Wingspan of a 747 with Thickness to Boot

Training Bodybuilding
101

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
I also want to say that the pullup has helped my back a lot more then the pulldown. I usually stay low reps with a slower negative (3 sec?) and lower reps say 3-5. It probably was a form issue on the pulldown but i love pullups a lot more, just got to get a dipping belt because its stupid trying to hold a 50lb db between your ankles lol.[/quote]

Oh yea, big misconception there. Pullups Do not = Pulldowns.

As for the Belt, one of the best buys ive made towards the gym. My dip belt is included in more than half my workouts now. Just be sure that when you buy it, you buy a belt that doesnt include the chain in the actual waist rap around, but is rather simply connected to the belt. Makes things easier. This is the belt i have-[/quote]

Where’s a good place to get one of those? I can’t find one locally so it’ll have to be an online place it looks like. I’m using my lifting belt, which is pretty flimsy and I’m going to wreck it I’m sure hanging weights off it.[/quote]

I have a regular belt a piece of rope and a clip that works just fine.[/quote]

Hmmm I guess mine is just very flimsy and cheap–I did buy the cheapest but I didn’t intend to use it as a dip belt.

102

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Does no one here do pullovers? I’ve always loved doing pullovers and still do them when my elbows allow it.

Another thing I’ve struggled with is which day to do upper traps (shrugs). I’ve always felt they they get more stimulation on shoulder work than they do rowing or with lat work, so I’ve generally kinda favored doing them with shoulders.[/quote]

i do pullovers, but do them for serratus/chest development/rib cage expansion (though some would call that debatable). I do them with a DB or on my knees with a rope, Old school Arnold style.

I have tried Pullovers with a lat pulldown, and did feel it in my lats, but didnt particularly feel that i needed that movement, so i scrapped it.

103

Alright guys, had a nice conversation with H4M and i figured it could be some useful information for some of you.

ME: Sorry if i misinterpreted your response, didnt mean to sound a dick or anything. Lol i suppose im pretty quick to get defensive with people i dont really joke around with on a regular basis ya know?

hungry4more: No problems bro, easy enough to see how that could come across wrong. As I posted in the thread a few moments ago, I was curious, because they seemed disproportionately lighter than your other back exercises, so I was curious what was up.

ME: Ahh, we’re cool then man. Um, incase i didnt answer it in the thread, im basically working my upper back region, starting from square one. I figured i cant push it into my Lats style routine just yet because my lats are overwhelmingly powerful. Ex: 225 is a tough Pandlay Row for me, while 225 is my 1st non warmup set on regular rowing lol.

hungry4more: So basically you feel your rhomboid region is the weak point in your back, and you have strong traps/lats? Or am I not reading right? I think of pendlays as around half and half rhomboids/lats, but maybe because of your leverages or technique your lats aren’t engaged as much for you…interesting, either way.

ME: Yes, it is that. A good portion of my early back training was basically Lats. I didnt know there were other muscles there. I developed further, figured i needed to hit things differently. I started researching BBer photos, i noticed divets in the upper back. I took an anatomy course, learned of Rhomboids and the Teres Major/minor, Origins of muscles and points of attachments.
When i do Pendlays, i try and take out as much lat as possible. When i watched videos of people doing them, it seemed like everyone was bent perpendicularly, but they were still bringing the weight to the waist. What ive been doing is bringing the weight straight to my chest, there is no angle in the pull. So the entirety of the stress is placed on the upper back (insertions of the traps, rear delt, rhomboid, teres, etc). if i wanted to throw in lats, yea i could probably angle up a tiny bit and pull the weight maybe closer to my lower chest/upper ab, but thats not my goal.

hungry4more: That makes perfect sense.
Have you used BB Rows semi-sumo stance, shoulder width grip, for any substantial amount of time?

ME: Cant say that i have, generally i go shoulder width, and actually have my grip in closer than that, maybe just past the body. When i do this, im generally angled…eh i wanna say 45degrees to the ground. Honestly, its the best feel i can get for my lats, makes for a fantastic stretch on the negative, and just a brute force lat pull through the motion. One of my problems is that i have short arms, so taking a wide grip on anything is really going to hinder my ROM.

hungry4more: I’ll get a video of BB Rows like that next time I do them, just to make sure you can see how they look. I really think you should give them a try like this, if rhomboid strength is your issue. I got them t-rex arms too lol. And it definitely does make wide grip stuff annoying.

I feel theres some good info in that chunk of convo

104

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
Alright guys, had a nice conversation with H4M and i figured it could be some useful information for some of you.
[/quote]

He didn’t mention the violent bukkaking we’d just finished. Bastard.

105

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
Alright guys, had a nice conversation with H4M and i figured it could be some useful information for some of you.
[/quote]

He didn’t mention the violent bukkaking we’d just finished. Bastard. [/quote]

SHHH, i have others on this site man. Gonna blow my cover…

106

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
My favorite back exercises(somewhat in order from most loved to not quite as much):

BB Rows (with semi sumo stance, to keep knees out of the way)

Deadlifts

Pendlay Rows

Rack Chins

DB Rows (kroc rows)

Pin Rows (each rep starts from a dead stop a hair above knee level, pull into the stomach)

T-bar rows

Partial ROM pullups (not so much for beginners though)

Seated cable rows

As a rule of thumb, I do “width” movements with a slower, more controlled tempo (Pendlay rows being the exception), and “thickness” movements with more focus on weight, without compromising a rounded spine/bad form for more weight on the bar.

Get good at these, and you’ll have a helluva back, I promise you that. [/quote]

Good post… When you do bb rows. Do your knees get in the way if you are standing semi sumo? How parallel to the floor are you and where abouts do you pull the bar to? Lower chest area?

EDIT: I just read the above post. Nevermind I will watch your video :slight_smile:

107

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
Alright guys, had a nice conversation with H4M and i figured it could be some useful information for some of you.
[/quote]

He didn’t mention the violent bukkaking we’d just finished. Bastard. [/quote]

SHHH, i have others on this site man. Gonna blow my cover…[/quote]

Sounds like you already blew something

108

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
My favorite back exercises(somewhat in order from most loved to not quite as much):

BB Rows (with semi sumo stance, to keep knees out of the way)

Deadlifts

Pendlay Rows

Rack Chins

DB Rows (kroc rows)

Pin Rows (each rep starts from a dead stop a hair above knee level, pull into the stomach)

T-bar rows

Partial ROM pullups (not so much for beginners though)

Seated cable rows

As a rule of thumb, I do “width” movements with a slower, more controlled tempo (Pendlay rows being the exception), and “thickness” movements with more focus on weight, without compromising a rounded spine/bad form for more weight on the bar.

Get good at these, and you’ll have a helluva back, I promise you that. [/quote]

Good post… When you do bb rows. Do your knees get in the way if you are standing semi sumo? How parallel to the floor are you and where abouts do you pull the bar to? Lower chest area?
[/quote]

Actually, the whole point of the semi-sumo stance, for me, is to keep my knees out of the way. I grip the bar at about shoulder width, more or less so arms reach straight down to grab the bar, and I pull into my belly. As promised to Akuma, I’ll video rows within a day or two, and post the vid here so y’all can see.

109

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
I can’t do a full pull up, when I get to my chin level I can’t pull any farther
Do you guys do pull ups to the upper chest, or just the chin?[/quote]

Are they called “chest up’s” or “chin ups”?[/quote]
lol
I know, but I have read numerous times that going just to chin level is not full, and that you should go until chest touches the bar to fully work the back. Does going from a dead hang to just chin level work the lats well?
Another important question I have is how should the scalps be on pull ups? I have the tendency to round my shoulders forward to cheat on pull ups, but are you supposed to pinch your shoulder blades together at the top?

THANKS!!!1[/quote]

They say that because you see Nubs on the Pull up bar, squeezing out a couple reps while Bobbing their head and extending their jaw to try and make their chin reach this imaginary line. Perform a Rep. See how it feels to you.

As for the scapula…honestly ive never given it a second thought. but you could try finding a spot directly above you on the ceiling and focusing on it, while leaning back a smidgen, and trying to raise yourself to your collar bone. Now, im not saying your collar bone as to touch the bar or anything, but if you trying to match the bar with your collar bone, i really dont see you being able to round your shoulders.[/quote]
Alright I get your point. I do pretty good form, I might use a slight push with one of my toes from a dead hang but I have pretty good form.
As far as the scalps, I meant the shoulder blades not the collarbone, sorry if im confused or took it the wrong way. But what im asking is do you squeeze your shoulder blades at the top of a pull up, or just not worry about it as long as your shoulders arnt rounding forward?

110

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:

[quote]Akuma01 wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
I can’t do a full pull up, when I get to my chin level I can’t pull any farther
Do you guys do pull ups to the upper chest, or just the chin?[/quote]

Are they called “chest up’s” or “chin ups”?[/quote]
lol
I know, but I have read numerous times that going just to chin level is not full, and that you should go until chest touches the bar to fully work the back. Does going from a dead hang to just chin level work the lats well?
Another important question I have is how should the scalps be on pull ups? I have the tendency to round my shoulders forward to cheat on pull ups, but are you supposed to pinch your shoulder blades together at the top?

THANKS!!!1[/quote]

They say that because you see Nubs on the Pull up bar, squeezing out a couple reps while Bobbing their head and extending their jaw to try and make their chin reach this imaginary line. Perform a Rep. See how it feels to you.

As for the scapula…honestly ive never given it a second thought. but you could try finding a spot directly above you on the ceiling and focusing on it, while leaning back a smidgen, and trying to raise yourself to your collar bone. Now, im not saying your collar bone as to touch the bar or anything, but if you trying to match the bar with your collar bone, i really dont see you being able to round your shoulders.[/quote]
Alright I get your point. I do pretty good form, I might use a slight push with one of my toes from a dead hang but I have pretty good form.
As far as the scalps, I meant the shoulder blades not the collarbone, sorry if im confused or took it the wrong way. But what im asking is do you squeeze your shoulder blades at the top of a pull up, or just not worry about it as long as your shoulders arnt rounding forward?[/quote]

Lol i know what your scapula is. What i was saying was i dont worry about my scapula when doing pullups and that i only focused on when i come up, using my collar bone as essentially a measuring stick

111

Alright gotcha,
so heres my back workout: (all are ramped up to a top set failing at about 6-8 reps, except the db rows which are a lil higher maybe 10-12)

sets of pull ups until I reach 15
one arm db rows palms facing in grip
straight bar overhand cable rows, fairly wide grip
one set of high rep one arm db rows, overhand grip (palms down)
chest supported tbar rows
…then i throw in a usually half assed hyperextensions at the end when i am reallyyy tired.

I LOVE this back workout, but what do you recommend for lower back? stick with the 45 degree hyperextensions at the end?

112

also thanks1!!!

113

lower back? Yea lower back extensions, deadlifts, Rack pulls… Good game lol.

114

Meh, can’t say I like anything in that back routine other than the pullups :slight_smile:

I’d ditch one of the one arm rows and swap it with BB row and I’d drop those god forsaken chest supported t-bars for the real thing.

I’m also assuming the wide grip cable row is for the upper back? Decent movement but I’d ditch it for pendlay rows.

Hyperextensions also suck super ass crack, I’d deadlift or at least rack pull

Basically, what I’m saying is if you can’t do 15 BW pull ups in a row, stay off machines. The infamous “cable row” is like quicksand if you don’t no what you are doing. You never get anywhere and yes, ultimately, you will die.

115

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

He didn’t mention the violent bukkaking we’d just finished. Bastard. [/quote]

Pics or GTFO!

116

t bar rows are the ultimate daddy.

117

adds slabs of width

118

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Meh, can’t say I like anything in that back routine other than the pullups :slight_smile:

I’d ditch one of the one arm rows and swap it with BB row and I’d drop those god forsaken chest supported t-bars for the real thing.

I’m also assuming the wide grip cable row is for the upper back? Decent movement but I’d ditch it for pendlay rows.

Hyperextensions also suck super ass crack, I’d deadlift or at least rack pull

Basically, what I’m saying is if you can’t do 15 BW pull ups in a row, stay off machines. The infamous “cable row” is like quicksand if you don’t no what you are doing. You never get anywhere and yes, ultimately, you will die.[/quote]

Way, do you mind posting your back routine?

119

[quote]Elite0423 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
I think DB rows the way jay cutler and almost every other bodybuilder do them meaning smooth and kind of a rowing back motion are > the kroc rows for the lats. Kroc Rows are deff a better exercise for grip strength and overall conditioning though.
[/quote]

I disagree. lots of top bbers do DB rows similar to kroc. Cutler isn’t everyone.[/quote]

Didnt say he was. But I deff feel BB style DB rows more in my lats vs. kroc rows where i feel it in my rear delt, upper back, and grip. Its a great exercise but I think there are deff better alternatives for lat development and bb style db rows being one of them. If you feel kroc rows more then by all means do them. It fascinates me how two people can target completely different muscle groups with the exact same exercise haha.
[/quote]

If we are talking lat specific exercises, then there are better options than either type of row. ;0)

120

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Elite0423 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
I think DB rows the way jay cutler and almost every other bodybuilder do them meaning smooth and kind of a rowing back motion are > the kroc rows for the lats. Kroc Rows are deff a better exercise for grip strength and overall conditioning though.
[/quote]

I disagree. lots of top bbers do DB rows similar to kroc. Cutler isn’t everyone.[/quote]

Didnt say he was. But I deff feel BB style DB rows more in my lats vs. kroc rows where i feel it in my rear delt, upper back, and grip. Its a great exercise but I think there are deff better alternatives for lat development and bb style db rows being one of them. If you feel kroc rows more then by all means do them. It fascinates me how two people can target completely different muscle groups with the exact same exercise haha.
[/quote]

If we are talking lat specific exercises, then there are better options than either type of row. ;0)[/quote]

Any favorites?