Women's Lives Before Politics

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It’s about legitimatizing immorality and I don’t know who you’re talkin to. I have said over and over and over again that coercion cannot ever accomplish what I want. When this nation operated largely within Christian morals we did not have these issues. At least not even approaching the level at which we have them now. Women have been transformed into whores over the last 50 years. Not advanced in anything. That is your perverse notion of equality. It’s not progress it’s damnable whoredom which you love and which is why you didn’t like my post to Oleena. No legislation can solve either that or all the destruction of our society that it is spectacularly bringing about.

I forgot you were in Holland for a second. Drinkin this morning =][/quote]

Thank you for proving my point there T. Women’s lib isn’t the problem, it’s you and those who think like you.

Proost!

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
This isn’t about respect for women and life, this is about being able to control women and their reproductive abilities without condemnation, and you’re using religion to get there.
[/quote]

People have a hard time separating religious values when it comes to making decisions that affect the state. Any argument they make that starts out with logic eventually progresses to a religious belief when they run out of other ways to back it up.[/quote]

There’s a cognitive dissonance at play here that really only shows how far we still have to go as a species before reason and honesty take precedence instead of superstition and fear.

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
This isn’t about respect for women and life, this is about being able to control women and their reproductive abilities without condemnation, and you’re using religion to get there.
[/quote]

People have a hard time separating religious values when it comes to making decisions that affect the state. Any argument they make that starts out with logic eventually progresses to a religious belief when they run out of other ways to back it up.[/quote]

There’s a cognitive dissonance at play here that really only shows how far we still have to go as a species before reason and honesty take precedence instead of superstition and fear.

[/quote]

That would explain the more emotional responses as the conversation goes towards that direction in those cases.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

People have a hard time separating religious values when it comes to making decisions that affect the state. Any argument they make that starts out with logic eventually progresses to a religious belief when they run out of other ways to back it up.[/quote]

How would an atheist explain morality with logic then? I realise that access to pornography is a big sticking point for you but other people are interested in family values and things like that.

Religious beliefs become part of a person’s selfesteem and identity. When something threatens the belief, the believer feels personally attacked and will defend the belief as he’d defend himself against attack.

Combined with an almost religious belief in “the American Dream” and you have a recipe for disaster.

2012 will not be the end of civilisation but it’s going to be an interesting year nonetheless!

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

People have a hard time separating religious values when it comes to making decisions that affect the state. Any argument they make that starts out with logic eventually progresses to a religious belief when they run out of other ways to back it up.[/quote]

How would an atheist explain morality with logic then? I realise that access to pornography is a big sticking point for you but other people are interested in family values and things like that.[/quote]

In most cases they are just based on your life experiences.

I wonder about that. I wonder how many people who advocate some of these things have children. And people who advocate drug legalisation - I wonder if their life experience mostly revolves around imbibing things. Not aiming this at you but at advocates of such things.

Playing the clown is your shtick, not mine. You seem hung-up on the word “ally” and act defensive all of a sudden.

You’re not fooling anyone, Puss.

The way things are going with your great nation, with your consent and applause mind you, is that in a few years, if things do go horribly wrong [from my pov ofcourse] the one superpower left will become a theocracy.

Are you really this blind that you can’t see that one nation governed by religious law is not different from another nation governed by religious law? Especially since both religions have the same roots, both are paternal, misoginystic, exclusive, old fashioned and bigoted.

Like you.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
This isn’t about respect for women and life, this is about being able to control women and their reproductive abilities without condemnation, and you’re using religion to get there.
[/quote]

People have a hard time separating religious values when it comes to making decisions that affect the state. Any argument they make that starts out with logic eventually progresses to a religious belief when they run out of other ways to back it up.[/quote]

It seems to me people are having hard time separating contraception and abortions from health insurance .

What exactly is the small but devastating risk here that requires insurance?

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Playing the clown is your shtick, not mine. You seem hung-up on the word “ally” and act defensive all of a sudden.

You’re not fooling anyone, Puss.

The way things are going with your great nation, with your consent and applause mind you, is that in a few years, if things do go horribly wrong [from my pov ofcourse] the one superpower left will become a theocracy.

Are you really this blind that you can’t see that one nation governed by religious law is not different from another nation governed by religious law? Especially since both religions have the same roots, both are paternal, misoginystic, exclusive, old fashioned and bigoted.

Like you.[/quote]

Come off your horse, you are about 150 years to late for that.

It is not me who wants to set the clock back 150 years.

[quote]ephrem wrote:

…in a few years, if things do go horribly wrong [from my pov ofcourse] the one superpower left will become a theocracy.

[/quote]

[quote]ephrem wrote:
It is not me who wants to set the clock back 150 years.[/quote]No it’s me. You are clueless Ephrem. Like absolutely 100%, clean and swept, devoid of even one particle… clueless. We were never ruled by anything external to the privately held Christian morality of the new Testament. That’s the point. That kind of populous doesn’t need a lot of government because they govern themselves. Once enforcement is required it’s already over. I told Mufasa, who hates the “religious right”, to read Tocqueville’s “Democracy in America” for a portrait of the United States in the 1830’s. (the one that overthrew slavery before you try that one again). No answer. Never is with people who refuse to face the roots of our ascendancy.

Tocqueville was no Christian. He was a political scientist here to study our fledgling nation. A nation on the rise to utterly unprecedented greatness exactly because of her privately held Christian views. Being a rather astute Frenchy he told us that this was all well and good as long as those beliefs held, but disaster was a loomin large on the horizon if we did not. We did not not. Welcome to 21st century rotting decaying America. A culture of filth death and whoredom viewed as liberty and progress. How sick, but totally biblical. It’s exactly as it’s supposed to be.

That Sodom and Gomorrah forum right here on this site is a loud neon monument to the death of a once great nation. Enjoy your victory while you can. My God is not mocked. All throughout history His preferred sentence is giving people what they want. Over and over again. All throughout the prophets God says [quote]“I will give them over to their own corruption lusts and whoredoms”[/quote]. Only national repentance alone can prevent the soon coming final breath of this country. No politician or conservative agenda will make a gnats wortha difference. We must return to our creator and that firm reliance on His divine providence that even Jefferson knew better than to attempt to throw off the shackles of the English crown without.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, yeah I know. What I’m talkin about right now is why Sloth has me on ignore. He knows that people EXACTLY like me (even in theological details) were the mainstream while we are rising. To quote my dear friend :[quote]<<< Oh yes, Tirib, ‘your folks’ certainly were the face of early America, for the most part. But, look at their descendents now. Look at those folks’ country now. Eviscerated. Hollowed out. >>>[/quote]. He’s an honorable man and he spoke the truth too quick without thinkin about the faaaaar reaching implications for his belief in his church until after this was up n live. I challenged him to talk about it some more and he put me on ignore. He knows how that conversation would go. Yes indeed. That is absolutely relevant.

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
I was going to make a joke about this because I didn’t think it was actually happening, but I was wrong.

http://library.adoption.com/articles/the-colors-of-adoption-black-vs.-white.html[/quote]

That’s bullshit. There are too many kids without a home to be picky about culture. I doubt the child is going to be more happy having their culture than having a home that loves them and meets their emotional needs. I think that the person who said that it’s impossible to teach a culture unless you’re in it is probably right, but that doesn’t matter in this case.[/quote]

This is some serious bullshit.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Wow. (a pathetic wow) [/quote]

My exact response.

WHOA, Tiribulus!

I never, EVER have said that I hated the Religious Right…or even HINTED at it with anything I have written. I just don’t feel a need to either love OR hate what someone else chooses to believe. It’s their choice.

The ONLY time I have mentioned the Religious Right (because I tend to stay out of these religious discussions) was in the context of them never voting for a Mormon for President.

Mufasa

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Just imagine: females who can’t move around, work or vote without a males consent must be a christian’s wet dream. Silent baby factories who keep you warm at night and cook you your food. And when they’re snippy you have every right to “caution” them.

I have no doubt you can find something in your holy book to back that up, and guess what? If it’s god’s will then who are you to argue?[/quote]

I’m starting to think there is something actually wrong with you. Christians are not “boogiemen.” If you actually think this and are not trolling, you probably need to go out and befriend some… or seek professional psychiatric help.

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Just imagine: females who can’t move around, work or vote without a males consent must be a christian’s wet dream. Silent baby factories who keep you warm at night and cook you your food. And when they’re snippy you have every right to “caution” them.

I have no doubt you can find something in your holy book to back that up, and guess what? If it’s god’s will then who are you to argue?[/quote]

I’m starting to think there is something actually wrong with you. Christians are not “boogiemen.” If you actually think this and are not trolling, you probably need to go out and befriend some… or seek professional psychiatric help. [/quote]

I think you need to get your head out of the sand and see what’s what.

Religious fanatics are dangerous. They are dangerous to a way of life that’s the opposite of theirs and if give them the power to make changes in legislation they won’t hesitate to make those changes.

Democratic principles are the antithesis of theocratic rule, and the fact that your republican candidates want to turn back to clock 150 years proves this.

Creationism vs evolution - pro-choice vs pro-life - anti-conception vs abstinence-only is a fight between reason and faith. Seeing how reason rarely appeals to emotion I do think that faith will win the fight.

So rejoice, your time is nigh!

[quote]ephrem wrote:
Democratic principles are the antithesis of theocratic rule

[/quote]

Absolutely. Not until the restoration of the Davidic dynasty will there be a legitimate theocracy. No one advocates imposing theocracy on mankind other than Islamists. Radical left-wing ideologues also wish to impose upon free men. We won’t stand for it.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
It is not me who wants to set the clock back 150 years.[/quote]No it’s me. You are clueless Ephrem. Like absolutely 100%, clean and swept, devoid of even one particle… clueless. We were never ruled by anything external to the privately held Christian morality of the new Testament. That’s the point. That kind of populous doesn’t need a lot of government because they govern themselves. Once enforcement is required it’s already over. I told Mufasa, who hates the “religious right”, to read Tocqueville’s “Democracy in America” for a portrait of the United States in the 1830’s. (the one that overthrew slavery before you try that one again). No answer. Never is with people who refuse to face the roots of our ascendancy.

Tocqueville was no Christian. He was a political scientist here to study our fledgling nation. A nation on the rise to utterly unprecedented greatness exactly because of her privately held Christian views. Being a rather astute Frenchy he told us that this was all well and good as long as those beliefs held, but disaster was a loomin large on the horizon if we did not. We did not not. Welcome to 21st century rotting decaying America. A culture of filth death and whoredom viewed as liberty and progress. How sick, but totally biblical. It’s exactly as it’s supposed to be.

That Sodom and Gomorrah forum right here on this site is a loud neon monument to the death of a once great nation. Enjoy your victory while you can. My God is not mocked. All throughout history His preferred sentence is giving people what they want. Over and over again. All throughout the prophets God says [quote]“I will give them over to their own corruption lusts and whoredoms”[/quote]. Only national repentance alone can prevent the soon coming final breath of this country. No politician or conservative agenda will make a gnats wortha difference. We must return to our creator and that firm reliance on His divine providence that even Jefferson knew better than to attempt to throw off the shackles of the English crown without.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, yeah I know. What I’m talkin about right now is why Sloth has me on ignore. He knows that people EXACTLY like me (even in theological details) were the mainstream while we are rising. To quote my dear friend :[quote]<<< Oh yes, Tirib, ‘your folks’ certainly were the face of early America, for the most part. But, look at their descendents now. Look at those folks’ country now. Eviscerated. Hollowed out. >>>[/quote]. He’s an honorable man and he spoke the truth too quick without thinkin about the faaaaar reaching implications for his belief in his church until after this was up n live. I challenged him to talk about it some more and he put me on ignore. He knows how that conversation would go. Yes indeed. That is absolutely relevant.
[/quote]

Dear Tiribulus,

Your country was founded on the corpses of the native americans, built with the blood and sweat of african slaves and asian migrants. Your ancestors destroyed the bison, wolf and bear and raped the land’s recources.

In the process the USA became incredibly wealthy and powerful but it did so not based on christian values, but by virtue of greed.

There’s been no other nation like yours, and there will never be one like it again. It’s a special place, with special people who share an idea: work hard and get rich.

All those millions of immigrants from all over the world; did they think, “Let’s go to the USA because there we’re free to believe in god?”. No, they came for a better life, for wealth and opportunity.

Christianity was, not merely, the glue that kept the idea together, that gave a melting-pot society a way of staying homogenous: the shared american dream.

You want to go back to the 1830s? To a way of living the resembles the thoughts and ideas of the time? Without modern medicine, transport, communication, warfare and media? That’s impossible.

This is why you can never go back. Pining for the good old days is foolishness, and trying to mold modern society in that image is sheer madness.

Drumroll please…

Madness, however, is what I’ve come to expect from you.