Why Would Someone NOT Get Bigger?

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]
In the trained population this would be more difficult to do but it would usually be done by increasing coordination in a movement, learning to do a certain movement more efficiently. If you take a guy that can bench 135 and then teach him how to do it more efficiently and then he can bench 225, he is stronger is he not? [/quote]

He would also be a very rare specimen to go from lifting 135 to 225 with NO gains in muscle mass at all. Has ANYONE here done that?[/quote]

Umm - of course not - I am just giving an exaggerated example to make my point. However, a year ago I could not pull myself but a few inches in a one arm pullup attempt and now I can pull up my entire body weight more than once. I have been training for years before I set upon the one-arm pullup goal, so I was not untrained when I started this. I weigh about the same as a year ago…so did I get stronger, significantly? Yes I did.

42

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I guarantee a great number of people on this site didn’t understand that their muscles ultimately NEED to get bigger for them to continually get stronger.[/quote]

You think that there are people here who don’t understand that the record in each weight class in powerlifting is greater than that of the weight class below?

Surely nobody is so lacking in deductive faculties as to think that strength gains, given a certain bodyweight, are limitless.

43

[quote]jarvis wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I guarantee a great number of people on this site didn’t understand that their muscles ultimately NEED to get bigger for them to continually get stronger.[/quote]

You think that there are people here who don’t understand that the record in each weight class in powerlifting is greater than that of the weight class below?

Surely nobody is so lacking in deductive faculties as to think that strength gains, given a certain bodyweight, are limitless.

[/quote]

Hey, they are the exact same guys who actually believed that pro bodybuilders with 21" arms are too weak to curl 35lbs dumbbells because some personal training author wrote it. They are likely the same type who believed that you should avoid bodybuilding because they can’t walk up stairs because Waterbury wrote it.

While it may be sad, there ARE people here in large numbers who are so uneducated on the basics that they believe every single hyperbolic word spoken by gurus…and without those basics no doubt believed that you could avoid working on size and simply keep getting stronger.

Hell, look at the poster above who used such a ridiculous example as someone going from 135lbs in a bench press to 225 without ever gaining a pound of muscle. While they may claim to be making a point, you would have to think this was possible or even likely to write it that way.

44

[quote]mmllcc wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]
In the trained population this would be more difficult to do but it would usually be done by increasing coordination in a movement, learning to do a certain movement more efficiently. If you take a guy that can bench 135 and then teach him how to do it more efficiently and then he can bench 225, he is stronger is he not? [/quote]

He would also be a very rare specimen to go from lifting 135 to 225 with NO gains in muscle mass at all. Has ANYONE here done that?[/quote]

Umm - of course not - I am just giving an exaggerated example to make my point. However, a year ago I could not pull myself but a few inches in a one arm pullup attempt and now I can pull up my entire body weight more than once. I have been training for years before I set upon the one-arm pullup goal, so I was not untrained when I started this. I weigh about the same as a year ago…so did I get stronger, significantly? Yes I did.[/quote]

Wait, since when is body weight alone a signifier for whether you actually gained any muscle mass? About the same weight is NOT “the same weight”. On top of that, why are you in this forum if you have made no progress in a year but to be able to do a one arm pull up “more than once”???

45

[quote]science wrote:
…if training and getting stronger in the “hypertrophy” range?

I don�´t get that.

You can get stronger via the cns or hypertrophy.

If you donÃ?´t train in the maximum strenght range but in the “hypertrophy range” AND get stronger-why shouldnÃ?´t someone get bigger too?

thats a point i never understood. Sure the answers break then down to eating enough-but when you get srtonger in the hyp range FROM WHERE COMES THE STRENGTH if you don�´t get bigger/stronger via sarcomer or sarcoplasmatic hypertrophy?

explenations?[/quote]

through the hypertrophical sarcomeric hypertrophy the cns then decides that since you’re training in the strength/hypertophy range that the sarcomeres will get huge because they like chocolate from outer space

46

All I want to know is where my sarcoplasm is located and what’s the best way to hypertrophy it? What’s the best isolation movement to do? Would site injecting AAS help at all? Does anyone pre-exhaust their sarcoplasm?

47

Well, really two options.

  1. The person got stronger, but this strength was all achieved through more efficiency. And the body will not necessarily have a reason to build muscle unless you are already using everything you currently have.

EX: You are 200lbs and start with a 150lb bench. You could very well get to a 250lb bench without having any necessity to increase size.

  1. The “hypertrophy range” is just theory. You may be hitting 8-12 reps, but your TUT might be <10 seconds.

If you can get where you can rep 404 on the bench press, you’ll be bigger and more muscular, regardless of how much you eat.

48

I just use Twinlab Sarcoplasm Fuel.

49

Why would you want to get bigger muscles when they will just turn into fat later?

:):slight_smile: <<< (for the serious types)

50

People don’t get bigger for one very simple reason. They don’t eat enough. In fact, the vast majority of “hard gainers” are just starved skinny people. “Hard gainers” do not exist. They are a skinny fucks who don’t eat. The human body cannot help but grow muscularly if you give it the right stimuli and enough calories, unless you have some disease or something.

51

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]mmllcc wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]
In the trained population this would be more difficult to do but it would usually be done by increasing coordination in a movement, learning to do a certain movement more efficiently. If you take a guy that can bench 135 and then teach him how to do it more efficiently and then he can bench 225, he is stronger is he not? [/quote]

He would also be a very rare specimen to go from lifting 135 to 225 with NO gains in muscle mass at all. Has ANYONE here done that?[/quote]

Umm - of course not - I am just giving an exaggerated example to make my point. However, a year ago I could not pull myself but a few inches in a one arm pullup attempt and now I can pull up my entire body weight more than once. I have been training for years before I set upon the one-arm pullup goal, so I was not untrained when I started this. I weigh about the same as a year ago…so did I get stronger, significantly? Yes I did.[/quote]

Wait, since when is body weight alone a signifier for whether you actually gained any muscle mass? About the same weight is NOT “the same weight”. On top of that, why are you in this forum if you have made no progress in a year but to be able to do a one arm pull up “more than once”???[/quote]

Yes - but though I may have gained some muscle in the past year - it has to be very little since I had very little fatness to trade for it; and my other major lifts and such have increased as well.

And to your other question - though it is a poor attempt to kill the messenger: It is because I have more than just one goal and I am patient. I have made progress - just not in gaining mass, and that intentionally, for now. When I meet certain strength gains I will add some more muscle (by eating more essentially, my caloric intake has been severely restricted the past year); rinse and repeat.

Look…I tried for months to get the one-arm. I wasn’t making any progress no matter what I did (slow double arm negatives, ballistic pull-ups, weighted pull-ups, one-arm negatives, kipping pull-ups, assisted one-arm pull-ups, etc.). So I tried to start to “feel” how my muscles were working…I sensed that my bicep was not contracting like it should. So I started doing curls. Lots of curls, all types of curls. I would also flex my bicep until it cramped (very painful) – all this to try and get a feel for how maximally contracted it could/should be. This started to fix the problem and within three months I could do a one arm.

52

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I just use Twinlab Sarcoplasm Fuel.[/quote]

Yeah, sure, but Jay Cutler used ‘Plasm-Tech’ to win back his Olympia title, so I’m banking on that!

S

53

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I just use Twinlab Sarcoplasm Fuel.[/quote]

Yeah, sure, but Jay Cutler used ‘Plasm-Tech’ to win back his Olympia title, so I’m banking on that!

S
[/quote]

I also hear that using an inflation needle attached to a basketball pump whilst hanging upside down can increase the size of your sarcoplasm.

54

As much as I respect your posts and obvious knowledge, its sad that you allow the IM hyperbole to spoil it at all, brother. This is partly responsible for a lot of impressionable characters on here stuck in the perpetual limbo between BBing and strength training (look at the kid who plans to avoid preacher curls till he is able to curl the 100’s or whatever).

How many guys DO you know who went from curling the 15’s as a late-teen/young adult to curling the 90’s?

Hell, someone who goes from curling the 5’s to curling the 200 pound DBs will experience a massive increase in muscle mass. As an advanced trainer yourself, you should avoid throwing out random strength numbers since there are people on here stupid enough to take it all literally.

And since this ain’t IM, someone who starts off at least curling the 35’s for reps has any fucking chance of ever curling the 90’s and above…

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Sure, it’s probably possible to go from curling the 15’s to curling the 35’s without a whole lot of increase in muscle mass for most people. But, I’ve never seen anyone who went from curling the 15’s to curling the 90’s who didn’t have to put on serious muscle in their upper arms.
[/quote]

55

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
As much as I respect your posts and obvious knowledge, its sad that you allow the IM hyperbole to spoil it at all, brother. This is partly responsible for a lot of impressionable characters on here stuck in the perpetual limbo between BBing and strength training (look at the kid who plans to avoid preacher curls till he is able to curl the 100’s or whatever).

How many guys DO you know who went from curling the 15’s as a late-teen/young adult to curling the 90’s?

Hell, someone who goes from curling the 5’s to curling the 200 pound DBs will experience a massive increase in muscle mass. As an advanced trainer yourself, you should avoid throwing out random strength numbers since there are people on here stupid enough to take it all literally.

And since this ain’t IM, someone who starts off at least curling the 35’s for reps has any fucking chance of ever curling the 90’s and above…

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Sure, it’s probably possible to go from curling the 15’s to curling the 35’s without a whole lot of increase in muscle mass for most people. But, I’ve never seen anyone who went from curling the 15’s to curling the 90’s who didn’t have to put on serious muscle in their upper arms.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with any of you except for the point of someone who started curling 35’s having any chance of curling the 90 or above.

When I started training the 35’s were about all I could do, maybe 25, anyways I curled 85 x 7 on alt dumbell curls last week, I have 85 x 5 on my YouTube channel from about a month or so ago and could definetly curl the 90s with solid form. I also go over 100 on pin wheel curls regularly.

Now maybe if you started training at 40 years old it would be difficult to get those weights up but I’m sure I’ll be curling a lot more than the 90’s one day on alt dumbell and it’s not unbelievable for someone who lifts religiously giving it there all for some years to work up to some respectable weights, although I will admit I do gain strength more easily than most.

56

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
As much as I respect your posts and obvious knowledge, its sad that you allow the IM hyperbole to spoil it at all, brother. This is partly responsible for a lot of impressionable characters on here stuck in the perpetual limbo between BBing and strength training (look at the kid who plans to avoid preacher curls till he is able to curl the 100’s or whatever).

How many guys DO you know who went from curling the 15’s as a late-teen/young adult to curling the 90’s?

Hell, someone who goes from curling the 5’s to curling the 200 pound DBs will experience a massive increase in muscle mass. As an advanced trainer yourself, you should avoid throwing out random strength numbers since there are people on here stupid enough to take it all literally.

And since this ain’t IM, someone who starts off at least curling the 35’s for reps has any fucking chance of ever curling the 90’s and above…

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Sure, it’s probably possible to go from curling the 15’s to curling the 35’s without a whole lot of increase in muscle mass for most people. But, I’ve never seen anyone who went from curling the 15’s to curling the 90’s who didn’t have to put on serious muscle in their upper arms.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with any of you except for the point of someone who started curling 35’s having any chance of curling the 90 or above.

When I started training the 35’s were about all I could do, maybe 25, anyways I curled 85 x 7 on alt dumbell curls last week, I have 85 x 5 on my YouTube channel from about a month or so ago and could definetly curl the 90s with solid form. I also go over 100 on pin wheel curls regularly.

Now maybe if you started training at 40 years old it would be difficult to get those weights up but I’m sure I’ll be curling a lot more than the 90’s one day on alt dumbell and it’s not unbelievable for someone who lifts religiously giving it there all for some years to work up to some respectable weights, although I will admit I do gain strength more easily than most. [/quote]

I was only able to curl the 30-35lbs dumbbells when I first started. I curled as heavy as 95lbs dumbbells before I quit doing a lot of alternate curls.
I weighed about 85lbs as a freshman in high school and worked my way up to 150lbs by graduation (and of course height was gained during this time as well).

You can not look at a TEENAGER and judge just how far they can go by how they look walking into a gym for the first time. There are those of us who have the ability to move FAR beyond where we started.

Other than that, I agree with the other things he wrote. Because of people throwing out random numbers, many of these newbs actually believe they can get incredibly stronger while staying at the same body weight.

That will NOT happen unless you are some genetic freak.

57

[quote]mmllcc wrote:

Umm - of course not - I am just giving an exaggerated example to make my point. However, a year ago I could not pull myself but a few inches in a one arm pullup attempt and now I can pull up my entire body weight more than once. I have been training for years before I set upon the one-arm pullup goal, so I was not untrained when I started this. I weigh about the same as a year ago…so did I get stronger, significantly? Yes I did.[/quote]

I’d be interested in your bicep and forearm size before and after your one-arm pull-up training. I bet they’ve increased in size.

I’ve added a 1/4" to biceps before while staying the same weight. I’d say that’s adding muscle.

58

OP. Your looking at it technically, but not the whole picture. Technically you can not get stronger without getting more muscle.
You CAN apply more force to a lift
You CAN appear to not have gained muscle
You CAN stay the same weight and lift more weight

but there are many things that go into those things. You have to remember a one rep max is not a signicant marker of strength. It’s more a marker of training and skill. When you ask a question about strength your going to get a million different answers based on the person your asking.

So you ask why would a person not get bigger? There’s a few reasons it could happen, you might want to check an anatomy book, and learn the different bodily processes. Then you can ask more specific questions that wouldn’t need a book to answer.

59

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Mahnager wrote:
sarcoplasmic growth… [/quote]

LOL. And the phenomenon with no proof continues to grow.

This is just like “roid rage”. It may not exist, but damn it, that won’t stop them from pretending it does until so many people believe it, it may as well be true.[/quote]

ROTFLMAO!

So you don’t think steroids affect your hormonal system, which in turn can cause “mood swings”, lets call it like that?

And I know that some authors like to exagerate stuff, but are you really denying that the volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in muscle cells can indeed increase with no increase in muscular strength?

I’m sorry, “professor”, but in that case, I’m afraid I have to question your knowledge.

60

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]spongechris wrote:

Bottomline:
You can easily get stronger without involving Hypertrophy.
Of course, in reality this is not easy to attain. (but sought after by many fighters, strength athletes and others)[/quote]

Overly simplistic and also a part of the confusion. You will only get stronger to a point before more size is needed to get even stronger. Someone who never gains any muscle size will not be able to continually get stronger over time like someone who gains muscle mass.[/quote]

Really? Only get stronger to a point before more size is needed to get even stronger?.. try telling that to every elite level olympic weightlifter. Tell Halil Mutlu, clean and jerking 167k at a bw of 56k, that you will only get stronger to a point. The dude looks like he’s never stepped into a gym and cant squat well over 3x his bodyweight. And he is just one of many. Maybe you’re oversimplistic or just plain lazy in your approach. Is there a limit to how strong you can get at a certain bw?.. perhaps… but is it as low as you are implying?.. hell no. I normally just check on this website from time to time, but seeing you try to preach on this post just made me laugh, and i had to step in.