Will the WASP Always Win?

[Beowolf]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
I just cant imagine how any body cant Vote for mcain? its such a shame to imagine another 4 years of a bullshit war, with a wasp at the helm. He is bush in sheeps clothing, with a VP that is nothing more than a pretty face to counter his walking dead. This whole thing is misery.

ON a side note I believe that IRAQ was better off with SADDAM, they needed an iron fist ruler, and I ask anyone to question if there life is better today than it was under clinton?

The English language, after centuries of use, gives the people in such a society an advantage over others. English, with its shades of meaning and heavy emphasis on future-orientation, encourages concept formation.

It therefore follows that WASPs have an advantage over those whose cultures have used less advanced languages, like Arabic. It took English, for ex, to make use of the mathematics discovered by the Arabs and Chinese.

So, yes, WASPs usually win, and will eventually take over the world.

You are so fucking disgustingly delusional it sickens me that you teach children, and the fact that someone hasn’t thrown your ass in Bellevue continually amazes me.[/quote]

Stop feedin’ the troll. You’re gonna make him fat

[dhickey]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
People say this.

What do you think the underlying problems are?[/quote]

Me first. I think it’s the entitlement mentality. People think they can go find a job that provides for the bare minimum of their needs and provides the least inconvenience. They then expect gov’t to pick up the check for the rest.

This has created two classes, those that take initiative and those that don’t but expect the results of initiative.

Life isn’t fair and I don’t know why we put so much emphasis on fairness of material goods and income? Some people are smarter than the rest of us. Should they be labotomized? Some are better looking than others. Should they be mutilated?

If not, why do we obsess about taking money from the wealthy and giving to the “poor”? What is the definition of “poor”. The very poorest in the this country enjoy more creature comforts than some of the wealtiest 100 years ago.

I guess enough food to make you 300lbs, a place to live, a car, cable tv, a playstation, money for vices like cigarettes and booze is now poor and deserving of forcably taking my money.

[anon31651765]

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
People say this.

What do you think the underlying problems are?

Me first. I think it’s the entitlement mentality. People think they can go find a job that provides for the bare minimum of their needs and provides the least inconvenience.

They then expect gov’t to pick up the check for the rest. This has created two classes, those that take initiative and those that don’t but expect the results of initiative.

Life isn’t fair and I don’t know why we put so much emphasis on fairness of material goods and income? Some people are smarter than the rest of us. Should they be labotomized? Some are better looking than others.

Should they be mutilated? If not, why do we obsess about taking money from the wealthy and giving to the “poor”? What is the definition of “poor”. The very poorest in the this country enjoy more creature comforts than some of the wealtiest 100 years ago.

I guess enough food to make you 300lbs, a place to live, a car, cable tv, a playstation, money for vices like cigarettes and booze is now poor and deserving of forcably taking my money. [/quote]

First of all, that has nothing to do with the educational system. Maybe you feel the result does, but nowhere in that post did you mention what the schools were doing wrong.

Second of all, if you want to sound like a fascist, then stay on your present course. In 30 years, you’ll be just like HH.

No issue is as black and white as you make it. It’s just not the way it goes.

Besides that, no one here is arguing for Communism, which is the only thing that could cause thr ridiculous reactionary nature of this post. I’m sure some cunt who votes GOP will slap your back, but that’s not good enough here.

[anon31651765]

[quote]pat wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
seriously it comes down to SELF INTEREST groups and how is most PUPPETED by them. REplublicans are much more interested in big business, than the benefits of the people. That is not a conspiracy theory.

Mccain will step up in the shoes of benefiting big business, oil companies, and all the people who voted for bush last term will be thinking the same thing two years from now that they made a mistake just like the do now.

But its even worse, DO you actually think that PALIN is gonna have any power? she will just sit back and do charity work while MCCAIN plays war games.

OUR ECONOMY will suffer, oil will sky rocket , we will be in iraq for ten more years. HE will feed bush’s companies, and halburton.

BUY remember we got to protect ourselves from terrorists right?

7000 people a year die from aspirin reactions, the fourth leading cause of death in the united states is pharmacalogical drug interaction.

TERRORISTS? try nothing in the last seven years? HAVE FUN BELIEVING THE PRESS!

foreigner ? stupid? im American, but I believe the economy needs to have all that war money pumped into education, thus balancing out the divide between the rich and the poor. ThatS THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THIS ECONOMY.

Hmmm, sound like a moveon.org mission statement.

If you want socialism move to a socialist country. Wealth redistribution and government intrusiveness is not why this country was founded. Independence is better than dependence. Dependence on the government makes us slaves to it.

Education is a black hole economically. Money goes in and never comes out. So putting it there to stimulate the economy is just dumb.

Oil is going down and the problem is solvable. Drill here and utilize alternatives. Just like Paris Hilton suggests. Drilling our own oil will give us far more control over world prices as will needing less of it.

This is not rocket science. The democrats still want us to rely on our enemies for resources, I hope I don’t have to explain why that is idiotic.

If people make stupid drug decisions, I don’t see how that’s my problem…People die from something all the time. We are not immortal we are all going to die, the government will not give you eternal life, just ask Ted Kennedy.

If you eliminate the number one cause of death, number two will become number one. The same amount of people die no matter what. You can’t stop people from being stupid. Behaviour control will not save anyone, it hasn’t yet…You know like that “war on drugs” thing? Boy that worked. Just as many people die every year with prohibition as would without.

There is a reason we haven’t had any terrorist attacks in 7 years. We took the fight to them. As bad an idea as going into iraq was, it did have the handy side effect of drawing the terrorists there.

It not like they got bored with us or something. They have tried multiple attacks on us, they just failed because we caught them.[/quote]

Wow. Did you copy that off the GOP website or did you puke and it just came out?

[Qualay]

I have to say. I believe that the conservative line is a bunch of bullshit, but this thread is demeaning to those who believe that for intelligent reasons. McCain’s being a Wasp has nothing to do with why one should or should not vote for him.

I’m not going to get into the politics but race/ethnicity should have no influence on any intelligent person’s vote.

and on another note I go to a small liberal college, and being here has made me less liberal…

[anon31651765]

[quote]Qualay wrote:
I have to say. I believe that the conservative line is a bunch of bullshit, but this thread is demeaning to those who believe that for intelligent reasons. McCain’s being a Wasp has nothing to do with why one should or should not vote for him.

I’m not going to get into the politics but race/ethnicity should have no influence on any intelligent person’s vote.
[/quote]

No shit.

The OP is either a troll or a kid, or both.

[rainjack]

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
You want me to find a period where all parts of the economy grew?
[/quote]

Yes - I do. Your word is worthless. And spare me the economics 101 bullshit.

If you couldn’t make money in the last 10 years, it is your own fault. If I can do it, it’s not that fucking hard.

But - regardless of whatever crap you come up with to try and make your point, the larger issue is that you think it is incumbent on those who make the money to give it to the poor, who didn’t do a thing to earn it?

I’d love to know what income tax bracket you are in - being that you are so eager to take my money from me.

[dhickey]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

First of all, that has nothing to do with the educational system. Maybe you feel the result does, but nowhere in that post did you mention what the schools were doing wrong.
[/quote]correct, sorry. what’s wrong with the students not the schools. What’s wrong with schools?

1. Teachers unions. Pay based on seniority and not performance or other qualifications is ridiculous. Making industry experts or subject matter experts start at the same wage and 22 year old fresh out of a BA program is ridiculous.

2. Monopoly on education. There are plenty of inovative education institutions that are only available to those that can pay for public education (taxes) and for private. I fail to see the objection to vouchers for education rather than direct subsidization of schools.

Our educational whoas could be solved quite easily with simple competition. Competition = inovation. Bureaucracy = stagnation.

[quote]
Second of all, if you want to sound like a fascist, then stay on your present course. In 30 years, you’ll be just like HH.
[/quote] Do you understand what facism is? I don’t want gov’t control of private resourses.

[quote]
No issue is as black and white as you make it. It’s just not the way it goes.
[/quote]example?

[quote]
Besides that, no one here is arguing for Communism, which is the only thing that could cause thr ridiculous reactionary nature of this post. I’m sure some cunt who votes GOP will slap your back, but that’s not good enough here.[/quote]
We spend more money on educations yet we fall further behind. We spend more money on social program only to create more dependants and more need. 40% of my salary is taken from me. The gov’t spends money it does not have.

The largest landlord in the country is the federal gov’t. The larges property owner in the country is the federal gov’t. The largest employer in the country is the federal gov’t. You right, I guess we are only half way to socialism. No need for alarm.

By the way I am not a republican and probably will not be voting republican for the presidencial election, so I doubt any GOPers will be slapping me on the back for that.

[anon31651765]

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

First of all, that has nothing to do with the educational system. Maybe you feel the result does, but nowhere in that post did you mention what the schools were doing wrong.
correct, sorry. what’s wrong with the students not the schools. What’s wrong with schools?

1. Teachers unions. Pay based on seniority and not performance or other qualifications is ridiculous. Making industry experts or subject matter experts start at the same wage and 22 year old fresh out of a BA program is ridiculous.
   [/quote]

This I cannot argue with.

2. Monopoly on education. There are plenty of inovative education institutions that are only available to those that can pay for public education (taxes) and for private.

I fail to see the objection to vouchers for education rather than direct subsidization of schools. Our educational whoas could be solved quite easily with simple competition. Competition = inovation. Bureaucracy = stagnation.

At the base, the schools need good leaders. I have watched some piss poor school districts turn around completely becuase of the ideas of a few people, with the willingness to implement.

The answer is not letting the smart kids trickle out of districts - that’s a band aid on a massive problem. I’m not sure if you’re advocating privatization to some extent, but I don’t know that I would agree with that as the golden way.

Second of all, if you want to sound like a fascist, then stay on your present course. In 30 years, you’ll be just like HH.
Do you understand what facism is? I don’t want gov’t control of private resourses.

Not what I meant. Facism will concentrate the moeny and the power in the hands of a select oligarchy. That’s the end result of what you’re saying.

Regardless of whether you think that’s the way the world should be, the simple fact is that if you ignore the poor long enough, they rise up and kill you. Not a good policy amigo.

No issue is as black and white as you make it. It’s just not the way it goes.
example?

Your whole post, and the idea that an entire generation of people has some kind of sense of entitlement that wasn’t there before.

[quote]
Besides that, no one here is arguing for Communism, which is the only thing that could cause thr ridiculous reactionary nature of this post. I’m sure some cunt who votes GOP will slap your back, but that’s not good enough here.

We spend more money on educations yet we fall further behind. We spend more money on social program only to create more dependants and more need. 40% of my salary is taken from me.

The gov’t spends money it does not have. The largest landlord in the country is the federal gov’t. The larges property owner in the country is the federal gov’t. The largest employer in the country is the federal gov’t. You right, I guess we are only half way to socialism. No need for alarm.

By the way I am not a republican and probably will not be voting republican for the presidencial election, so I doubt any GOPers will be slapping me on the back for that.[/quote]

It is my opinion that the problems in the educational system can be solved at the local level far easier than at the national level. Your choice of superintendent of schools in your own town will do you a lot better than waiting for the federal government to fix it.

For every person that complains about how bad education is, I wonder how many of them attend their Board of Education meetings. For every person that complains about the taxes, I wonder how many have written letters to newspapers, or even have any idea what their town’s budget looks like so they can see where their tax dollars go.

I see a lot of complaining on message boards… but not so much action from people. I’m not saying you, of course, just people in general.

[dhickey]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

2. Monopoly on education. There are plenty of inovative education institutions that are only available to those that can pay for public education (taxes) and for private.

At the base, the schools need good leaders. I have watched some piss poor school districts turn around completely becuase of the ideas of a few people, with the willingness to implement.

The answer is not letting the smart kids trickle out of districts - that’s a band aid on a massive problem. I’m not sure if you’re advocating privatization to some extent, but I don’t know that I would agree with that as the golden way.
[/quote] vouchers would not be given out based on intelligence. Why should only the rich kids trickle out of substandard schools.

Not what I meant. Facism will concentrate the moeny and the power in the hands of a select oligarchy. That’s the end result of what you’re saying.

Regardless of whether you think that’s the way the world should be, the simple fact is that if you ignore the poor long enough, they rise up and kill you. Not a good policy amigo.

Why, becuase they only have one car and can’t afford premium cable channels?

[quote]
It is my opinion that the problems in the educational system can be solved at the local level far easier than at the national level. Your choice of superintendent of schools in your own town will do you a lot better than waiting for the federal government to fix it.
[/quote] Agreed. The federal government needs to get out of the way. All they have to do send the parents a voucher.

[quote]
For every person that complains about how bad education is, I wonder how many of them attend their Board of Education meetings.
[/quote] have you ever gone to one? In my experience parents have lost any control they may have had in the past. The teachers unions are running the school boards.
If we allow competition we allow for the balance of power to tipped back to parents. Not that difficult to understand.

[quote]
For every person that complains about the taxes, I wonder how many have written letters to newspapers, or even have any idea what their town’s budget looks like so they can see where their tax dollars go.
[/quote]100% agree.

[quote]
I see a lot of complaining on message boards… but not so much action from people. I’m not saying you, of course, just people in general.[/quote]
100% agree.

I still don’t understand why anyone would object to vouchers and giving parents some control over their childrens education. What is the harm? If public schools can compete we all win. If they can’t, should we force the future of this country to stay there?

[anon31651765]

[quote]dhickey wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:

2. Monopoly on education. There are plenty of inovative education institutions that are only available to those that can pay for public education (taxes) and for private.

At the base, the schools need good leaders. I have watched some piss poor school districts turn around completely becuase of the ideas of a few people, with the willingness to implement.

The answer is not letting the smart kids trickle out of districts - that’s a band aid on a massive problem. I’m not sure if you’re advocating privatization to some extent, but I don’t know that I would agree with that as the golden way.
vouchers would not be given out based on intelligence. Why should only the rich kids trickle out of substandard schools.
[/quote]

So it’s a lottery then? Like the draft?

One way or another, you can’t let some kids out and leave the rest to rot. It’s not right.

Not what I meant. Facism will concentrate the moeny and the power in the hands of a select oligarchy. That’s the end result of what you’re saying.

Regardless of whether you think that’s the way the world should be, the simple fact is that if you ignore the poor long enough, they rise up and kill you. Not a good policy amigo.

Why, becuase they only have one car and can’t afford premium cable channels?

They only have that because of worker’s rights movements, unions, and democrats. Right wing Republicans and pro-business factions would think nothing of having them lose that house and that car if it meant cheap, long labor. No one else in history has minded too much. Because America has a good balance is the reason that the working class lives well.

It is my opinion that the problems in the educational system can be solved at the local level far easier than at the national level. Your choice of superintendent of schools in your own town will do you a lot better than waiting for the federal government to fix it.
Agreed. The federal government needs to get out of the way. All they have to do send the parents a voucher.

See above. Bad idea.

For every person that complains about how bad education is, I wonder how many of them attend their Board of Education meetings.
have you ever gone to one? In my experience parents have lost any control they may have had in the past. The teachers unions are running the school boards.
If we allow competition we allow for the balance of power to tipped back to parents. Not that difficult to understand.

No it isn’t, except you’re wrong. Teachers unions do not make policy, the boards do. And yes, I go to them all the fucking time. Parents, if they are complaining, hold more power than the teacher’s unions.

I still don’t understand why anyone would object to vouchers and giving parents some control over their childrens education. What is the harm? If public schools can compete we all win. If they can’t, should we force the future of this country to stay there?

Because again, you can’t let some out and let the rest sink with the ship. Competition is good, but it won’t happen in the day of gauaranteed salaries, tenure, and all the other crap. It will just keep going down.

[jp_dubya]

[quote]Qualay wrote:

and on another note I go to a small liberal college, and being here has made me less liberal…[/quote]
But why? Is it the gobs of liberal professors who haven’t ever been away from a campus?

[Headhunter]

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

The English language, after centuries of use, gives the people in such a society an advantage over others. English, with its shades of meaning and heavy emphasis on future-orientation, encourages concept formation. It therefore follows that WASPs have an advantage over those whose cultures have used less advanced languages, like Arabic. It took English, for ex, to make use of the mathematics discovered by the Arabs and Chinese.

So, yes, WASPs usually win, and will eventually take over the world.

Linguistic relativity

Interesting stuff.
[/quote]

Interesting read, Pookie. Thanks.

[bald_eagle1]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
I just cant imagine how any body cant Vote for mcain? its such a shame to imagine another 4 years of a bullshit war, with a wasp at the helm. He is bush in sheeps clothing, with a VP that is nothing more than a pretty face to counter his walking dead. This whole thing is misery.

ON a side note I believe that IRAQ was better off with SADDAM, they needed an iron fist ruler, and I ask anyone to question if there life is better today than it was under clinton?

Another dissatisfied foreigner. I’ve noticed that people like you, lixy and horion are really stressing over our election…that’s funny to me.

Really…who cares what you think? Americans will elect who we elect it has little to do with you. Why don’t you worry about your own country?

What an idea…

Because America has shown a big tendency in the last 50 years of fucking with and/or invading little countries?[/quote]

Invaded?? Just who have we taken over? We have liberated over 1 billion people.

[dhickey]

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
So it’s a lottery then? Like the draft?
[/quote] no, there is a voucher for each child. The parents decide where to spend that voucher. This is really very simple.

One way or another, you can’t let some kids out and leave the rest to rot. It’s not right.

every parent has a choice, not just the rich ones.

[quote]
They only have that because of worker’s rights movements, unions, and democrats. Right wing Republicans and pro-business factions would think nothing of having them lose that house and that car if it meant cheap, long labor. No one else in history has minded too much. Because America has a good balance is the reason that the working class lives well.
[/quote] Do you know what % of americans are members of a Union? I guess the rest of us must all be underpaid.
You also didn’t answer the question. What reason would the “poor” have to…how did you put it…rise up and kill “rich” people?

[quote]
See above. Bad idea.
[/quote] please tell me why letting parents decide how to educate their childeren is worse than continuing to fall behind the rest of the developed world?

No it isn’t, except you’re wrong. Teachers unions do not make policy, the boards do. And yes, I go to them all the fucking time. Parents, if they are complaining, hold more power than the teacher’s unions.

wrong. Teachers unions decide what teacher make, how they are promoted, how they are hired, what standards they are to meet, how they are fired, and how they will teach. What power to parents have exactly?

[quote]
Because again, you can’t let some out and let the rest sink with the ship. Competition is good, but it won’t happen in the day of gauaranteed salaries, tenure, and all the other crap. It will just keep going down.[/quote]

You still don’t get it. No one should be forced to attend a substandard school and nobody would be if they had a voucher in hand. Not every school has to unionize, or hire union teachers, or abide by union rules. Alternative education practices are working in the free markey as we speak, but only the wealthy can take advantage of them. Sound fair?

[Gael]

[quote]bald eagle wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
I just cant imagine how any body cant Vote for mcain? its such a shame to imagine another 4 years of a bullshit war, with a wasp at the helm. He is bush in sheeps clothing, with a VP that is nothing more than a pretty face to counter his walking dead. This whole thing is misery.

ON a side note I believe that IRAQ was better off with SADDAM, they needed an iron fist ruler, and I ask anyone to question if there life is better today than it was under clinton?

Another dissatisfied foreigner. I’ve noticed that people like you, lixy and horion are really stressing over our election…that’s funny to me.

Really…who cares what you think? Americans will elect who we elect it has little to do with you. Why don’t you worry about your own country?

What an idea…

Because America has shown a big tendency in the last 50 years of fucking with and/or invading little countries?

Invaded?? Just who have we taken over? We have liberated over 1 billion people.

[/quote]

It’s funny how the right doesn’t want “government intervention” unless of course we’re talking about our government intervening in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation that is a little too socialist for our tastes. Or one that implements land reform, tolerates labor unions, or in general isn’t “tough enough on the left.”

In 1954 the CIA orchestrated a coup in Guatemala against democratically elected Arbenz and installed Castillo who ruled as an absolute dictator, forcing peasants off the land, forming death squads, banning all political parties except his own, restricting the right to vote, purging the government of all suspected of left wing sympathies. 40 years of terror, torture, and mass executions followed.

The justification for the coup was that the Soviets were about to take over. In reality, the Russians had so little interest in the country that they didn’t even maintain diplomatic relations.

The real problem was that Arbenz’s land reform policies took over some of the uncultivated land of United Fruit, which had extremely close ties to the American power elite. As such, Arbenz had to go, even if this meant initiating one of the most bloody and violent chapters in the history of the 20th century.

“This is the first instance in history where a Communist government has been replaced by a free one.” Richard Nixon, 1955

And this is a story not unique in the history of American foreign interventions. In the last 60 years, Washington participated in countless variations on the same story in dozens and dozens (50+) of countries, continuing through the cold war to the 90s under Clinton and today.

[dhickey]

[quote]Gael wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
MISCONCEPTION wrote:
I just cant imagine how any body cant Vote for mcain? its such a shame to imagine another 4 years of a bullshit war, with a wasp at the helm. He is bush in sheeps clothing, with a VP that is nothing more than a pretty face to counter his walking dead. This whole thing is misery.

ON a side note I believe that IRAQ was better off with SADDAM, they needed an iron fist ruler, and I ask anyone to question if there life is better today than it was under clinton?

Another dissatisfied foreigner. I’ve noticed that people like you, lixy and horion are really stressing over our election…that’s funny to me.

Really…who cares what you think? Americans will elect who we elect it has little to do with you. Why don’t you worry about your own country?

What an idea…

Because America has shown a big tendency in the last 50 years of fucking with and/or invading little countries?

Invaded?? Just who have we taken over? We have liberated over 1 billion people.

It’s funny how the right doesn’t want “government intervention” unless of course we’re talking about our government intervening in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation that is a little too socialist for our tastes. Or one that implements land reform, tolerates labor unions, or in general isn’t “tough enough on the left.”

In 1954 the CIA orchestrated a coup in Guatemala against democratically elected Arbenz and installed Castillo who ruled as an absolute dictator, forcing peasants off the land, forming death squads, banning all political parties except his own, restricting the right to vote, purging the government of all suspected of left wing sympathies.

40 years of terror, torture, and mass executions followed.

The justification for the coup was that the Soviets were about to take over. In reality, the Russians had so little interest in the country that they didn’t even maintain diplomatic relations.

The real problem was that Arbenz’s land reform policies took over some of the uncultivated land of United Fruit, which had extremely close ties to the American power elite. As such, Arbenz had to go, even if this meant initiating one of the most bloody and violent chapters in the history of the 20th century.

“This is the first instance in history where a Communist government has been replaced by a free one.” Richard Nixon, 1955

And this is a story not unique in the history of American foreign interventions. In the last 60 years, Washington participated in countless variations on the same story in dozens and dozens (50+) of countries.[/quote]

You can hardly pin the CIA bumblings on a particular party. They have long history of fuck-ups with both parties in office. Presidents rarely knew much of what these guys were doing. CIA distrusted most presidents.

[Gael]

Where did I blame anything on a particular party? I just edited my post.

Clinton, Carter and Kennedy are not guiltless.

[dhickey]

[quote]Gael wrote:
Where did I blame anything on a particular party? I just edited my post.

Clinton, Carter and Kennedy are not guiltless.[/quote]

maybe I misunderstood your point. You started your post making a comment about the right. If you haven’t read it already, Legacy of Ashes is one of the most interesting books I have read lately.

[beebuddy]

McCain is an Irish name, not WASPy at all. Either way, WTF is wrong with W.A.S.P.s anyway? I’m half WASP half celt!!

http://uhblog.ulsterheritage.com/2008/01/senator-john-mccain-and-ireland.html

According to this article the man’s family came from Ireland. So he’s as much of a WASP as JFK!