Does no one here do pullovers? I’ve always loved doing pullovers and still do them when my elbows allow it.
Another thing I’ve struggled with is which day to do upper traps (shrugs). I’ve always felt they they get more stimulation on shoulder work than they do rowing or with lat work, so I’ve generally kinda favored doing them with shoulders.
I like certain machine pullovers(used Cybex’s yesterday) and pretty much always warm up with a cable “pullover” move before I go into my real back work. Never got a good feel with the free weight versions.
I do upper traps with one of my shoulder days.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
I can’t do a full pull up, when I get to my chin level I can’t pull any farther
Do you guys do pull ups to the upper chest, or just the chin?[/quote]
Are they called “chest up’s” or “chin ups”?[/quote]
lol
I know, but I have read numerous times that going just to chin level is not full, and that you should go until chest touches the bar to fully work the back. Does going from a dead hang to just chin level work the lats well?
Another important question I have is how should the scalps be on pull ups? I have the tendency to round my shoulders forward to cheat on pull ups, but are you supposed to pinch your shoulder blades together at the top?
THANKS!!!1[/quote]
They say that because you see Nubs on the Pull up bar, squeezing out a couple reps while Bobbing their head and extending their jaw to try and make their chin reach this imaginary line. Perform a Rep. See how it feels to you.
As for the scapula…honestly ive never given it a second thought. but you could try finding a spot directly above you on the ceiling and focusing on it, while leaning back a smidgen, and trying to raise yourself to your collar bone. Now, im not saying your collar bone as to touch the bar or anything, but if you trying to match the bar with your collar bone, i really dont see you being able to round your shoulders.[/quote]
I tried doing pull ups where I actually touched my chest to the bar (right under the collar bone) and I will tell you that I was way more sore than usual. Obviously using that extra few inches of ROM will hit muscles that arent usually hit during that movement so it will be sore but I could definitely feel it working my back pretty good…
That being said I still only do a “standard” pull up… chin over the bar and back down. I’ll throw those chest to the bar ones in some times but they are more difficult
speaking of… I need some good exercises for mid/lower traps. any advice?
_Q
Regarding good ole barbell rows, it’s important to remember to resist the weight on the way down. I think it’s easy to lose sight of that and let the negative portion of the rep just kind of drop, but resisting the negative is huge. It seems more intuitive on something like the bench press, but with rows sometimes it doesn’t “feel” so obvious.
Also rowing hard into your waist and contracting & squeezing the back is a sure way to get the most out of your rows, as Akuma pointed out earlier. Focus on the stretch, and the contraction…
I like the barbel rows t-bars being my faveorite because i could always since starting do a reasonably decent weight with good form i think i do 6 or plates for reps. Anyone tried the 1 arm t-bar row? i was thinking of trying it out soon.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Akuma, mind posting your typical back routine? I know your a volume junkie probably like 12 exercises haha !!
[/quote]
haha you fuckers, just when i get home from the gym and sit make me stand back up and go out to my car to get my journal! UGH
sure. I warn you, last week’s back workout was a bit weird. Whenever I dont workout with my Trainer partner, i take the opportunity to jump around on things and experiment lol:
Lat Pulldowns- 15/100x 2
Pullups- 8/Bodyweight, 8/+25lb, 8/+45lb, 8/+70
Parallel Rows (Pendalay apparently lol)- 8/95, 8/135, 8/185, 8/225
DB Rows- 8/60, 8/80, 8/100, 8/120, 8/140
HS Isolateral row (Pinch and negatives accentuated)- 8/180, 8/270, 8/360, 8/450
Rack Pulls-15/135, 15/185, 15/225, 15/275
And that was the Back portion of my workout =p[/quote]
Judging by your numbers on Db rows and Pendlays…you do them pretty strict eh? [/quote]
Well i just recently started doing Pendlays…
I dont really get your approach though, sarcasm isnt too detectable via the internet. So, care to elaborate? [/quote]
No sarcasm, it’s just that you’re a beastly guy, so I figured either A) you were somewhat new to the movements (which apparently is true with pendlay/parallel rows), or B) you’re more of a “feel” guy with those particular exercises. Just curious.
FWIW, I found some pretty cheap DB handles at walmart to overcome the weight problem for DB/kroc rows…yesterday did DB rows 220x8 with them, and they held up just fine. An idea for anyone having issues there.
[quote] pull from the elbows. [quote]
This is one of the best tips for lat pulldown, however most people dont really understand what i’m talking about when I say it. If you truly focus on pulling you elbows down, it really helps target your back and minimises how much your biceps comes into it.
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
Dont care about the pics just yet, we want more information. Anybody can come into a thread and throw up a picture. Whether that picture means anything, is developed to the point where others should listen to their advice, etc is a different story. Discuss now, measure and brag about our PPs later.[/quote]
What do you think of inverted rows Akuma? [/quote]
I dont care for em. I mean, lets look an an inverted row. Its essentially a pullup directed at your upper back area. Well i know my upper back area can deal with a lot more weight than that. I mean yea, i suppose you could do a slightly elevated inverted rows with some plates on me or something, but really i feel its just unecessary. I mean, im starting to detest this movement simply because i see trainers bringing small/frail, large/weak people into a squat rack or smith cage and wasting this piece of equipment so their client can gingerly perform the movement while chatting about their weekend.[/quote]
Yay Lol thats what I think
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Akuma, mind posting your typical back routine? I know your a volume junkie probably like 12 exercises haha !!
[/quote]
haha you fuckers, just when i get home from the gym and sit make me stand back up and go out to my car to get my journal! UGH
sure. I warn you, last week’s back workout was a bit weird. Whenever I dont workout with my Trainer partner, i take the opportunity to jump around on things and experiment lol:
Lat Pulldowns- 15/100x 2
Pullups- 8/Bodyweight, 8/+25lb, 8/+45lb, 8/+70
Parallel Rows (Pendalay apparently lol)- 8/95, 8/135, 8/185, 8/225
DB Rows- 8/60, 8/80, 8/100, 8/120, 8/140
HS Isolateral row (Pinch and negatives accentuated)- 8/180, 8/270, 8/360, 8/450
Rack Pulls-15/135, 15/185, 15/225, 15/275
And that was the Back portion of my workout =p[/quote]
Judging by your numbers on Db rows and Pendlays…you do them pretty strict eh? [/quote]
Well i just recently started doing Pendlays…
I dont really get your approach though, sarcasm isnt too detectable via the internet. So, care to elaborate? [/quote]
No sarcasm, it’s just that you’re a beastly guy, so I figured either A) you were somewhat new to the movements (which apparently is true with pendlay/parallel rows), or B) you’re more of a “feel” guy with those particular exercises. Just curious.
FWIW, I found some pretty cheap DB handles at walmart to overcome the weight problem for DB/kroc rows…yesterday did DB rows 220x8 with them, and they held up just fine. An idea for anyone having issues there. [/quote]
I WAS wondering where the fuck you all of a sudden had 220lbs dumbbells 
Last I heard you were complaining, you maxed the 150s and it felt like cardio lol
[quote]ahu2468 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Akuma, mind posting your typical back routine? I know your a volume junkie probably like 12 exercises haha !!
[/quote]
haha you fuckers, just when i get home from the gym and sit make me stand back up and go out to my car to get my journal! UGH
sure. I warn you, last week’s back workout was a bit weird. Whenever I dont workout with my Trainer partner, i take the opportunity to jump around on things and experiment lol:
Lat Pulldowns- 15/100x 2
Pullups- 8/Bodyweight, 8/+25lb, 8/+45lb, 8/+70
Parallel Rows (Pendalay apparently lol)- 8/95, 8/135, 8/185, 8/225
DB Rows- 8/60, 8/80, 8/100, 8/120, 8/140
HS Isolateral row (Pinch and negatives accentuated)- 8/180, 8/270, 8/360, 8/450
Rack Pulls-15/135, 15/185, 15/225, 15/275
And that was the Back portion of my workout =p[/quote]
Judging by your numbers on Db rows and Pendlays…you do them pretty strict eh? [/quote]
Well i just recently started doing Pendlays…
I dont really get your approach though, sarcasm isnt too detectable via the internet. So, care to elaborate? [/quote]
No sarcasm, it’s just that you’re a beastly guy, so I figured either A) you were somewhat new to the movements (which apparently is true with pendlay/parallel rows), or B) you’re more of a “feel” guy with those particular exercises. Just curious.
FWIW, I found some pretty cheap DB handles at walmart to overcome the weight problem for DB/kroc rows…yesterday did DB rows 220x8 with them, and they held up just fine. An idea for anyone having issues there. [/quote]
I WAS wondering where the fuck you all of a sudden had 220lbs dumbbells Last I heard you were complaining, you maxed the 150s and it felt like cardio lol[/quote]
I make shit happen son
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Does hand placement in the pullup matter. I cant do underhanded or regular pullups but I can knock out 20 neutral grip pullups no problem. But not sure if I feel it in my lats. I agree with Waylander about underhand pulldowns i got those after watching a video of evan centopani and man that stretch is ridiculous. I try not to flex my arms at all while doing these. Any one else think close underhand grip is superior to any other grip for back width? [/quote]
How close a grip are you taling about?
I tried using an underhand grip on lat pulldown after hearing someone on hear mention them. To me it was counter intuative at first, I always thought a wide grip would hit lats more.
After trying them I was a big fan, I use a just narrower than shoulder width grip. I have been doing them for 6 months or more and do them every back workout now. I’m able to feel it in my lats more than pull ups or wide grip.
One adjustment I made which really got my lats HARD was to bring the bar down in an arc away from my body. Its kinda hard to explain but I try to mimic the motion you would have with a machine pullover. I start with the bar over my head but as I pull down, I pull away from my body and then back in with full scap retraction at the bottom.
Seriously TRY IT.
[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Another important question I have is how should the scalps be on pull ups? I have the tendency to round my shoulders forward to cheat on pull ups, but are you supposed to pinch your shoulder blades together at the top?
THANKS!!!1[/quote]
I know this question wasnt directed at me but im my opinion you should definately keep your shoulders retracted during pull ups.
One reason most a lot of people round their shoulders is either from habit or (more often) their back is to weak and their compensating by trying to use their chest and abs.
A lot of people dont realise that the pecs are involved in pull ups and pulldowns (unless you do pullups first thing when your chest is sore from the day before :D). with your arms overhead your pecs are in a stretched position and help to bring the arm down by your side. The pecs are most involved in the bottom and mid range of a pull up and less so right at the top, so by rounding your shoulders at the top you are allowing your pecs to continue contributing.
If you are trying to hit your lats you need to retract the scapula to reduce the involvment of the pecs. Keeping them back also puts your lats in a better position to pull.
Sorry for the wall of text, not meaning to sound condecending at all I hope this helps.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]ahu2468 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Akuma, mind posting your typical back routine? I know your a volume junkie probably like 12 exercises haha !!
[/quote]
haha you fuckers, just when i get home from the gym and sit make me stand back up and go out to my car to get my journal! UGH
sure. I warn you, last week’s back workout was a bit weird. Whenever I dont workout with my Trainer partner, i take the opportunity to jump around on things and experiment lol:
Lat Pulldowns- 15/100x 2
Pullups- 8/Bodyweight, 8/+25lb, 8/+45lb, 8/+70
Parallel Rows (Pendalay apparently lol)- 8/95, 8/135, 8/185, 8/225
DB Rows- 8/60, 8/80, 8/100, 8/120, 8/140
HS Isolateral row (Pinch and negatives accentuated)- 8/180, 8/270, 8/360, 8/450
Rack Pulls-15/135, 15/185, 15/225, 15/275
And that was the Back portion of my workout =p[/quote]
Judging by your numbers on Db rows and Pendlays…you do them pretty strict eh? [/quote]
Well i just recently started doing Pendlays…
I dont really get your approach though, sarcasm isnt too detectable via the internet. So, care to elaborate? [/quote]
No sarcasm, it’s just that you’re a beastly guy, so I figured either A) you were somewhat new to the movements (which apparently is true with pendlay/parallel rows), or B) you’re more of a “feel” guy with those particular exercises. Just curious.
FWIW, I found some pretty cheap DB handles at walmart to overcome the weight problem for DB/kroc rows…yesterday did DB rows 220x8 with them, and they held up just fine. An idea for anyone having issues there. [/quote]
I WAS wondering where the fuck you all of a sudden had 220lbs dumbbells Last I heard you were complaining, you maxed the 150s and it felt like cardio lol[/quote]
I make shit happen son :)[/quote]
Thats cool man, One of the things I look up to and try and instill in myself as a young man is that attitude. You can make excuses, or you can make progress.
Do you keep the DB at the gym?
What would you suggest as en exercise to replace 1-arm DB rows to hit the same musculature? I do them with pretty loose form holding onto a rack in front of me. Unfortunately my schools DB’s don’t go above 100-120 so I’m stuck tying weights on which gets ridiculous after a certain point…and I keep crushing my fingers lol. I was thinking T-bar rows as these seem to be done often with loose form as well, but it seems like they really kill the lower back. I’d probably have to do them just holding onto the bar sometimes too (as opposed to using a V-handle). It would need to be with free weights most of the time, and I’m already doing BB rows and rack chins
[quote]Doyle wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]ahu2468 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Akuma, mind posting your typical back routine? I know your a volume junkie probably like 12 exercises haha !!
[/quote]
haha you fuckers, just when i get home from the gym and sit make me stand back up and go out to my car to get my journal! UGH
sure. I warn you, last week’s back workout was a bit weird. Whenever I dont workout with my Trainer partner, i take the opportunity to jump around on things and experiment lol:
Lat Pulldowns- 15/100x 2
Pullups- 8/Bodyweight, 8/+25lb, 8/+45lb, 8/+70
Parallel Rows (Pendalay apparently lol)- 8/95, 8/135, 8/185, 8/225
DB Rows- 8/60, 8/80, 8/100, 8/120, 8/140
HS Isolateral row (Pinch and negatives accentuated)- 8/180, 8/270, 8/360, 8/450
Rack Pulls-15/135, 15/185, 15/225, 15/275
And that was the Back portion of my workout =p[/quote]
Judging by your numbers on Db rows and Pendlays…you do them pretty strict eh? [/quote]
Well i just recently started doing Pendlays…
I dont really get your approach though, sarcasm isnt too detectable via the internet. So, care to elaborate? [/quote]
No sarcasm, it’s just that you’re a beastly guy, so I figured either A) you were somewhat new to the movements (which apparently is true with pendlay/parallel rows), or B) you’re more of a “feel” guy with those particular exercises. Just curious.
FWIW, I found some pretty cheap DB handles at walmart to overcome the weight problem for DB/kroc rows…yesterday did DB rows 220x8 with them, and they held up just fine. An idea for anyone having issues there. [/quote]
I WAS wondering where the fuck you all of a sudden had 220lbs dumbbells Last I heard you were complaining, you maxed the 150s and it felt like cardio lol[/quote]
I make shit happen son :)[/quote]
Thats cool man, One of the things I look up to and try and instill in myself as a young man is that attitude. You can make excuses, or you can make progress.
Do you keep the DB at the gym?[/quote]
It sits in my car whenever I’m not using it haha. That way I never forget it
[quote]Doyle wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Does hand placement in the pullup matter. I cant do underhanded or regular pullups but I can knock out 20 neutral grip pullups no problem. But not sure if I feel it in my lats. I agree with Waylander about underhand pulldowns i got those after watching a video of evan centopani and man that stretch is ridiculous. I try not to flex my arms at all while doing these. Any one else think close underhand grip is superior to any other grip for back width? [/quote]
How close a grip are you taling about?
I tried using an underhand grip on lat pulldown after hearing someone on hear mention them. To me it was counter intuative at first, I always thought a wide grip would hit lats more.
After trying them I was a big fan, I use a just narrower than shoulder width grip. I have been doing them for 6 months or more and do them every back workout now. I’m able to feel it in my lats more than pull ups or wide grip.
One adjustment I made which really got my lats HARD was to bring the bar down in an arc away from my body. Its kinda hard to explain but I try to mimic the motion you would have with a machine pullover. I start with the bar over my head but as I pull down, I pull away from my body and then back in with full scap retraction at the bottom.
Seriously TRY IT.[/quote]
Haha I know. Its a great exercise. I think any underhand pull down motion be it a hammer strength machine (yates styles) or on a cable machine with a shoulder width or a little more is great for the lats. SQUUUUEEEZZZEEEE haha gotta love dorian !!
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
I think DB rows the way jay cutler and almost every other bodybuilder do them meaning smooth and kind of a rowing back motion are > the kroc rows for the lats. Kroc Rows are deff a better exercise for grip strength and overall conditioning though.
[/quote]
I disagree. lots of top bbers do DB rows similar to kroc. Cutler isn’t everyone.[/quote]
Didnt say he was. But I deff feel BB style DB rows more in my lats vs. kroc rows where i feel it in my rear delt, upper back, and grip. Its a great exercise but I think there are deff better alternatives for lat development and bb style db rows being one of them. If you feel kroc rows more then by all means do them. It fascinates me how two people can target completely different muscle groups with the exact same exercise haha.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Doyle wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]ahu2468 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Akuma01 wrote:
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Akuma, mind posting your typical back routine? I know your a volume junkie probably like 12 exercises haha !!
[/quote]
haha you fuckers, just when i get home from the gym and sit make me stand back up and go out to my car to get my journal! UGH
sure. I warn you, last week’s back workout was a bit weird. Whenever I dont workout with my Trainer partner, i take the opportunity to jump around on things and experiment lol:
Lat Pulldowns- 15/100x 2
Pullups- 8/Bodyweight, 8/+25lb, 8/+45lb, 8/+70
Parallel Rows (Pendalay apparently lol)- 8/95, 8/135, 8/185, 8/225
DB Rows- 8/60, 8/80, 8/100, 8/120, 8/140
HS Isolateral row (Pinch and negatives accentuated)- 8/180, 8/270, 8/360, 8/450
Rack Pulls-15/135, 15/185, 15/225, 15/275
And that was the Back portion of my workout =p[/quote]
Judging by your numbers on Db rows and Pendlays…you do them pretty strict eh? [/quote]
Well i just recently started doing Pendlays…
I dont really get your approach though, sarcasm isnt too detectable via the internet. So, care to elaborate? [/quote]
No sarcasm, it’s just that you’re a beastly guy, so I figured either A) you were somewhat new to the movements (which apparently is true with pendlay/parallel rows), or B) you’re more of a “feel” guy with those particular exercises. Just curious.
FWIW, I found some pretty cheap DB handles at walmart to overcome the weight problem for DB/kroc rows…yesterday did DB rows 220x8 with them, and they held up just fine. An idea for anyone having issues there. [/quote]
I WAS wondering where the fuck you all of a sudden had 220lbs dumbbells Last I heard you were complaining, you maxed the 150s and it felt like cardio lol[/quote]
I make shit happen son :)[/quote]
Thats cool man, One of the things I look up to and try and instill in myself as a young man is that attitude. You can make excuses, or you can make progress.
Do you keep the DB at the gym?[/quote]
It sits in my car whenever I’m not using it haha. That way I never forget it[/quote]
Thats a good idea, haha hope you dont have to do too many miles in your car though