? Whores? Because we want the right to decide when to have kids? Or because birth control has allowed women to be as sexually free as men? What about those women who have such excruciating menstrual cycles that the only way to get through them is by birth control? My best friend has endometriosis and it hurt to even BREATHE during her periods. UNTIL she was put on birth control at age 16 to regulate them. You mean to tell me that she should have suffered every month? No. That is wrong. No merciful, all-loving God would wish that on half of his beloved children.[/quote]
He’s a man, why would he care about female problems?
[/quote]
Because he’s a follower of the New Testament, which he insists puts women on pedestals. If he follows that cobbled together book of writings, then he should treat women awesomely, right?
[/quote]
I fear that his standards are different from yours.