If the drug problem is as said above and it is more similar to track and field for other countries then I agree with that as a part of the problem but certainly not the only one. As many have already alluded to, exposure is the biggest problem that I see. 90%+ of middle school students in the US don’t even know what the lifts are and most of our schools still operate on the assumption that weight training is dangerous for kids (hell I’ve heard professors at my University teaching that BS).
Powerlifting is an equally obscure sport, but we still do better participation wise with the slow lifts. How does it get fixed? Getting more people educated about coaching the lifts, at least teaching it in middle school “weight training” classes, having more gyms that are equipped for the quick lifts. There need to be way more youth programs involving the lifts than there are now. Start at the bottom, build a strong base, and the rest will take care of itself.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
In powerlifting you get put in a flight order based on the first attempt of your first event (squat in a full meet). You stay in that flight and in that order the rest of the meet regardless of weights used in following attempts or events.
[/quote]
This is not true. In PL every lifter in a flight will have an attempt before it resets back to the top, however the order can change based on the weight with the heavier weight going last.
For instance:
Lifter A opens with a 200kg squat
Lifter B opens with a 202.5kg squat
Lifter A will go first.
Lifter A successfully completes his attempt and submits 210 as his next attempt. Lifter B doesn’t successfully complete his attempt and decides to stay at the same weight.
In the 2nd round, lifter B will lift before lifter A. The order has changed based on the weight attempted.[/quote]
In what federation?
Every one I’ve ever been to keeps flights in the same order so everyone get the same rest between attempts. I’ve never seen flight order change.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
In powerlifting you get put in a flight order based on the first attempt of your first event (squat in a full meet). You stay in that flight and in that order the rest of the meet regardless of weights used in following attempts or events.
[/quote]
This is not true. In PL every lifter in a flight will have an attempt before it resets back to the top, however the order can change based on the weight with the heavier weight going last.
For instance:
Lifter A opens with a 200kg squat
Lifter B opens with a 202.5kg squat
Lifter A will go first.
Lifter A successfully completes his attempt and submits 210 as his next attempt. Lifter B doesn’t successfully complete his attempt and decides to stay at the same weight.
In the 2nd round, lifter B will lift before lifter A. The order has changed based on the weight attempted.[/quote]
In what federation?
Every one I’ve ever been to keeps flights in the same order so everyone get the same rest between attempts. I’ve never seen flight order change.[/quote]
IPF
Question if you guys could clarify for me… Do all of the record setting powerlifters use steroids? And what about the Olympic lifters?
Also on the topic, as many have said, the reason the US sucks at Olympic lifting is 100% due to exposure. Nobody knows anything about Olympic lifting and all of the big and strong dudes go straight to football. I am sure there are shit loads of linemen in the NFL right now that would be capable of competing at an Olympic level had they have been trained from a young age. Obviously i can’t even begin to prove that.
Something to think about. If you knew you had ridiculous size, strength, and speed in high school, are you going to play on the football team or go out of your way to find an olympic lifting gym? 1 has a huge potential payout, offers much more fame, gets way more bitches, the other doesn’t…
[quote]TD54 wrote:
Question if you guys could clarify for me… Do all of the record setting powerlifters use steroids? And what about the Olympic lifters?
[/quote]
[quote]TD54 wrote:
Question if you guys could clarify for me… Do all of the record setting powerlifters use steroids? And what about the Olympic lifters? [/quote]
I think it’s generally accepted that most, if not all, of the top international lifters are on something, if not many things.
[quote]TD54 wrote:
Also on the topic, as many have said, the reason the US sucks at Olympic lifting is 100% due to exposure. Nobody knows anything about Olympic lifting and all of the big and strong dudes go straight to football. I am sure there are shit loads of linemen in the NFL right now that would be capable of competing at an Olympic level had they have been trained from a young age. Obviously i can’t even begin to prove that. [/quote]
I’m not sure the guys who make it to the NFL would be the ones to hit that high level of competition in o-lifting (potentially too tall with the wrong leverages, long arms and whatnot). The guys you’d want are the ones who have that football dream but aren’t quite built for it, the shorter, stocky guys who can’t cut it at the higher levels of football, but once they realize that it’s almost always too late to make a serious run at international medals in our sport.
[quote]TD54 wrote:
Question if you guys could clarify for me… Do all of the record setting powerlifters use steroids? And what about the Olympic lifters? [/quote]
I think it’s generally accepted that most, if not all, of the top international lifters are on something, if not many things.
[quote]TD54 wrote:
Also on the topic, as many have said, the reason the US sucks at Olympic lifting is 100% due to exposure. Nobody knows anything about Olympic lifting and all of the big and strong dudes go straight to football. I am sure there are shit loads of linemen in the NFL right now that would be capable of competing at an Olympic level had they have been trained from a young age. Obviously i can’t even begin to prove that. [/quote]
I’m not sure the guys who make it to the NFL would be the ones to hit that high level of competition in o-lifting (potentially too tall with the wrong leverages, long arms and whatnot). The guys you’d want are the ones who have that football dream but aren’t quite built for it, the shorter, stocky guys who can’t cut it at the higher levels of football, but once they realize that it’s almost always too late to make a serious run at international medals in our sport.[/quote]
That’s a very good point. Potentially, the very best olympic lifters are probably the ones who did very well at D1 school but didn’t get drafted because of their size or short arms. Like quarterbacks in college, even if you are an incredible quarterback, you will be looked over if you are under 6ft tall. Similar things happen at all positions
[quote]TD54 wrote:
Question if you guys could clarify for me… Do all of the record setting powerlifters use steroids? And what about the Olympic lifters?
Also on the topic, as many have said, the reason the US sucks at Olympic lifting is 100% due to exposure. Nobody knows anything about Olympic lifting and all of the big and strong dudes go straight to football. I am sure there are shit loads of linemen in the NFL right now that would be capable of competing at an Olympic level had they have been trained from a young age. Obviously i can’t even begin to prove that.
Something to think about. If you knew you had ridiculous size, strength, and speed in high school, are you going to play on the football team or go out of your way to find an olympic lifting gym? 1 has a huge potential payout, offers much more fame, gets way more bitches, the other doesn’t…[/quote]
Powerlifting has about 1,000,000 different federations. Some are drug tested and some aren’t. The record setters for the non-tested ones are almost certainly using. The record setters in the major tested ones possibly are (just like any other sport, there will be cheaters). Some minor federations almost certainly have “record holders” who aren’t using. I put record holders in quotes because often the records are more by default than by beign world-class lifts.
I am in college and have a weight lifting coach in as my gym teacher for lifting. He is absolutely fucking crazy about form, he also requires certain grips for different lifts. He wont let me use a fucking mixed grip for deads under 405… What if I want to do 375x5 with a mixed grip? Nope, not allowed. Makes it very difficult to lift in class. Good thing he likes me since Im the only guy in a class of 40 that can put up more than 200 on bench and I put up 315 for reps all the time.
[quote]TD54 wrote:
Are the dudes thst hold the deadlift squat and bench records in drug tested federations? i would imagine not?[/quote]
Every federation has their own records. Even without the drug effects, it would be very tough to compare them. There are numerous other differences that can greatly affect the amount lifted:
Thickness of gear allowed (or if gear is even allowed)
Squat depth
Monolift vs. walking out
Pause vs. no pause in the bench press
feet flat on the floor vs. on your toes in the bench press
For example, a woman that competed against my wife squatted > 500 lbs. in a multi-ply federation with a monolift. Against my wife, where she could only use single ply gear, had to walk out the squat and go deeper she squatted 314. Probably some of the difference is due to her unfamiliarity with the changes, but still the difference is very significant.
In general, the deadlift is really the only lift that isn’t greatly affected by the gear and rules (although still can be somewhat affected). That’s the lift I tend to look at when comparing… but it still isn’t apples to apples.
[quote]TD54 wrote:
Are the dudes thst hold the deadlift squat and bench records in drug tested federations? i would imagine not?[/quote]
Every federation has their own records. Even without the drug effects, it would be very tough to compare them. There are numerous other differences that can greatly affect the amount lifted:
Thickness of gear allowed (or if gear is even allowed)
Squat depth
Monolift vs. walking out
Pause vs. no pause in the bench press
feet flat on the floor vs. on your toes in the bench press
For example, a woman that competed against my wife squatted > 500 lbs. in a multi-ply federation with a monolift. Against my wife, where she could only use single ply gear, had to walk out the squat and go deeper she squatted 314. Probably some of the difference is due to her unfamiliarity with the changes, but still the difference is very significant.
In general, the deadlift is really the only lift that isn’t greatly affected by the gear and rules (although still can be somewhat affected). That’s the lift I tend to look at when comparing… but it still isn’t apples to apples.[/quote]
dead on. this is why i have no interest in following powerlifting anymore. too many variables/feds/rules etc.
i keep a casual eye on the deadlift numbers…for reasons you have already stated…but it wont be long before some sort of super deadlift suit is developed that skews those numbers too far to be of any interest to me as well.
[quote]TD54 wrote:
Are the dudes thst hold the deadlift squat and bench records in drug tested federations? i would imagine not?[/quote]
Every federation has their own records. Even without the drug effects, it would be very tough to compare them. There are numerous other differences that can greatly affect the amount lifted:
Thickness of gear allowed (or if gear is even allowed)
Squat depth
Monolift vs. walking out
Pause vs. no pause in the bench press
feet flat on the floor vs. on your toes in the bench press
For example, a woman that competed against my wife squatted > 500 lbs. in a multi-ply federation with a monolift. Against my wife, where she could only use single ply gear, had to walk out the squat and go deeper she squatted 314. Probably some of the difference is due to her unfamiliarity with the changes, but still the difference is very significant.
In general, the deadlift is really the only lift that isn’t greatly affected by the gear and rules (although still can be somewhat affected). That’s the lift I tend to look at when comparing… but it still isn’t apples to apples.[/quote]
dead on. this is why i have no interest in following powerlifting anymore. too many variables/feds/rules etc.
i keep a casual eye on the deadlift numbers…for reasons you have already stated…but it wont be long before some sort of super deadlift suit is developed that skews those numbers too far to be of any interest to me as well.
[/quote]
this makes me sad. There is a resurgence in raw lifting. A lot of people feel the same way about Pling.
Interesting discussion, but I think that it’s more because of what Coach McCauley said - lack of good coaching and programs. While it is true that the strongest guys go into football, baseball, etc., most of these guys are also tall, generally over 6’, so would probably only lift in the 105+ class, maybe the 105 if they were strict about dieting. Most of the guys in the lighter classes are going to be under 6’, sometimes way under in the case of the lightest class.
So, say you have a kid, around 5’9" and around 190 lbs. and very strong, who played linebacker at a smallish high school. He may have even been a stand out player. Unfortunately, this kid has little chance of playing at the college level unless it’s at a non-Div I school, and zero chance of making it to the pros simply because he is too small. However, this kid would be perfect as an 85 kg. lifter assuming he had good technique. My question is, what happens to these strong, athletic, but “too small” kids? It seems they just disappear after their high school careers, and if they’re lucky a stint at a Div III college, are over. Interestingly, we have a guy at our OL club who fits this exact profile. He’s around 5’9" and played HS football. Fortunately, he was smart enough to realize that his football days were over after high school. He is now in college and has taken up OL, and he is a very good lifter.
We can’t all be 6’3" and 250 lbs. The U.S. needs to find a way to channel the “too small for football” kids into a quality OL program.
I’ll say it again… Olympic lifting is just unknown in America. Look at all these Russian or Chinese vids and all that, and you see entire gymnasiums devoted to Olympic lifting with so many god damn people. That is reason #1 right there.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
I’ll say it again… Olympic lifting is just unknown in America. Look at all these Russian or Chinese vids and all that, and you see entire gymnasiums devoted to Olympic lifting with so many god damn people. That is reason #1 right there.[/quote]
But we do well in a lot of sports that aren’t popular here.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
I’ll say it again… Olympic lifting is just unknown in America. Look at all these Russian or Chinese vids and all that, and you see entire gymnasiums devoted to Olympic lifting with so many god damn people. That is reason #1 right there.[/quote]
Very good point, I would also add that Russian and Chinese are proud of their lifters, in Kazan even the B-groups had over 1000 people watching the lifters and the winners are in tv right after the lifting!
[quote]Ajax wrote:
The argument that US lifters’ main shortcoming is a sheer lack of strength, and if they trained liked powerlifters they would be more successful does not convince me. In particular, the author’s assertion that US lifters spend too much time training the competitive lifts and that this accounts for their relatively poor international performance is logically weak. The fact is that the best olympic programs around the world focus on the competitive lifts; that is not a peculiarity of the American program.
[/quote]
So our team doesn’t focus more on technique than other successful countries?
Any answer as to why we seem to have fallen from grace? What is different?
Is it just a lack of national interest? Top athletes go into other sports?[/quote]
I mean dont our top athletes go into football? if our best football players focused on OLY lifting we would own these shit hole countries. Fuck the eastern block and china.