Why Saying that Ideas of a Master Race is Stupid

Off Topic
221

[quote]ultralars wrote:

[quote]Cheeky_Kea wrote:
The O.P’s more general point that the divide between “the good guys” and “the bad guys” may not be black and white is so commonplace and obvious as to have become a hackneyed cliche used in popular culture and discussion and the subject of many an entralling movie blockbuster.

It was perhaps not stated in the best fashion and the way it is worded is bound to raise a few hackles.

Ie. Germany coming off in a worst light than deserved etc, is just the wrong emphasis. There is no “better light” for the systematic genocide of millions.

However, arguing that the “good guys” aren’t always squeaky clean is entirely sound and in alot of cases is historicaly, demonstrably true.

The evil that men do isn’t the singular provenance of the figures that history demonises.

Still relevant but on a tangent.
It has been noted many times that the language of the Nazi propaganda machine wass worded to dehumanise the Jewish people into abstracts which ultimately facilitates the ease of treating them inhumanely.

Thus they were often referred to as some kind of “virus” that needed to be “eradicated” or the Jewish “problem” that needed to be “solved” or some kind of infection of the German people that needed to be “treated”.

So much easier for the Conscience to eradicate a malignant virus than slaughter millions of innocent people, so much easier to merely, innocuously solve a problem.

To quote Voltaire…“Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit atrocities”.

Serious post over…I return you to your normal lolzfest channel.

[/quote]

If you count only by human deaths, the mognethau plan technically was worse than the holocaust, as 9 million+ died, 1,2 of which died in work camps. while the holocaust killed 6 million, in which all died in work camps or death camps.

http://www.serendipity.li/hr/bacque01.htm
[/quote]

True, true. If you count only by human deaths, the mognethau plan technically was worse than the holocaust. No question about it and that’s not including the mindless slaughter of thousands of small cute fluffy mammals which pushes the death toll into double figures. The Nazis were far more sophisticated and merciful in their methods, genetically engineering a Feline Fuhrer (Kitler) that controlled the cuddly population. Probably inspired by Chairman’s Mao’s furry counterpart Chaircat Miaow. Excellent retort. Couldn’t have put it better myself.

222

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
I’d murder a Viking, rape his wife, then salt his fields for good measure, all while tearing my way across his country and conquering all of his people.[/quote]

I really like this. Does this translate into a short latin phrase than I can have tattooed across my back? LOL

223

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Why are you arguing with a 16 year old?[/quote]

That’s not fair. We’re discussing history. Until a professor of history shows up, I think it’s fair to say that no one here has any more intellectual authority than this kid if he is inclined to do his research. Agree?

224

[quote]ultralars wrote:

[quote]Cheeky_Kea wrote:
The O.P’s more general point that the divide between “the good guys” and “the bad guys” may not be black and white is so commonplace and obvious as to have become a hackneyed cliche used in popular culture and discussion and the subject of many an entralling movie blockbuster.

It was perhaps not stated in the best fashion and the way it is worded is bound to raise a few hackles.

Ie. Germany coming off in a worst light than deserved etc, is just the wrong emphasis. There is no “better light” for the systematic genocide of millions.

However, arguing that the “good guys” aren’t always squeaky clean is entirely sound and in alot of cases is historicaly, demonstrably true.

The evil that men do isn’t the singular provenance of the figures that history demonises.

Still relevant but on a tangent.
It has been noted many times that the language of the Nazi propaganda machine wass worded to dehumanise the Jewish people into abstracts which ultimately facilitates the ease of treating them inhumanely.

Thus they were often referred to as some kind of “virus” that needed to be “eradicated” or the Jewish “problem” that needed to be “solved” or some kind of infection of the German people that needed to be “treated”.

So much easier for the Conscience to eradicate a malignant virus than slaughter millions of innocent people, so much easier to merely, innocuously solve a problem.

To quote Voltaire…“Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit atrocities”.

Serious post over…I return you to your normal lolzfest channel.

[/quote]

If you count only by human deaths, the mognethau plan technically was worse than the holocaust, as 9 million+ died, 1,2 of which died in work camps. while the holocaust killed 6 million, in which all died in work camps or death camps.

http://www.serendipity.li/hr/bacque01.htm
[/quote]

O.K so a cursory 10 min glance around the net reveals that the M plan was never fully implemented and 9 million is probably hyperbole.

"While important elements of the Plan, including the subtle re-education of the Germans by their own refugees and the dismantling of German heavy

industry to aid British exports, were indeed put into effect, in the directive 1067 which the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff finally issued to Eisenhower, the main parts of the Morgenthau Plan, including orders to liquidate entire classes of suspected Nazi war criminals upon simple identification, and to leave the German nation to ‘stew in its own juice,’ were not formally implemented.

The Morgenthau Plan would have led to the death by starvation and pestilence of ten million Germans in the first two years after the war, in addition to the one million who had been killed in the saturation bombing and the three million killed in the enforced expulsion from Germany’s eastern territories".

edit

Also you seem to be fixated on the figure of 6 million which is only the estimate for the jews killed during the holocaust if this is extended to the other victims of systematic genocide then the figure is closer to 17 million made up of (amongst others)

1.5 mil romanian gypsies, 3 mil soviet p.o.ws, 2 mil ethnic poles, 200,00 handicapped people, 8.2 mil soviet civillians, (also ukranians and belarusians) 350,00 ethnic serbs, as well as a collection of gays, blacks, roman ctholic clergy, jehovas witnesses, free masons etc etc.

225

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Why are you arguing with a 16 year old?[/quote]

That’s not fair. We’re discussing history. Until a professor of history shows up, I think it’s fair to say that no one here has any more intellectual authority than this kid if he is inclined to do his research. Agree?[/quote]

I think it is firmly established now, that he is in no way, shape or form so inclined.

226

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Why are you arguing with a 16 year old?[/quote]

That’s not fair. We’re discussing history. Until a professor of history shows up, I think it’s fair to say that no one here has any more intellectual authority than this kid if he is inclined to do his research. Agree?[/quote]

I’m pretty sure Ultralars has demonstrated a command of history far beyond his ears in this thread, so I think he qualifies for at least an honorary professorship.

Naturally he has my full support.

227

I’m arguing with a 16 year old because… well he is probably provoking more thought than most other’s posts… That’s it - oh but I don’t think he is any less qualified to discuss this subject based on age, that’s silly.

228

[quote]Cheeky_Kea wrote:

O.K so a cursory 10 min glance around the net reveals that the M plan was never fully implemented and 9 million is probably hyperbole.

Also you seem to be fixated on the figure of 6 million which is only the estimate for the jews killed during the holocaust if this is extended to the other victims of systematic genocide then the figure is closer to 17 million made up of (amongst others)

[/quote]

You do realize you can “glance” around the net and find those that would dispute the holocaust, including the number of victims :slight_smile: Are there not those that would claim the number of holocaust victims “hyperbole”? I’m just sayin’…

229

BG:

The principles of forced sterilization, euthanasia and eugenics violate the natural rights of “life, liberty, property, and happiness”. Most modern governments, Communist China and Taliban’s Afghanistan exlcuded, are founded on those principles. We may disagree on the wisdom of such liberty and happiness, but to force someone to act against his will, is to violate his liberty.

ultralars:

The Nazi “religion” was fabricated out of Hitler’s mind. He himself was an avowed atheist, just like Maximillien Robespierre. Just like Robespierre, Hitler realized that atheism as a national religion wasn’t going to work. So, he created a religion to fill the void. Hitler subscribed to Nietzsche’s concept of a “Superman”, the man who evolves from man and rises above social conventions to create his own morals. In fact, he was so enamored of Nietzche, that he gave Mussolini a collection of the author’s books. Also, quotes from Nietzche’s works were plastered on the walls of the concentration camps and death camps.

230

[quote]defenderofTruth wrote:
BG:

The principles of forced sterilization, euthanasia and eugenics violate the natural rights of “life, liberty, property, and happiness”. Most modern governments, Communist China and Taliban’s Afghanistan exlcuded, are founded on those principles. We may disagree on the wisdom of such liberty and happiness, but to force someone to act against his will, is to violate his liberty.

[/quote]

You do realize I understand the above don’t you? :slight_smile:

231

[quote]defenderofTruth wrote:
BG:

The principles of forced sterilization, euthanasia and eugenics violate the natural rights of “life, liberty, property, and happiness”. Most modern governments, Communist China and Taliban’s Afghanistan exlcuded, are founded on those principles. We may disagree on the wisdom of such liberty and happiness, but to force someone to act against his will, is to violate his liberty.

ultralars:

The Nazi “religion” was fabricated out of Hitler’s mind. He himself was an avowed atheist, just like Maximillien Robespierre. Just like Robespierre, Hitler realized that atheism as a national religion wasn’t going to work. So, he created a religion to fill the void. Hitler subscribed to Nietzsche’s concept of a “Superman”, the man who evolves from man and rises above social conventions to create his own morals. In fact, he was so enamored of Nietzche, that he gave Mussolini a collection of the author’s books. Also, quotes from Nietzche’s works were plastered on the walls of the concentration camps and death camps.[/quote]

It’s not quite that simple.
Nazi movement has some of it’s roots in the mystic theories of the 19th century and it’s lineage going back to occult societies such as Germanenorden and Thule Society is quite evident.
In the spirit of this topic I must add that occultism was pretty big in the early 1900s outside of Germany as well.
No other state in the modern era though has had anything similar to Ahnenerbe - basically an occult wing of the SS.

232

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Cheeky_Kea wrote:

O.K so a cursory 10 min glance around the net reveals that the M plan was never fully implemented and 9 million is probably hyperbole.

Also you seem to be fixated on the figure of 6 million which is only the estimate for the jews killed during the holocaust if this is extended to the other victims of systematic genocide then the figure is closer to 17 million made up of (amongst others)

[/quote]

You do realize you can “glance” around the net and find those that would dispute the holocaust, including the number of victims :slight_smile: Are there not those that would claim the number of holocaust victims “hyperbole”? I’m just sayin’…[/quote]

Yes I do realise…I used a 10 min cursory “glance” of the kind of info you can garner without even doing any indepth research to show that you should not just rely on one or two sources for your info and that for evrybody who grabs stats, surveys, citations etc off the net there are probably an equal number refuting your point with equaly valid evidence.

As for the number of victims, I fully realise that all death stats for the whole of ww2–not just the holocaust-- are approximate.
I think the dead give away in my post was my use of the words “estimate” and “probably”.

The people you are referring to in the first instance who dispute the holocaust are commonly called holocaust deniers.
The methodologies of Holocaust deniers can be criticized as based on a predetermined conclusion that ignores extensive historical evidence to the contrary.

Most Holocaust denial claims imply, or openly state, that the Holocaust is a hoax arising out of a deliberate Jewish conspiracy to advance the interest of Jews at the expense of other peoples. For this reason, Holocaust denial is generally considered to be antisemitic and is the exact attitude the started all this shit in the first place.

The second instance is a far cry from those who actually deny it even happened.
It never varies as much as the extra 5 million or so that seem to get tagged onto the end of the Morgenthau stats though…unless the people involved have very a dubious agenda that flies in the face of historical fact.

233

BG, why shouldn’t retards have babies? In a crisis the retards will die anyway, and they will likely not detract from your ability to sustain your biological needs. So, other than someone selfishly valuing luxury over life, why can’t retards have babies?

234

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
I’m 100% Mongol. I’d murder a Viking, rape his wife, then salt his fields for good measure, all while tearing my way across his country and conquering all of his people.[/quote]

I’m white. I pretty much run the fuckin world.

problem?

235

[quote]ReignIB wrote:

[quote]defenderofTruth wrote:
BG:

The principles of forced sterilization, euthanasia and eugenics violate the natural rights of “life, liberty, property, and happiness”. Most modern governments, Communist China and Taliban’s Afghanistan exlcuded, are founded on those principles. We may disagree on the wisdom of such liberty and happiness, but to force someone to act against his will, is to violate his liberty.

ultralars:

The Nazi “religion” was fabricated out of Hitler’s mind. He himself was an avowed atheist, just like Maximillien Robespierre. Just like Robespierre, Hitler realized that atheism as a national religion wasn’t going to work. So, he created a religion to fill the void. Hitler subscribed to Nietzsche’s concept of a “Superman”, the man who evolves from man and rises above social conventions to create his own morals. In fact, he was so enamored of Nietzche, that he gave Mussolini a collection of the author’s books. Also, quotes from Nietzche’s works were plastered on the walls of the concentration camps and death camps.[/quote]

It’s not quite that simple.
Nazi movement has some of it’s roots in the mystic theories of the 19th century and it’s lineage going back to occult societies such as Germanenorden and Thule Society is quite evident.
In the spirit of this topic I must add that occultism was pretty big in the early 1900s outside of Germany as well.
No other state in the modern era though has had anything similar to Ahnenerbe - basically an occult wing of the SS.

[/quote]

Yes it was a highly slective interpretation of Nietzche’s ideas to suit Hitler’s own fucked up view.

The true ubermencsh is neither slave nor master.

The third reich seems to have been a misguided attempt to “immanentize the eschaton”.

Yes gnostics, theosophists and mystics were rife around the 19th century.

236

[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
I’m 100% Mongol. I’d murder a Viking, rape his wife, then salt his fields for good measure, all while tearing my way across his country and conquering all of his people.[/quote]

I’m white. I pretty much run the fuckin world.

problem?

STOP! meme time!

237

[quote]Kanada wrote:
BG, why shouldn’t retards have babies? In a crisis the retards will die anyway, and they will likely not detract from your ability to sustain your biological needs. So, other than someone selfishly valuing luxury over life, why can’t retards have babies?[/quote]

You’re slow pitching to me now? This is too easy. I’ll check swing and wait for you to throw a fast ball. This is way too easy. Are you sure you wouldn’t rather ask me a question other than “why shouldn’t retards have babies”? Think carefully!

238

its more a criticism of your personal morality than an attempt to show how you disrespect the people loving those retards.

239

[quote]defenderofTruth wrote:

The Nazi “religion” was fabricated out of Hitler’s mind. He himself was an avowed atheist, just like Maximillien Robespierre. Just like Robespierre, Hitler realized that atheism as a national religion wasn’t going to work. So, he created a religion to fill the void. Hitler subscribed to Nietzsche’s concept of a “Superman”, the man who evolves from man and rises above social conventions to create his own morals. In fact, he was so enamored of Nietzche, that he gave Mussolini a collection of the author’s books. Also, quotes from Nietzche’s works were plastered on the walls of the concentration camps and death camps.[/quote]
Wow, stop basing your theories on nothing! Adolf hitler did not just make up what he belived in, he truely belived in it. it’s the ultimate combination of science and religion. the nazism " religion" if one can call it that, goes like this: You don’t belive in a god, you belive in races, which come and go. and apparantly there has been more than the one existing atm. The one existing right now they called the aryan, which had physic powers. But like past races, the aryan has apparantly interbred with " beasts " which are the jews, slavs, etc. the result was that they lost their power and developed into a lesser version of themselfs. Hitler tought that the one and only solution to this problem, was to kill all " beasts " and enforce programs which makes pure aryans breed with eachother, before the aryan man is destroyed completely. silly yes, but at that time this made sense to many people all over the world.

tbg, you see what kind of people i have been discussing with? thank god you came in like a wind of common sense

240

[quote]defenderofTruth wrote:
Hitler subscribed to Nietzsche’s concept of a “Superman”, the man who evolves from man and rises above social conventions to create his own morals. In fact, he was so enamored of Nietzche, that he gave Mussolini a collection of the author’s books. Also, quotes from Nietzche’s works were plastered on the walls of the concentration camps and death camps.
[/quote]

LOL

hitler didnt have a clue what Nietzsche actually wrote and argued for.

Nietzsche’s pathetic nazi cock sucking sister forged most of the Will to Power, then interpreted Nietzsche’s writings as pro nazi, ignoring the fact that Nietzsche was not an anti semite and was an opponent of mass political movements, seeing as how that went completely against his concept of the OVERMAN.

/serious topic, out before trollin resumes