Why Rack Chins?

Shadowzz4 · August 21, 2009, 7:56pm

Well if you think of the lats function, this more closely follows that path. Lats pull the humerus down and back, exactly the position most people assume for a pronated lat pulldown. The only difference with this is that is a closed chain exercise, so whatever benefit that gives is the difference between the two.

Try holding your torso at the angle in the video, while doing a standard pullup. Its not really possible… so the rack chins are quite a bit different than normal. Think of not being able to lean back at all on a lat pulldown. That would mimic a regular pullup. I imagine you could tweak your position to the point where you could make it a slightly better for the lats…

Shadowzz4 · August 21, 2009, 8:01pm

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
kylec72 wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
SmallToBig wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?

I didn’t have my feet higher than the bar that I was hanging from. I’ll fix that next time.

How is that even possible ???

Your biceps ??

You sure your doing the exercise everyone else is doing ? How are your lats not doing the work?

^That’s what you did yes ?

Yup, that’s exactly what I did. 3 sets for 6 a piece with around 30 lbs. in my lap. Lats weren’t sore the day after, nor today. Doesn’t even feel like they were worked. My biceps however are as sore as they’ve been this year.

Like plateau mentioned, you may want to try a higher rep range, say, 15 lbs for 12 reps to minimize the biceps in the movement.

Yup. Not only that but it sounds like you (Accipiter) need to work on your form/mind muscle connection. Are you pulling with your elbows, contracting your lats to pull yourself up? Or just trying to pull yourself up to the bar by whatever means necessary? Sounds to me like you are pulling primarily with your arm flexors.

Also, did you use straps? That can assist even more in removing the biceps/forearms from the movement. Try to think of your hands simply as hooks attaching you to the bar and again, pull from your elbows. Forget the added weight for now and just rep out, making sure to pull with your lats/keep good form.[/quote]

You have to be able to tell when you are doing an exercise well, or whether you are just completing a movement such as going from a full hang to putting your chin over the bar.

I guarantee your shoulders are rolling forward significantly when you add weight is this right? If your shoulders are rolling forward at the top of a pull or row, your either not concentrating on your form, using too heavy a weight, or have soft tissue problems. Infraspinatus issues can make it nearly impossible to get into the lats as they will not allow the humerus to reach the internally rotated position the lats pull best from.

SwissArmyTriplet · August 21, 2009, 9:01pm

Interesting discussion. I can’t wait to try these later today.

MytchBucanan · August 22, 2009, 1:36am

I did these for the first time today. I loved them! I can’t wait for next back day.

Ricochet · September 4, 2009, 2:29pm

Concur with Sentoguy… his advice is sound. Touch that bar to at least below your neckline(the lower the better) when at the top of the movement and hold it there for two-three seconds on every single rep… focusing on squeezing not your hands as Sento suggested but rather your lats. A helpful technique check is when at the top of the movement pay attention to what your elbows are doing. Are they aiming forward? Can you pull them back further thus activating your scapulas and all the back goodies? You may have to correct your position on every rep until your body learns it correctly… take the time to do this.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Yup. Not only that but it sounds like you (Accipiter) need to work on your form/mind muscle connection. Are you pulling with your elbows, contracting your lats to pull yourself up? Or just trying to pull yourself up to the bar by whatever means necessary? Sounds to me like you are pulling primarily with your arm flexors.

Also, did you use straps? That can assist even more in removing the biceps/forearms from the movement. Try to think of your hands simply as hooks attaching you to the bar and again, pull from your elbows. Forget the added weight for now and just rep out, making sure to pull with your lats/keep good form.[/quote]

Cephalic_Carnage · August 25, 2009, 6:09am

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?

I didn’t have my feet higher than the bar that I was hanging from. I’ll fix that next time. [/quote]

You did something very wrong

Vejne · August 25, 2009, 10:44am

Yesterday I did them instead of regular chins. Though unfortunately my torso was somewhere between horizontal and vertical initially, I fixed that for the next two sets.

Honestly the best part of the excersise was the “hang”. It stretched my lats that I felt like someone is tearing my back with two hooks into the opposite direction.

Next time I’ll probably be able to do them on a regular squat rack or smith machine.

Cephalic_Carnage · August 25, 2009, 10:45am

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
SmallToBig wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?

I didn’t have my feet higher than the bar that I was hanging from. I’ll fix that next time.

How is that even possible ???

Your biceps ??

You sure your doing the exercise everyone else is doing ? How are your lats not doing the work?

^That’s what you did yes ?

Yup, that’s exactly what I did. 3 sets for 6 a piece with around 30 lbs. in my lap. Lats weren’t sore the day after, nor today. Doesn’t even feel like they were worked. My biceps however are as sore as they’ve been this year.

Anyone notice that in the videos the people don’t have their feet up higher than the bar they’re hanging from (per the advice from others here). [/quote]

Why the heck are you doing 3x6 on rack chins (or any width exercise, for the matter) ?

Almost anyone will turn a heavy pullup or row into a bicep/brachialis exercise.

We do rack chins 15-30rest-paused in DC. (3 failure points, 12-15 or even 20 deep breaths in-between and not hanging onto the rack while resting, though you may stay strapped in)

If that doesn’t help, then you don’t know how to make your lats work… That’d make things a lot more complicated.

BONEZ217 · August 25, 2009, 6:59pm

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
SmallToBig wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?

I didn’t have my feet higher than the bar that I was hanging from. I’ll fix that next time.

How is that even possible ???

Your biceps ??

You sure your doing the exercise everyone else is doing ? How are your lats not doing the work?

^That’s what you did yes ?

Yup, that’s exactly what I did. 3 sets for 6 a piece with around 30 lbs. in my lap. Lats weren’t sore the day after, nor today. Doesn’t even feel like they were worked. My biceps however are as sore as they’ve been this year.

Anyone notice that in the videos the people don’t have their feet up higher than the bar they’re hanging from (per the advice from others here). [/quote]

I think you are just a spaz when it comes to anything that involves lifting weights.

AccipiterQ · August 27, 2009, 11:30pm

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
SmallToBig wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?

I didn’t have my feet higher than the bar that I was hanging from. I’ll fix that next time.

How is that even possible ???

Your biceps ??

You sure your doing the exercise everyone else is doing ? How are your lats not doing the work?

^That’s what you did yes ?

Yup, that’s exactly what I did. 3 sets for 6 a piece with around 30 lbs. in my lap. Lats weren’t sore the day after, nor today. Doesn’t even feel like they were worked. My biceps however are as sore as they’ve been this year.

Anyone notice that in the videos the people don’t have their feet up higher than the bar they’re hanging from (per the advice from others here).

Why the heck are you doing 3x6 on rack chins (or any width exercise, for the matter) ?

Almost anyone will turn a heavy pullup or row into a bicep/brachialis exercise.

We do rack chins 15-30rest-paused in DC. (3 failure points, 12-15 or even 20 deep breaths in-between and not hanging onto the rack while resting, though you may stay strapped in)

If that doesn’t help, then you don’t know how to make your lats work… That’d make things a lot more complicated.
[/quote]

I tried them unweighted yesterday. Same thing. In fact my biceps were getting destroyed so bad they actually cramped up. That’s what stopped me during the set, it wasn’t my lats at all, they weren’t even flared when I was pulling myself up. I thought of my arms as hooks, but that didn’t seem to matter any. Maybe I should post a video after I do them again?

JoabSonOfZeruiah · August 28, 2009, 2:04am

do you know how to feel your lats? if not a dual pulley lat machine is good way to learn.

Sentoguy · August 28, 2009, 3:38am

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
SmallToBig wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?

I didn’t have my feet higher than the bar that I was hanging from. I’ll fix that next time.

How is that even possible ???

Your biceps ??

You sure your doing the exercise everyone else is doing ? How are your lats not doing the work?

^That’s what you did yes ?

Yup, that’s exactly what I did. 3 sets for 6 a piece with around 30 lbs. in my lap. Lats weren’t sore the day after, nor today. Doesn’t even feel like they were worked. My biceps however are as sore as they’ve been this year.

Anyone notice that in the videos the people don’t have their feet up higher than the bar they’re hanging from (per the advice from others here).

Why the heck are you doing 3x6 on rack chins (or any width exercise, for the matter) ?

Almost anyone will turn a heavy pullup or row into a bicep/brachialis exercise.

We do rack chins 15-30rest-paused in DC. (3 failure points, 12-15 or even 20 deep breaths in-between and not hanging onto the rack while resting, though you may stay strapped in)

If that doesn’t help, then you don’t know how to make your lats work… That’d make things a lot more complicated.

I tried them unweighted yesterday. Same thing. In fact my biceps were getting destroyed so bad they actually cramped up. That’s what stopped me during the set, it wasn’t my lats at all, they weren’t even flared when I was pulling myself up. I thought of my arms as hooks, but that didn’t seem to matter any. Maybe I should post a video after I do them again? [/quote]

That would probably help. Should at least let us know whether you are doing the exercise right or not.

Can I ask if you feel your lats working while doing regular pull-ups or lat pulldowns? In other words, is it this specific exercise, or do you just have horrible lat mind muscle connection?

ekrim · August 28, 2009, 4:20am

I’d imagine the stretch comes from not only the wide grip, but your feet being raised. Since the lats have insertions in the lower body, this leads to the spine being more rounded than a pullup and the hips more tucked.

If you tried to do this with a pullup your hip flexors and abs would have to work hard to keep the body in this position, which would take away from your lat’s performance. In the rack chin, the bench holds your feet in the position which delivers that stretch

AccipiterQ · September 4, 2009, 3:04am

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
SmallToBig wrote:
AccipiterQ wrote:
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?