Will the WASP Always Win?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

The English language, after centuries of use, gives the people in such a society an advantage over others. English, with its shades of meaning and heavy emphasis on future-orientation, encourages concept formation.

It therefore follows that WASPs have an advantage over those whose cultures have used less advanced languages, like Arabic. It took English, for ex, to make use of the mathematics discovered by the Arabs and Chinese.

So, yes, WASPs usually win, and will eventually take over the world.

[/quote]

Jeebus, what absolute fucking drivel! I’ll agree that English is probably the most complex language, but what an over-simplistic view!

Read ‘Guns, Germs, and Steel’, you’ll be doing yourself a favor.

62

Speaking of Education:

Teachers unions need to be restructured. The inability to hire new good teachers and the inability to fire bad ones is mind boggling. That being said, teachers need the union…there’s a bit too many parents ready to sue, and school boards ready to cough let go of teachers rather than deal with shitty parents.

It’s too difficult to hire teachers. If a Lawyer or PhD wants to donate a year or two to a failing school, they shouldn’t be forced to “get certified” before they can get insurance and the like.

It’s too difficult to fire bad teachers Tenure has to be rethought.

I support vouchers, but it’s not the panacea that some here seem to think it is. Milwaukee public schools is one of the shittier districts in the nation, yet they’ve had vouchers since 1990. Wiki them for a good read.

It’s too difficult to fire bad administrators. As Irish has been suggesting, the admin plays a huge role (and eats up way too much money IMO).

Too much focus on test results. While there needs to be standards, the focus on test results will lead to “teaching to the test.”

In Japan (where these ideas came from) Two years ago there were mass suicides, as teacher, principles, etc were found to have purposefully excluded non-tested subject from the curriculum (history was perhaps the most outrageous).

63

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Speaking of Education:

Teachers unions need to be restructured. The inability to hire new good teachers and the inability to fire bad ones is mind boggling. That being said, teachers need the union…there’s a bit too many parents ready to sue, and school boards ready to cough let go of teachers rather than deal with shitty parents.

It’s too difficult to hire teachers. If a Lawyer or PhD wants to donate a year or two to a failing school, they shouldn’t be forced to “get certified” before they can get insurance and the like.

It’s too difficult to fire bad teachers Tenure has to be rethought.

I support vouchers, but it’s not the panacea that some here seem to think it is. Milwaukee public schools is one of the shittier districts in the nation, yet they’ve had vouchers since 1990. Wiki them for a good read.

It’s too difficult to fire bad administrators. As Irish has been suggesting, the admin plays a huge role (and eats up way too much money IMO).

Too much focus on test results. While there needs to be standards, the focus on test results will lead to “teaching to the test.”

In Japan (where these ideas came from) Two years ago there were mass suicides, as teacher, principles, etc were found to have purposefully excluded non-tested subject from the curriculum (history was perhaps the most outrageous). [/quote]

I was just listening to the bit today with Michelle Rhee on NPR, and I have to say I am impressed. Did you hear this?

64

[quote]bald eagle wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
I just cant imagine how any body cant Vote for mcain? its such a shame to imagine another 4 years of a bullshit war, with a wasp at the helm. He is bush in sheeps clothing, with a VP that is nothing more than a pretty face to counter his walking dead. This whole thing is misery.

ON a side note I believe that IRAQ was better off with SADDAM, they needed an iron fist ruler, and I ask anyone to question if there life is better today than it was under clinton?

Another dissatisfied foreigner. I’ve noticed that people like you, lixy and horion are really stressing over our election…that’s funny to me.

Really…who cares what you think? Americans will elect who we elect it has little to do with you. Why don’t you worry about your own country?

What an idea…

Because America has shown a big tendency in the last 50 years of fucking with and/or invading little countries?

Invaded?? Just who have we taken over? We have liberated over 1 billion people.

[/quote]

LOL. Right. Liberated. Right.

65

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

LOL. Right. Liberated. Right.
[/quote]

I’m not being funny here Irish, but we still have the moral high ground now that Russia invaded a democratic country. We can always count on those idiots to make us look good.

66

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Speaking of Education:

Teachers unions need to be restructured. The inability to hire new good teachers and the inability to fire bad ones is mind boggling. That being said, teachers need the union…there’s a bit too many parents ready to sue, and school boards ready to cough let go of teachers rather than deal with shitty parents.
[/quote] teachers don’t need the union. some don’t belong to the union now. they should have the choice.

[quote]
It’s too difficult to hire teachers. If a Lawyer or PhD wants to donate a year or two to a failing school, they shouldn’t be forced to “get certified” before they can get insurance and the like.
[/quote] Certifications should be optional. Some parents may feel more confortable with a certification. Requirement for certifications in any industry screws the consumer. It’s the certification body’s way of controlling supply and thus controlling price.

Yep.

there is no panacea. Giving parents a choice and encouraging competition is start, and I can’t see what harm it does. I am not familiar with the Milwaukee experience but in general they should work if:

The amount is significant enough. If the fed kicks in 5k per student now, rather than giving that to the school, give the whole thing to the parents.

The don’t resrict the schools that it can be used for. A little common sense must prevail here. There has to be some sort of accreditation but it can not be over the top and discourage competition.

I can see our gov’t restricting the use of vouchers so much that there can be no real competition.

It has to be a large enough scale and permanent so that competition is encouraged. If you try a trial with limited student population or no commitment to continue the program, no one is going to make the investment needed to set up a proper school to compete.

This would not be a problem for a private school.

this never made sense to me. you have to evaluate progress. If there is a problem with the test, change the test.

[quote]
In Japan (where these ideas came from) Two years ago there were mass suicides, as teacher, principles, etc were found to have purposefully excluded non-tested subject from the curriculum (history was perhaps the most outrageous). [/quote]
If you put the power ($) in the hands of the parents, this should be minimized. Also, if the test doesn’t represent the skills our students need, change the test.

67

[quote]beebuddy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

LOL. Right. Liberated. Right.

I’m not being funny here Irish, but we still have the moral high ground now that Russia invaded a democratic country. We can always count on those idiots to make us look good. [/quote]

No. They just did the same exact thing that we did. Which doesn’t make us, or them, right.

68

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
So it’s a lottery then? Like the draft?
no, there is a voucher for each child. The parents decide where to spend that voucher. This is really very simple.
[/quote]

So every child leaves the school their in to go to another one? So all the crappy students can go to that school and drag it down, instead of fixing the real problem? That’s absolutely ridiculous.

Because in that type of society that you are prescribing, the poor will fall to wayside and become extremely disenfranchised. The wealth will concentrated in the hands of very few (as it is becoming now) and that will cause many, many bad, bloody problems. This is not new, it’s been played out in history time and again.

Said it above. Fixing the schools is the way to go, not letting students jump out like rats from a drowning ship.

At least in NJ, no teacher comes into a district without a superintendent’s recommendation. The standard they have to meet as far as initial certifications are also set by the district.

How they will teach is another thing that is not set by the union- it can be changed.

I agree that firing teachers is next to impossible, and therefore ridiuclous, and their salaries are ridiculously high.

No fucker, it doesn’t. You’re not solving the problem by sending shitty students elsewhere. If anything, you’ll just make the good schools worse. There’s not one thing in that plan that makes any bit of good sense to me.

69

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

No. They just did the same exact thing that we did. Which doesn’t make us, or them, right.[/quote]

Iraq wasn’t a democracy. Georgia is. So we can still condemn Russia’s actions. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t and don’t support invading sovereign nations, but Russia did just give us the moral high ground again. They are buffoons.

70

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
So it’s a lottery then? Like the draft?
no, there is a voucher for each child. The parents decide where to spend that voucher. This is really very simple.

So every child leaves the school their in to go to another one? So all the crappy students can go to that school and drag it down, instead of fixing the real problem? That’s absolutely ridiculous.

They only have that because of worker’s rights movements, unions, and democrats. Right wing Republicans and pro-business factions would think nothing of having them lose that house and that car if it meant cheap, long labor.

No one else in history has minded too much. Because America has a good balance is the reason that the working class lives well.

Do you know what % of americans are members of a Union? I guess the rest of us must all be underpaid.

You also didn’t answer the question. What reason would the “poor” have to…how did you put it…rise up and kill “rich” people?

Because in that type of society that you are prescribing, the poor will fall to wayside and become extremely disenfranchised. The wealth will concentrated in the hands of very few (as it is becoming now) and that will cause many, many bad, bloody problems. This is not new, it’s been played out in history time and again.

See above. Bad idea.

please tell me why letting parents decide how to educate their childeren is worse than continuing to fall behind the rest of the developed world?

Said it above. Fixing the schools is the way to go, not letting students jump out like rats from a drowning ship.

No it isn’t, except you’re wrong. Teachers unions do not make policy, the boards do. And yes, I go to them all the fucking time. Parents, if they are complaining, hold more power than the teacher’s unions.

wrong. Teachers unions decide what teacher make, how they are promoted, how they are hired, what standards they are to meet, how they are fired, and how they will teach. What power to parents have exactly?

At least in NJ, no teacher comes into a district without a superintendent’s recommendation. The standard they have to meet as far as initial certifications are also set by the district.

How they will teach is another thing that is not set by the union- it can be changed.

I agree that firing teachers is next to impossible, and therefore ridiuclous, and their salaries are ridiculously high.

Because again, you can’t let some out and let the rest sink with the ship. Competition is good, but it won’t happen in the day of gauaranteed salaries, tenure, and all the other crap. It will just keep going down.

You still don’t get it. No one should be forced to attend a substandard school and nobody would be if they had a voucher in hand. Not every school has to unionize, or hire union teachers, or abide by union rules.

Alternative education practices are working in the free markey as we speak, but only the wealthy can take advantage of them. Sound fair?

No fucker, it doesn’t. You’re not solving the problem by sending shitty students elsewhere. If anything, you’ll just make the good schools worse. There’s not one thing in that plan that makes any bit of good sense to me.[/quote]

If you are unable to use basic logic and reason, I can’t continue this conversation. If logic and reason are tools you posses but are too lazy to use, please go out to the shed, dust off the toolbox and get them out. Once you’ve done this, come back here and reread you post and think through your argument.

71

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
So it’s a lottery then? Like the draft?
no, there is a voucher for each child. The parents decide where to spend that voucher. This is really very simple.

So every child leaves the school their in to go to another one? So all the crappy students can go to that school and drag it down, instead of fixing the real problem? That’s absolutely ridiculous.

They only have that because of worker’s rights movements, unions, and democrats. Right wing Republicans and pro-business factions would think nothing of having them lose that house and that car if it meant cheap, long labor.

No one else in history has minded too much. Because America has a good balance is the reason that the working class lives well.

Do you know what % of americans are members of a Union? I guess the rest of us must all be underpaid.

You also didn’t answer the question. What reason would the “poor” have to…how did you put it…rise up and kill “rich” people?

Because in that type of society that you are prescribing, the poor will fall to wayside and become extremely disenfranchised. The wealth will concentrated in the hands of very few (as it is becoming now) and that will cause many, many bad, bloody problems. This is not new, it’s been played out in history time and again.

See above. Bad idea.

please tell me why letting parents decide how to educate their childeren is worse than continuing to fall behind the rest of the developed world?

Said it above. Fixing the schools is the way to go, not letting students jump out like rats from a drowning ship.

No it isn’t, except you’re wrong. Teachers unions do not make policy, the boards do. And yes, I go to them all the fucking time. Parents, if they are complaining, hold more power than the teacher’s unions.

wrong. Teachers unions decide what teacher make, how they are promoted, how they are hired, what standards they are to meet, how they are fired, and how they will teach. What power to parents have exactly?

At least in NJ, no teacher comes into a district without a superintendent’s recommendation. The standard they have to meet as far as initial certifications are also set by the district.

How they will teach is another thing that is not set by the union- it can be changed.

I agree that firing teachers is next to impossible, and therefore ridiuclous, and their salaries are ridiculously high.

Because again, you can’t let some out and let the rest sink with the ship. Competition is good, but it won’t happen in the day of gauaranteed salaries, tenure, and all the other crap. It will just keep going down.

You still don’t get it. No one should be forced to attend a substandard school and nobody would be if they had a voucher in hand. Not every school has to unionize, or hire union teachers, or abide by union rules.

Alternative education practices are working in the free markey as we speak, but only the wealthy can take advantage of them. Sound fair?

No fucker, it doesn’t. You’re not solving the problem by sending shitty students elsewhere. If anything, you’ll just make the good schools worse. There’s not one thing in that plan that makes any bit of good sense to me.

If you are unable to use basic logic and reason, I can’t continue this conversation. If logic and reason are tools you posses but are too lazy to use, please go out to the shed, dust off the toolbox and get them out. Once you’ve done this, come back here and reread you post and think through your argument.
[/quote]

I’ve stated my position. I don’t believe yours is right, and I think I’ve made valid arguments otherwise.

As such, you can blow me.

72

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
I just cant imagine how any body cant Vote for mcain? its such a shame to imagine another 4 years of a bullshit war, with a wasp at the helm. He is bush in sheeps clothing, with a VP that is nothing more than a pretty face to counter his walking dead. This whole thing is misery.

ON a side note I believe that IRAQ was better off with SADDAM, they needed an iron fist ruler, and I ask anyone to question if there life is better today than it was under clinton?

Another dissatisfied foreigner. I’ve noticed that people like you, lixy and horion are really stressing over our election…that’s funny to me.

Really…who cares what you think? Americans will elect who we elect it has little to do with you. Why don’t you worry about your own country?

What an idea…

Because America has shown a big tendency in the last 50 years of fucking with and/or invading little countries?

Invaded?? Just who have we taken over? We have liberated over 1 billion people.

LOL. Right. Liberated. Right.
[/quote]

You obviously hate this country. Funny, it is the only country in the world where people risk death to get here everyday. In case you need to be reminded, there are no walls keeping you here - so don’t let the door hit you…

73

[quote]bald eagle wrote:

You obviously hate this country. Funny, it is the only country in the world where people risk death to get here everyday. In case you need to be reminded, there are no walls keeping you here - so don’t let the door hit you…
[/quote]

HAHA! Because I don’t agree with our foreign policy? Fuck yourself grandpa, you have no idea.

74

[quote]MISCONCEPTION wrote:
I just cant imagine how any body cant Vote for mcain?

[/quote]

I just can’t imagine how anybody can’t vote for McCain either, because he’s awesome.

75

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Interesting stuff.

Interesting read, Pookie. Thanks.[/quote]

The funny thing is that, as a computer programmer, I see the same effect happening with regard to how programmers approach solving a problem. I work with web developpers, many of whom learned programming by themselves, starting from simple web pages, then going on to learn javascript, vbscript, PHP and similar “web related” technologies.

When presented with a problem, their thinking revolves around the browser. Any input required will be from a web form; their code will run on a web server, etc. Even if the problem domain does not require any web tech at all, because it is the only thing they know, that’s how they’ll solve the problem.

Now, most human languages are much more versatile and so the problem is not so apparent. Reading the Sapif-Whorf thing, I was thinking about some of the differences between French and English (since those are the two languages I know fluently.)

I’m not sure how they affect thinking about stuff, but one difference is that French does not have a neutral gender (the English “it” of “he/she/it”), so all our objects are gendered. A patato is feminine (une patate), while a steak is masculine (un steak). A source of endless confusion for people who learn French as a second language.

Another difference that comes to mind is that in English, there is no difference between the 2nd person singular and plural when using verbs. So while it’s “I am” and “We are”, the 2nd persons are “You are” and “You are”… In French, it’s “Tu es” et “Vous êtes”. One side effect from that is that it is a mark of respect to address a single person with the plural form, and considered “overly familiar” to address a stranger using the singular form, unless he’s a child. So if you ask a stranger for help in English, and want to be respectful, you’ll usually add “sir” or “m’am” at the end. “Could you help me, sir?” vs. “Could you help me?” In French, you’d simply use “Pourriez-vous m’aider?” instead of the singular and familiar “Peux-tu m’aider?”

Those examples are rather trivial, and the differences don’t really prevent or enable anything in one language that you can’t replicate in the other, but I find it very interesting to wonder if some thoughts or concepts are easier to think about in language X.

76

[quote]bald eagle wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
I just cant imagine how any body cant Vote for mcain? its such a shame to imagine another 4 years of a bullshit war, with a wasp at the helm. He is bush in sheeps clothing, with a VP that is nothing more than a pretty face to counter his walking dead. This whole thing is misery.

ON a side note I believe that IRAQ was better off with SADDAM, they needed an iron fist ruler, and I ask anyone to question if there life is better today than it was under clinton?

Another dissatisfied foreigner. I’ve noticed that people like you, lixy and horion are really stressing over our election…that’s funny to me.

Really…who cares what you think? Americans will elect who we elect it has little to do with you. Why don’t you worry about your own country?

What an idea…

Because America has shown a big tendency in the last 50 years of fucking with and/or invading little countries?

Invaded?? Just who have we taken over? We have liberated over 1 billion people.

LOL. Right. Liberated. Right.

You obviously hate this country. Funny, it is the only country in the world where people risk death to get here everyday. In case you need to be reminded, there are no walls keeping you here - so don’t let the door hit you…
[/quote]

Then all those people dying to get into Spain must be a figment of someone’s fertile imagination.

77

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Then all those people dying to get into Spain must be a figment of someone’s fertile imagination.

[/quote]

The Canaries is one of the most popular destinations for Africans trying to reach Europe to escape poverty.

Sounds like they are just trying to get out of Africa - and the Canaries is the closest place to go. They are not going to Spain - they are using one of Spain’s Imperialistic holdings as a first step.

People coming to the US are not coming here as a stop over. This IS the destination.

See the difference?

78

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
Then all those people dying to get into Spain must be a figment of someone’s fertile imagination.

The Canaries is one of the most popular destinations for Africans trying to reach Europe to escape poverty.

Sounds like they are just trying to get out of Africa - and the Canaries is the closest place to go. They are not going to Spain - they are using one of Spain’s Imperialistic holdings as a first step.

People coming to the US are not coming here as a stop over. This IS the destination.

See the difference?

[/quote]

Most of them stay in Spain because it is more lenient on immigrants at this point than other EU destinations.And of course one could also say that the main driver for the largest portion of immigration to the U.S. is also geographical proximity(Mexico).

That of course,as you well know,was not the point of my post,was it?

It was a rebuttal to the line :

“Funny, it is the only country in the world where people risk death to get here everyday.”

Which is obviously not the case,is it?

Edited for clarity

79

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

LOL. Right. Liberated. Right.

I’m not being funny here Irish, but we still have the moral high ground now that Russia invaded a democratic country. We can always count on those idiots to make us look good.

No. They just did the same exact thing that we did. Which doesn’t make us, or them, right.[/quote]

There are Americans in Mexico and the Mexicans shelled their cities?

80

[quote]orion wrote:
There are Americans in Mexico and the Mexicans shelled their cities?
[/quote]

No, but they will arrest Americans and throw them in prison for no reason.