[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]bigflamer wrote:
[quote]soccerplayer wrote:
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell0307811.php3
an article by the economist Thomas Sowell which I thought illustrated beautifully the problems w/ Unions:
Cliffs Notes: There is no free-lunch. The illusion of free-lunch in the public sector is paid for by the taxpayers.[/quote]
I am a firefighter, and also one of those dirty uncouth public employee union members that seem to be so unpopular these days. I have no pension, but instead have a 401k style retirement program. I have an HSA (health savings account) health insurance that I contribute to at 10% of the premium. We’re in negotiations right now for a new contract that will give us an RHSA (retirement health savings account), no lifetime health benefits. I’ve had pay freezes for three of the last five years. When I leave the employment of my municipality, I will receive exactly ZERO monetary benefit other than that which I’ve accrued during my employment. And for the record, I think that the benefits listed above are fair, and I’m in no way whining about them, just saying that not every public employee is enjoying this mythical “free lunch”.
I’m also one of the elected executive board members of my local, and have been a part of bargaining the last two contracts. All of the above are things that have been achieved through collective bargaining, you know, that process that people are told doesn’t work for public employee’s. The reality is, that collective bargaining works; it’s the fucking politicians that don’t. [/quote]
I am sorry to hear about this big man, and I mean that honestly. I think that wages should also be based upon things like responsibility, danger, physical stress, etc. People like you and cops should be among the highest paid.
The problem with collective bargaining is when bullshit like the highest paid public employee in Wisconsin is a bus driver. Yes you heard me right. That makes no sense whatsoever. And his insane salary and pension package is based on collective bargaining.
The people who raped collective bargaining as a whole, are also the ones who fucked you and people like you over. I would have no issue at all seeing that cops and firemen getting their share. My beef is when you have teachers (who literally must commit murder to be fired) are among the highest paid when they perform so poorly. I am sick and tired of seeing cubicle hamsters coming out on top when it’s you guys who get fucked. I really mean that seriously. [/quote]
Right, and that’s what happens all too often. Tax increases of all sorts are tied to public safety, and the residents get threatened with firefighter and police payoff if it isn’t passes. They play on the public’s want of public safety and hold them hostage for it. It’s fucking criminal. Add to that, the fact that most local elected officials just honestly don’t give a fuck about cops and firemen. It’s something I didn’t believe either until I had to deal with them. For instance, a couple of contracts ago, they wanted to be able just wash their hands of any fireman that got injured on the job and couldn’t return to work. I said to them at the negotiating table “what if I’m searching a room in structure fire, the roof comes in and I break my back?” their reply was “oh well”. Most of them just don’t care, about either the firemen or the citizens we protect. Sad fact.
The problem is, a municipality has no concern for profit, and has no worry for loss of “customer”. In this scenario, they have no need for employee retention and don’t feel the need to place value on my work experience. In their world, any schmuck that passes through the academy is “good enough”. Municipalities also will spend freely from the public fund with no care as to why they fight for what they do.
In this contract right now, we (the union) came in with a proposal, our proposal mind you, that we increase what we pay in for health care, move to a more stringent retiree health savings account, and take wage freezes. All of this was proposed on our part due to the hard economic times we’re in. All we wanted in return was to be recognized with rank for the work that we already do (we have engineers functioning as Lt’s, but without the rank). We wanted rank with no pay increases to coincide with it, and in return they would’ve saved the taxpayer’s hundreds of thousands. They flat out turned it down. They said that they were prepared to spend, and I quote “an unlimited amount of money in fighting this”; public money. But I mean, hey, why not? After all, it’s not their money they’re spending, right?
If a private sector union had proposed that deal, it would’ve been a slam dunk win for both parties. Why? because financially it would’ve been a huge win for the company. Public officials have no such emotional attachment to the money they work with; it’s just not theirs so why would they?
Personally, I like the benefits that I receive, and I think that they are fair. However, our union has to fight tooth and nail every contract, just to keep them from getting raped. If it was up to them, they’d fire every last one of us, and replace us with hobby firemen getting no benefits. they’ve told me as much. I involved myself with the union some years ago so that I could hopefully interject some of my own ideas into the process and be what I thought was a common sense and fair union.
[/quote]
that is disgusting behavior on the part of the government…absolutely disgusting
Just when you think they can’t behave any more selfishly…they do something like that