Women's Fear of Random Attacks

Off Topic
101

[quote]pushharder wrote:
hedo wrote:
My wife travels a lot. I don’t worry about her too much. She also carries a S&W .357 mag. with her at all times and has been trained how to use it.

Common sense and a .357 will end most attacks but mostly it’s the .357.

Nothing and I mean nothing empowers a woman more than effective training and carry of a weapon. It equalizes everything or rather places her in a superior position.

Because the bottom line is the average woman will never prevail in the average confrontation with even an average male except under some extraordinary circumstances. Most women, and I mean even healthy strong women like those on this site, do not realize how much stronger a man is, even a man of equal size.[/quote]

If he’s in shape because of training or physical work. However strength isn’t all there is to it. Aggression, which men are naturally women need to be trained in as well. Having said that. Now that women are getting into the heavy physical work. Their strength and agression will increase.

I strongly believe in the bottom line. Survival of the fittest, because when you need it you better have it. I keep remembering a line from CSI’s Grissom “If people knew what was out there staking them. They’d never leave the house”. Scary thought, train hard and always be prepared!

102

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Because the bottom line is the average woman will never prevail in the average confrontation with even an average male except under some extraordinary circumstances.[/quote]

The goal isn’t to prevail, it’s to survive, I think the average woman with basic knowledge can survive against the average male. In any confrontation you’re going to take hits, but you can minimize them.

Um, I’m not saying one should be over confident, nor take risks, but there’s no point in giving up just because the odds are against you.

This is spot on. The first time a little guy overpowered me was shocking. Just because you’re similar heights and weights does not mean you’re equals.

103

[quote]pzehtoeur wrote:
My professor in my bioethics class actually mentioned a way to take out a rapist. He said they’ll usually have one arm around your throat to try and choke you so you can’t make that much noise and to basically be in control. My professor said to grab his junk and just let yourself fall (I guess by bringing your legs up or something). Apparently, they will not be able to hold up your body weight and the pain should have them on floor.

Not sure if this will work though so don’t go around thinking you’re invincible now. [/quote]

I’ve held my junk while falling. It saved me.

I hope you dropped that class.

104
105

This is what you should do to rapists. Different setup, but doing the same thing should help.

Make sure you say the same things in the video, it adds to the awesomeness.

106

[quote]pch2 wrote:
This is spot on. The first time a little guy overpowered me was shocking. Just because you’re similar heights and weights does not mean you’re equals. [/quote]

One kick to the balls. Problem solved.

And who says women aren’t strong?

107

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
theOUTLAW wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
theOUTLAW wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
theOUTLAW wrote:
debraD wrote:
I sure would like to know how walking to and from work and running alone equates to one thinking she’s a badass. Seriously, that is absurd.

Hey, I mean if you live in a nice neighborhood where everyone knows everybody…fine. Walking or running at night by yourself though?..

The whole tone of the thread reeks of “badass” and stupidity. “These women are scared…I don’t care…I run by myself…I’m tough. Yeah. Me too! I’m not going to let a man following me bother me…Only a guy who knows me will rape me…I can’t prevent it from happening anyways…” All the women on here think they’re badass (Again, the 5% exception applies here). All because of a message board.

If this doesn’t satisfy you…take the whole badass thing out of what I said, and everything else still stands.

Still not sure where this is coming from. Are you sure you aren’t colouring this with your own perceptions?

Are you saying that because there is a chance that some 200lb man can beat us down we should treat every man as having the potential to do that? Do you agree then that we should fear and avoid you all? If that’s the case I feel sad for all the men.

Yes. Weigh every person as a possible threat according to your intuition. We don’t live in Candyland.

Candyland was a dangerous fucking place. Land on a dot and you’re fucked. Not to mention that creepy molasses dude(rapist potential). Who’s naive?

The idea is that some people’s intuition has been seriously skewed. They see threats where there are none.

I agree. I addressed this in my first post when I said I don’t believe people should be overly fearful of potential threats. It’s just a matter of using your head.

But when it comes down to it…better safe than sorry?

For example…I was washing my car at one of those pay and spray stations by myself near a wooded area. I see a guy walking towards me…I go into react mode. I then see this same guy out of the corner of my eye stop and reach down into his left boot. I then pull out a small boat anchor that I was transporting in my car. The man looks at me…stutters hello and keeps on walking. Is this extreme paranoia? I don’t care.

I agree as well. All I’m trying to get across is that too safe seems to be the prevailing opinion, and not everything is a threat. People would notice if they cared to. A guy walking toward you? Watch him and try to see his intentions, don’t run away or pull a knife. The same guy reaches in his boot? All bets are off. Assess the situation and react accordingly. It seems some people are too unintelligent to pull this off (e.g. those girls I walk behind).

yep… being aware is the key.

but cut the girls some slack! they don’t know you, and aren’t most serial killers are white guys… you don’t drive a yellow Volkswagon do you?

[/quote]

I don’t even drive. How am I supposed to find remote locations for the bodies?

People don’t realize how much it takes. It’s work.

108

[quote]Vicomte wrote:
I don’t even drive. How am I supposed to find remote locations for the bodies?

People don’t realize how much it takes. It’s work.[/quote]

I’m too lazy to be a rapist. Consent is just so much less work.

109

My future wife and daughter are both going to be the proud recipients of a .38 snub nose with the hammer sawed off.

In all honesty your guy would probably prefer to escort you everywhere, but that just isn’t realistic.

Might as well get them a gun.

110

never mind, read later posts, point was clarified

111

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Because the bottom line is the average woman will never prevail in the average confrontation with even an average male except under some extraordinary circumstances. Most women, and I mean even healthy strong women like those on this site, do not realize how much stronger a man is, even a man of equal size.[/quote]

This is the absolute truth. There have been a few posts here about training or MA’s and although I would personally recommend each and every woman to study, I would also encourage them to not let it give them a sense of false security.

I have studied three forms of MMA’s myself and I will state, very confidently, that if a man your size or larger wants to hurt you, he will.

Being aware is not the most important thing. The most important thing is to not put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation to begin with.

112

[quote]pch2 wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Because the bottom line is the average woman will never prevail in the average confrontation with even an average male except under some extraordinary circumstances.

The goal isn’t to prevail, it’s to survive, I think the average woman with basic knowledge can survive against the average male. In any confrontation you’re going to take hits, but you can minimize them.

Um, I’m not saying one should be over confident, nor take risks, but there’s no point in giving up just because the odds are against you.

Most women, and I mean even healthy strong women like those on this site, do not realize how much stronger a man is, even a man of equal size.

This is spot on. The first time a little guy overpowered me was shocking. Just because you’re similar heights and weights does not mean you’re equals. [/quote]

pch2,

I’ll respectfully disagree with the first portion of your response. One must prevail in order to survive. Surviving depends on the good will of the attacker to break off his assault when no clear outcome is apparent. Prevailing in the confrontation makes it the victims choice when to end it should they choose to prevail.

As an example if someone attacks me with a club, a deadly weapon, and has lethal intent such as swinging for my head. I can pepper spray him and this may deter him or it may not. If it does I have survived the encounter due to him choosing to break it off at that point. I survived in this encounter. However should I choose to draw my concealed pistol and double tap him in the chest after he has demonstrated the ability, intent and means to kill me then the decision on how to end the confrontation is mine alone and I have prevailed. The decision being mine not his.

I agree with the rest of your post completely.

113

We should all be microchipped, with the 10 Commandments wired into our brains. Begin to violate one and suffer intense pain. If you actually go through with number 6 (5 for you Catholics and Lutherans :wink: your head explodes!

Damn free will is a bitch though!!! ;>

114

One of my friends is like this. She drives over to our place and when she leaves she makes us watch as she WALKS TO HER CAR, thats maybe 10 feet from our house, because obviously our neighborhood is so dangerous that you can’t go 10 feet without getting raped (it really isnt…our neighborhood is pretty same IMO).

On the other hand I know a girl who is 4’11" who has been mugged multiple times but still doesn’t see a problem with walking through the most dangerous neighborhoods at night.

115

[quote]pch2 wrote:
I put this in my log this morning, and since this thread is so closely related I’m wondering what you all think. Regarding BJJ:

I haven’t really been taking self defense seriously. Honestly the whole idea of actually using any of this in real life (other than playing) seems a bit ridiculous. You’re going to arm bar a stranger? They’re not going to tap, and if they do, you just let them go? Won’t it all start over? Also, in what situations are you supposed to initiate violence? I understand the extremes, but most of life is not the extremes. I frequently encounter random guys that don’t understand personal space, I’m not initiating violence with them.

I went out the other day, and while waiting outside, some drunk guy bear hugged me from behind. At the time I thought, huh t-postion, grab pants toss to ground, but all I did was swat at him and tell him to let go. When do you know if it’s toss or stern voice? Isn’t the point to make the toss a reflex? But then, being impaled on the the cement (the chances of a random guy knowing how to break fall is low) is way too harsh of a punishment for being drunk and touchy. Is it just something you know, and I’ve yet to encounter it?[/quote]

Pch2, here’s what I think. If you’re in a physical confrontation with a stranger & you’ve trained in BJJ as you have, yeah, arm bar him - but don’t wait for the tap, break his freaking elbow & proceed to beating the shit out of him until he is no longer capable of attacking you. One of the cops I trained with chastised me for not striking him hard enough. He told me, “Wake up, Parker. If a man assaults you there is only one reason for it. He is going to rape you or kill you or both. Understand that now & fight like you’re fighting for your life.” Yes, if you let them go it will all start over. It wouldn’t hurt to add some striking skills to your arsenal.

You’re right about guys who don’t understand personal space, most of them don’t mean any harm. But when you get that funny feeling in your stomach & the little voice in you says, “Something’s not right”, please listen to it.

Yeah, we train to make the toss a reflex, but control is the mark of a good martial artist. You obviously made the right choice with the drunk bear-hugger, who was clearly just being silly. But if he didn’t stop, it would have been appropriate to drop him at that point. If you don’t believe someone is trying to assault you, but you want their hands off you now, you can drop him without harming him by this point in your training. We call these “drunk uncle” techniques out here.

One of the best lessons I’ve learned was at a seminar with one of our top guys where he talked about deciding right now - right now! - where your line is, where you will be the one who initiates violence. Because its that scary time where you’re wondering “is this a bad situation? am I in trouble?” that rattles us so much. He gave the example of you getting into a fender bender & the other person becomes irate & pushes you. He may intend to end it there, or he may not, but once his hands are on me one time, its on. I’m smaller & weaker than most men & can’t afford to wait around - I have to end it while I have the chance to win.

The book The Gift of Fear that OG suggested is supposed to be outstanding, and is next on my list. October Girl, if you’re reading this, I’m so sorry to hear you were attacked in that parking lot and then “attacked” again afterward. I hope those bastards went to jail.

116

[quote]Vicomte wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
Vicomte wrote:
SSC wrote:
I can always tell when walking around campus when a girl is suspicious. Apparently logic doesn’t appeal to them - because just maybe my class is in the same direction as hers. Unless some girl is in the middle of Englewood at two o’clock in the morning, it’s all mental.

Ha! I thought I was the only one. They glance back, then lock their head straight ahead and step up the pace a bit; if they’re wearing a skirt, they will suddenly become self-conscious and hold the hem down, like you’re going to try to disrobe them right there. It never occurs to them that you might just be taking a similar route that you’ve used for the past three years. My reaction varies between amusement and annoyed incredulity.

And apparently it never occurs to you that the phrase “better safe than sorry” might be going through their heads.

OP, you do seem to provide some over-the-top examples of peopel who live in unnecessary and unproductive fear, as well as examples of an attitude that could certainly be considered paternalistic (and therefore somewhat patronizing)

…but the fact is that these attitudes exist for a reason. I dont know that the other extreme, a cavalier disregard for ones own safety as well as the physical well-being of others would be any more desirable. I think the poster above me has a similar attitude - unless you have a reason to trust someone, why should you?

There’s a difference between being prudent and being silly. The situation I described is an example of this ‘unnecessary and unproductive fear’. You’re walking in a dark alley by yourself in Compton? Fine. You’re at school in a suburban town in the middle of the day while surrounded by people? A bit silly. What does moving a bit faster and acting scared do to deter an attack, exactly? Like people mentioned before, you act like a victim, you become one. Encouraging people to act like prey in obviously nonthreatening situations is fear-mongering.

Not all attitudes exist for a reason. Fear can be useful, or it can be incapacitating. I mentioned being prepared for trouble as the best option, rather than trying to avoid it all the time, through ridiculously inflated means. Try to avoid it, sure, but be prepared for it to happen, because eventually it cannot be avoided, and then you’re fucked. The scared girl who runs from men in the supermarket is going to be easy prey for the guy in the alley.

If you have no reason to distrust someone, why would you? They should remain somewhat neutral until they are revealed as either or. Be cautious and observant, and be prepared if something goes down. But don’t turn white, hold down your skirt and pray to your god to save your ass.

Fear is only productive if you make it productive. The discussion in this thread is about people who use fear for nothing but to feel afraid.[/quote]

I disagree. I’m a 250 lb male, I was walking in the middle of the day but it was an area that I’m not from and not familiar with and there was nobody in sight. I heard someone coming up from behind me, not running but moving fast, not trying to be quiet, but no exactly announcing his presence either. I discretely cast a glance over my shoulder and as this guy closed the distance between him and me I drifted over to the right to see if he would alter his path. He didn’t, just kept moving on. Probably a guy out for an afternoon jog, even if it was on the coldest day in the last month. That is not a hypothetical, imaginary situation by the way. That did happen the day before yesterday, and that is how I behaved. But what did I lose in that situation? What sense would it have made NOT be be aware of his presence?

I agree with most of what you said, mostly about being prepared, but disagree that this is thread is fear-mongering and with teh rhetorical question “If you have no reason to distrust someone, why would you?” that’s just a flip of the question “if you have no reason to trust someone why would you?” Maybe most of this discussion is really just semantics, and it’s more a question of awareness and precaution than it is fear and paralysis.

117

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
pch2 wrote:
I put this in my log this morning, and since this thread is so closely related I’m wondering what you all think. Regarding BJJ:

I haven’t really been taking self defense seriously. Honestly the whole idea of actually using any of this in real life (other than playing) seems a bit ridiculous. You’re going to arm bar a stranger? They’re not going to tap, and if they do, you just let them go? Won’t it all start over? Also, in what situations are you supposed to initiate violence? I understand the extremes, but most of life is not the extremes. I frequently encounter random guys that don’t understand personal space, I’m not initiating violence with them.

I went out the other day, and while waiting outside, some drunk guy bear hugged me from behind. At the time I thought, huh t-postion, grab pants toss to ground, but all I did was swat at him and tell him to let go. When do you know if it’s toss or stern voice? Isn’t the point to make the toss a reflex? But then, being impaled on the the cement (the chances of a random guy knowing how to break fall is low) is way too harsh of a punishment for being drunk and touchy. Is it just something you know, and I’ve yet to encounter it?

Pch2, here’s what I think. If you’re in a physical confrontation with a stranger & you’ve trained in BJJ as you have, yeah, arm bar him - but don’t wait for the tap, break his freaking elbow & proceed to beating the shit out of him until he is no longer capable of attacking you. One of the cops I trained with chastised me for not striking him hard enough. He told me, “Wake up, Parker. If a man assaults you there is only one reason for it. He is going to rape you or kill you or both. Understand that now & fight like you’re fighting for your life.” Yes, if you let them go it will all start over. It wouldn’t hurt to add some striking skills to your arsenal.

You’re right about guys who don’t understand personal space, most of them don’t mean any harm. But when you get that funny feeling in your stomach & the little voice in you says, “Something’s not right”, please listen to it.

Yeah, we train to make the toss a reflex, but control is the mark of a good martial artist. You obviously made the right choice with the drunk bear-hugger, who was clearly just being silly. But if he didn’t stop, it would have been appropriate to drop him at that point. If you don’t believe someone is trying to assault you, but you want their hands off you now, you can drop him without harming him by this point in your training. We call these “drunk uncle” techniques out here.

One of the best lessons I’ve learned was at a seminar with one of our top guys where he talked about deciding right now - right now! - where your line is, where you will be the one who initiates violence. Because its that scary time where you’re wondering “is this a bad situation? am I in trouble?” that rattles us so much. He gave the example of you getting into a fender bender & the other person becomes irate & pushes you. He may intend to end it there, or he may not, but once his hands are on me one time, its on. I’m smaller & weaker than most men & can’t afford to wait around - I have to end it while I have the chance to win.

The book The Gift of Fear that OG suggested is supposed to be outstanding, and is next on my list. October Girl, if you’re reading this, I’m so sorry to hear you were attacked in that parking lot and then “attacked” again afterward. I hope those bastards went to jail.[/quote]

Miss Parker,

The Gift of Fear is a terrific book. You’ll enjoy it.

The man who trained you to “decide right now” was training you in a method that is based on the OODA feedback loop developed by Col. John Boyd. Observe, Orient, Decide, Act (OODA) is a method to cut your loop shorter and decide in advance before your opponent can orient himself. The method was developed for fighter pilots so they can act faster after observing an opponent.

The man you mentioned was training you to get “inside” your opponents loop, make you the agressor, and disorient your opponent by keeping him reacting instead of acting, ultimately leading to your victory. Sounds like he was a good instructor. OODA is at the core of modern military strategy imo.

118

Thanks, Hedo!

119

[quote]MsM wrote:

This is the absolute truth. There have been a few posts here about training or MA’s and although I would personally recommend each and every woman to study, I would also encourage them to not let it give them a sense of false security.

I have studied three forms of MMA’s myself and I will state, very confidently, that if a man your size or larger wants to hurt you, he will.

Being aware is not the most important thing. The most important thing is to not put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation to begin with. [/quote]

The first lesson is avoidance. Think about what you’re about to do.

The second lesson is analyze the situation. Understand your surrounding and all your options.

The third lesson is survive. Absolute brutality, biggest mistake is not finishing them with one strike.

These are potentially life threatening situations. Guys are not afraid of women. Use this to your advantage and strike first and deadly.

I would never recommend that anyone try to stand and fight an attacker. Disable them, know your surrounding. What weapons are available. Disable does not mean hit and run. It means take the fucker out, you have to think in absolutes in these situations.

There is a difference between MMA and survival. MA trains my daughter to fight. I train her to survive, how to use a small stick, a set of keys, a pen or nail file. As a male I recommend you striking to kill.

The first two lessons are usually enough. Like I’ve posted earlier though. If you end up needing lesson three you better know how to execute it.

120

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
on edge wrote:
My wife goes for walks ant night and I worry about her. Not because I think she’ll get raped, I worry she will get run over. We have no sidewalks and she’s so damn trusting of the cars going by. I ask her “How do you KNOW they see you?” “How do you know they’re not drunk?” Yet she never looks back to make sure the headlights aren’t coming at her and she never veers to the farthest edge of the road.

I guess this is kind of an off topic rant, so sorry, but it pisses me off that she’s so trusting. As I tell my son, “Don’t worry about wearing light colors so the cars see you. Make sure you see the cars.” End rant.

Why dont you tell her to walk on the left side of the road? This way, she’ll be facing oncoming traffic and (God forbid) if there is a car coming her way, she’ll have a much greater chance of dodging it than if it came from behind her.[/quote]

I know it’s in bad form to compare a woman to a dog, but a few years ago a friend was telling me about his Malamute dog. He said “they’re not really trainable, they’re just going to do what they’re gonna do and there’s not much you can do about it”. Upon hearing that I knew the animal my wife is most like is a Malamute dog. No she won’t walk against the traffic or carry a light. Nor will she stop piling dishes on the counter and in the sink, and instead, simply place them in the dishwasher. I just have to accept these things.