Will PCT Inhibit Collagen Synthesis?

Pharma
1

Hello everyone.

Quick question.

I’m finishing up a 12 week light EQ cycle (about 325 mg/week) that was specifically for rehabbing a back injury (possible annular ring tear.) It feels alot better now. Slowly worked up the weight I lifted with swings, deadlifts, and Olympic lifting, and I havn’t had a problem with it. My concern is with my PCT.

I read that taking regular test severely slows down collagen synthesis. Now granted I’m not taking test for PCT, but I do know that taking nolvadex is supposed to increase your endogenous test production by something like 300% (I could be slightly off).

So my question is, will taking my PCT severely slow down my body’s collagen synthesis? I didn’t feel like I really shut down all that hard from the cycle and I’m not really trying to keep any muscular or strength gains that I made from the cycle (which were not many at all. Weight and BF% didn’t change much at all, neither did strength, except in the lifts previously mentioned, which would’ve gone up at about the same rate probably.) So should I just skip PCT? Maybe an amended version of PCT to lower the time that my collegen synthesis will be reduced from the Nolva (that is, if it indeed does slow down collagen synthesis). FYI I’m 5’9" and about 180 at about 10% BF.

Thanks

2

bump… anyone know?

3

I’m confused about why your concern for collagen synthesis is taking precedence over restoring your test levels to normal?

4

I’ve lost practically all my skin from reduced collagen synthesis while using androgens. “Stay away from the steriods,” that’s what this guy at the gym told me. “NO Explode is all you need.”

And I know he was right because he was huge at only age 16.

I think you are right, Nolvadex or Clomid probably will make people lose most or all of their skin too from reduced collagen synthesis. Nothing worse than a roid raging guy with no skin.

5

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’ve lost practically all my skin from reduced collagen synthesis while using androgens. “Stay away from the steriods,” that’s what this guy at the gym told me. “NO Explode is all you need.”

And I know he was right because he was huge at only age 16.

I think you are right, Nolvadex or Clomid probably will make people lose most or all of their skin too from reduced collagen synthesis. Nothing worse than a roid raging guy with no skin.[/quote]

I lol’d

This may be the most sarcastic post I’ve ever seen you make. (I’ve read most of them too lol)

6

:slight_smile:

7

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
I’ve lost practically all my skin from reduced collagen synthesis while using androgens. “Stay away from the steriods,” that’s what this guy at the gym told me. “NO Explode is all you need.”

And I know he was right because he was huge at only age 16.

I think you are right, Nolvadex or Clomid probably will make people lose most or all of their skin too from reduced collagen synthesis. Nothing worse than a roid raging guy with no skin.

I lol’d

This may be the most sarcastic post I’ve ever seen you make. (I’ve read most of them too lol) [/quote]

Thank you for having that post bonez. I was staring at Bill Roberts’ for way too long going “wut?” I should go to bed I guess haha

8

As a serious reply on the same matter – the above is on account of the fact that it is already certain and obvious that there is zero evidence that high-normal testosterone,

Which is all one usually gets with a SERM, causes collagen problems, and zero evidence that even high-dose testosterone does this and it’s not as if there is no track record of high-dose testosterone use, so concern about this being an issue simply doesn’t make sense –

I suppose what the OP may be referring to may have to do with the error many make of not looking at what comparison a study is actually making.

If the comparison is effect of testosterone at normal levels versus ZERO level, then it is a complete mistake to assume that high-normal or supraphysiological levels are going to continue that same trend.

For example, it used to be constantly claimed in bb’ing that the “androgen receptor downregulates” in response to anabolic steroid use.

If those trying to come to conclusions from studies had paid attention to the above principle, they would have seen that the only downregulation reported was between zero and normal level, not between normal and high-normal or between normal and supraphysiological. In fact the reverse trend occurs as levels rise above normal.

I have not looked into this particular question the OP raises. However, it is apparent that for some reason, which is not simply from estrogen, a woman’s skin appears and feels obviously different from a man’s.

Perhaps there is a collagen-related difference that exists between the low levels of testosterone typical of women and normal levels for a man. I don’t know, but perhaps.

If so that would NOT even begin to imply that increasing T levels to high normal would cause problems regarding collagen, or even going supraphysiological.

Besides this, such levels are hardly an unknown frontier, and clearly there is no real problem here, from experience. Hence the above as it’s a lot shorter and more definitive – if read between the lines – than trying to put it the way I did in this post.

9

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’ve lost practically all my skin from reduced collagen synthesis while using androgens. “Stay away from the steriods,” that’s what this guy at the gym told me. “NO Explode is all you need.”

And I know he was right because he was huge at only age 16.

I think you are right, Nolvadex or Clomid probably will make people lose most or all of their skin too from reduced collagen synthesis. Nothing worse than a roid raging guy with no skin.[/quote]

lmao whenever I read Bill’s posts I put on my thinking cap and pull out my mental notebook. This one had me running circles, I was so confused. Then I realized it was sarcasm…whew that was a close one rofl.

10

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
I’ve lost practically all my skin from reduced collagen synthesis while using androgens. “Stay away from the steriods,” that’s what this guy at the gym told me. “NO Explode is all you need.”

And I know he was right because he was huge at only age 16.

I think you are right, Nolvadex or Clomid probably will make people lose most or all of their skin too from reduced collagen synthesis. Nothing worse than a roid raging guy with no skin.

lmao whenever I read Bill’s posts I put on my thinking cap and pull out my mental notebook. This one had me running circles, I was so confused. Then I realized it was sarcasm…whew that was a close one rofl.

[/quote]

We can take remedial classes together bro1!!

11

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’ve lost practically all my skin from reduced collagen synthesis while using androgens. “Stay away from the steriods,” that’s what this guy at the gym told me. “NO Explode is all you need.”

And I know he was right because he was huge at only age 16.

I think you are right, Nolvadex or Clomid probably will make people lose most or all of their skin too from reduced collagen synthesis. Nothing worse than a roid raging guy with no skin.[/quote]

lol.

Bill was so kind as to lay it out for you.

But even then I promise there isnt an SERM out there that can boost T levels 300%.

We wouldn’t bother with injecting test if we could simply triple our natural production.

12

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’ve lost practically all my skin from reduced collagen synthesis while using androgens. “Stay away from the steriods,” that’s what this guy at the gym told me. “NO Explode is all you need.”

And I know he was right because he was huge at only age 16.

I think you are right, Nolvadex or Clomid probably will make people lose most or all of their skin too from reduced collagen synthesis. Nothing worse than a roid raging guy with no skin.[/quote]

If the Staff does a special article for new years… this should be post of the year.

13

Thanks! :slight_smile:

I did fail in one area though. Seeing the post again, I realize I really should have written instead, with the below spelling (but not the italics, that is just to highlight the difference):

“I think you are right, Nolvadex or Clomid probably will make people loose most or all of their skin too from reduced collagen synthesis.”

That would have been such a good touch.

14

The main reason it was so funny is that people, myself included, did not at all expect sarcasm on that scale, your posts are usually very intellectual and to the point, even backed up with cited sources.

When I began reading your post I was expecting something more akin to your second post, when it was a roid raging skinless NO xplode joke it threw me off for a few seconds.

Good times.

15

^exactly, I don’t post here much but I lurk like a motherfucker and I read it like “Wait, Really?? OMG!” I was going to bust out my notebook and scribble some notes… I had to re-read it about three times to catch the sarcasm (ey ar thupid).

16

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’ve lost practically all my skin from reduced collagen synthesis while using androgens. “Stay away from the steriods,” that’s what this guy at the gym told me. “NO Explode is all you need.”

And I know he was right because he was huge at only age 16.

I think you are right, Nolvadex or Clomid probably will make people lose most or all of their skin too from reduced collagen synthesis. Nothing worse than a roid raging guy with no skin.[/quote]

He… he made a funny!

17

[quote]OnePremier wrote:
Hello everyone.

Quick question.

I’m finishing up a 12 week light EQ cycle (about 325 mg/week) that was specifically for rehabbing a back injury (possible annular ring tear.) It feels alot better now. Slowly worked up the weight I lifted with swings, deadlifts, and Olympic lifting, and I havn’t had a problem with it. My concern is with my PCT.

I read that taking regular test severely slows down collagen synthesis. Now granted I’m not taking test for PCT, but I do know that taking nolvadex is supposed to increase your endogenous test production by something like 300% (I could be slightly off).

So my question is, will taking my PCT severely slow down my body’s collagen synthesis? I didn’t feel like I really shut down all that hard from the cycle and I’m not really trying to keep any muscular or strength gains that I made from the cycle (which were not many at all. Weight and BF% didn’t change much at all, neither did strength, except in the lifts previously mentioned, which would’ve gone up at about the same rate probably.) So should I just skip PCT? Maybe an amended version of PCT to lower the time that my collegen synthesis will be reduced from the Nolva (that is, if it indeed does slow down collagen synthesis). FYI I’m 5’9" and about 180 at about 10% BF.

Thanks[/quote]

What a great cycle. A mild drug in non-effective doses used for 3 months - giving zero muscular gains, zero strength gains - of which you desire to keep none… wow. Please keep posting to teach us a little more about the most effective steroid use.

I wish i had your drive and ambition.

Brook

18

[quote] Brook wrote:
OnePremier wrote:
Hello everyone.

Quick question.

I’m finishing up a 12 week light EQ cycle (about 325 mg/week) that was specifically for rehabbing a back injury (possible annular ring tear.) It feels alot better now. Slowly worked up the weight I lifted with swings, deadlifts, and Olympic lifting, and I havn’t had a problem with it. My concern is with my PCT.

I read that taking regular test severely slows down collagen synthesis. Now granted I’m not taking test for PCT, but I do know that taking nolvadex is supposed to increase your endogenous test production by something like 300% (I could be slightly off).

So my question is, will taking my PCT severely slow down my body’s collagen synthesis? I didn’t feel like I really shut down all that hard from the cycle and I’m not really trying to keep any muscular or strength gains that I made from the cycle (which were not many at all. Weight and BF% didn’t change much at all, neither did strength, except in the lifts previously mentioned, which would’ve gone up at about the same rate probably.) So should I just skip PCT? Maybe an amended version of PCT to lower the time that my collegen synthesis will be reduced from the Nolva (that is, if it indeed does slow down collagen synthesis). FYI I’m 5’9" and about 180 at about 10% BF.

Thanks

What a great cycle. A mild drug in non-effective doses used for 3 months - giving zero muscular gains, zero strength gains - of which you desire to keep none… wow. Please keep posting to teach us a little more about the most effective steroid use.

I wish i had your drive and ambition.

Brook[/quote]

Umm, not everyone has the same goals as you. See, like I said before, I’m not a bodybuilder or a powerlifter, and I have sufficent strength and size for the type of training I do (Crossfit). The reason I took this low dose cycle was to help rehab a back injury that was most likely an annular ring tear. From what I’ve read, EQ, along with certain other drugs significantly help collagen synthesis. And what are the annular ligaments of the intervertabral discs made out of? That’s right, collagen fibers. So would it be safe to assume that an increase in collagen synthesis would help in healing a back injury?

Well, 3 months after being on and no pain after 2 of them… from a back injury that has been plaguing me for almost two years… I’m pretty convinced.

So A. I never said anything about how others should effectively use steriods.
and B. Why would I be looking for significant muscular and strength gains when I said that THE ONLY REASON I WAS TAKING THEM WAS TO REHAB AN INJURY.
and C. Why the passive aggressiveness?

And thank you Bill. I’ve read and been told though that significantly higher test levels result in a sever drop in collagen synthesis, which, in my concern, would impair the body’s ability to repair damaged ligaments and tendons. I guess there is no evidence to support this?

19

From the practical standpoint, if anything recovery from injury is faster when using androgens.