[quote]DJS wrote:
Therizza wrote:
How tall is that guy? Anybody know? I’m trying to see how wide i should be going. I see his hands are alllllllll the way out as far as they can go. Not sure if I should mimick that if he is 6’ 5 as I am 5’10. [/quote]
He’s 5’9 boss.
is there a way to get these done w/o a partner placing the weight in your lap and then making sure it stays there?
[quote]dankid wrote:
Ive never done these, but based on the videos I have a little theory as to why they are better than pullups and maybe even pulldowns.
It looks as if there is a lot less stabalization required doing these, so you can really hammer away at the big muscles. In a regular pullup you have to be really careful not to start swinging and you use a lot of stabalizers to accomplish this. This takes away from the main point of hitting the lats, traps, romboids, etc. Also the angle is definately a bit different since the weight is more in front of the bar. These would be more like a compbination of a BW row and a pullup, which means your working a combination of the vertical and horizontal movement. Maybe, most people are stronger at this mid angle than a vertical angle and thus can lift more weight.
Looks like a sweet exercise though, with easy gradual progressions. I’ll be trying this sometime soon.[/quote]
You also completely remove any ability to “hitch” or use lumbar action to get initial momentum.
[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
DJS wrote:
Therizza wrote:
How tall is that guy? Anybody know? I’m trying to see how wide i should be going. I see his hands are alllllllll the way out as far as they can go. Not sure if I should mimick that if he is 6’ 5 as I am 5’10.
He’s 5’9 boss.
[/quote]
Great. Thanks! I guess I’ll be going all the way out then.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
is there a way to get these done w/o a partner placing the weight in your lap and then making sure it stays there?[/quote]
Wear a backpack on your front filled with weights maybe?
This dude manages to do it without a partner…
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
is there a way to get these done w/o a partner placing the weight in your lap and then making sure it stays there?[/quote]
some quotes from various members over at im…
“You can use a smith machine, putting the bar on the 3rd/4th notch from the bottom. Grab an adjustable incline bench, which will allow you to put your feet a little higher than the bar (or at least even with). Grab a dumbbell or plate with the desire weight, put on your lap, and then ‘throw’ your feet on the bench. It may be awkward at first, but you will get used to it. Make sure when you grab the bar, with your feet up on the bench, that your butt is off the ground and not touching. Start your exercise, ensuring you are high enough off the ground that when you go up/down, you are not hitting the ground with your butt.”
…
"I set up the “footstand” which can be whatever and set it up so that my upper body is very close to right underneath the bar (IE smith machine or half rack [that I use]). Almost to the extent where performing a BTN Rack Chin wouldnt involve me bending forward at all. Some people set up so that they are already leaning back too far and it turns into like a rear delt row/face pull of sorts.
The height of the stand is any point where my hips just miss the height of my toes. This is the 7th hole up from the bottom on the half rack I use at my gym. Its gonna be different for the majority of people on that height mark because Im 6’4".
So at the starting position I am at a distinct acute angle. And when I finish the rep I am slightly shy of 90 degrees.
Now actually performing the rep. With Rack Chins the stretch at the bottom is very pronounced and accentuating that is what made me start feeling it the most. So I sit in the stretch for at a second or two and start each rep from there. I explode up, getting my chin to the bar, at the top I squeeze for a slight second at the top.
From there I “dip” my elbows forward ever so slightly and do a 3-4 second negative. The dip of the elbows flares the lats. I believe Wojo explains it somewhere but I forget where. Rinse and repeat.
Main things to remember is the set up, pronounce the stretch at the bottom (kills) and accentuate the negative slowly and dip the elbows slightly so you can flare your lats.
And once you’ve finished your last full rep, hit the partials. They hurt so much and will definitely get you feeling them where you are supposed to."
…
“I put plates in a backpack, one with a waist belt also.”
…
"If you are having trouble feeling the movement in your lats try pulling through your elbows and not your hands. Instead of focusing on pulling your hands and bar down to your chest, focus on keeping your elbows wide and driving them towards the floor. Helped me a ton.
During rack chins, when you’re at the top of the movement your feet should be slightly higher than your hips.
Also be sure to keep you shoulder blades pinched throughout the movement."
…
"i think the height of the feet relative to the hips in a rack chin changes how difficult the exercise is. if you can do rack chins in a smith machine, vary the height of the bar but keep the bench upon which you rest your feet at the same height. to me, the lower the feet relative to the hips, the easier the exercise. perhaps you could use this as a means of progression.
as far as execution, remember that stretching the lats at the bottom of the movement has nothing to do with how straight your arm is. you can maintain a slight bend at the elbow and still get a good stretch in the lats.
also, try to pause at the top of the movement. just to ensure that you’re not cheating to get to the top of each rep."
…
Ask Sentoguy or ScottM for a better description. They’re great at explaining these type of things.
[quote]dankid wrote:
It looks as if there is a lot less stabalization required doing these, so you can really hammer away at the big muscles. In a regular pullup you have to be really careful not to start swinging and you use a lot of stabalizers to accomplish this. .[/quote]
Now this is a good point, and I just tried this exercise before you posted this. It was the 1st thing I noticed was the lack of need to stabilize.
That said, loading weight on yourself proves to be tricky
I think I’m gonna go for them today.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
That’s like saying that there is no difference between a back squat, a front squat, and a zercher squat. From the waist down they’re all identical movements. But, the placement of the resistance and the angle of pull changes which muscles get targeted/emphasized.
I don’t buy that analogy.
So, you’re telling me rack chins because of where the weight is shifted emphasizes different muscles than a pull-up?
I’m not knocking the exercise, and I will say I’ve never done them. Flame away, and I’m not saying I’m right, but this is just my thoughts. Just seems because some big guys do a movement in a hyped program that everyone thinks it’s the best exercise there is.
It has its place I’m sure. But to say it’s superior to a pull-up? Really? Why?
Don’t say what you said above. And don’t say it stretches the lats more? How so?[/quote]
I already answered your question for you…REAL WORLD APPLICATION. That’s ALL that matters, ever… You shouldn’t be commenting on this topic at all if you haven’t even tried them. I get the best results and the most feeling in my lats from Flat-bar wide-grip pulldowns and wide-grip rack chins. You can check my profile for pics of just how well these work for developing the lats.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
That’s like saying that there is no difference between a back squat, a front squat, and a zercher squat. From the waist down they’re all identical movements. But, the placement of the resistance and the angle of pull changes which muscles get targeted/emphasized.
I don’t buy that analogy.
So, you’re telling me rack chins because of where the weight is shifted emphasizes different muscles than a pull-up?
[/quote]
Yes, the weight shifts the center of gravity as well as the angle of pull. Just like in different variations of squats. Why would the laws of physics and kinesiology apply to one group of exercises but not others?
[quote]
I’m not knocking the exercise, and I will say I’ve never done them. Flame away, and I’m not saying I’m right, but this is just my thoughts. Just seems because some big guys do a movement in a hyped program that everyone thinks it’s the best exercise there is.
It has its place I’m sure. But to say it’s superior to a pull-up? Really? Why?
Don’t say what you said above. And don’t say it stretches the lats more? How so?[/quote]
That’s like me asking you to explain why a knife is better for cutting meat than a spatula. Oh, but you can’t say because the knife is sharp and the spatula is dull. 
Myself and others have already mentioned several reasons that could potentially contribute to it being a better lat developer than traditional pull-ups for some people. I doubt that any of us are suggesting that there are one size fits all exercises, or that everyone will see better results with rack chins than pull-ups. Simply that we have and a couple reasons why we think this might be the case. Want some other possible ones? Ok, here goes:
the extremely wide grip pretty much takes the arm flexors out of the movement as much as possible (good for anyone who is an arm dominant puller and wants to instead focus on the lats)
the fact that part of the bodyweight is supported by the legs means that a higher rep range can be utilized (which many people feel works better, for them, for lats) as well as making progression easier, even as bodyweight increases
As far as how it stretches the lats better… because the lats not only cause shoulder adduction, but also assist in extension of the spine. So, as was mentioned earlier, rounding the spine while stretching the lats results in a greater stretch than which occurs when the spine is extended. And while I suppose it’s possible to round the back at the bottom of a regular pull-up, it’s pretty damn hard to do if you have any substantial weight hanging from you, and even then probably wouldn’t work as well due to the line of pull/center of gravity.
In the end they’re all just theories though. None of us knows unequivocally why the exercise works better for some people than regular pull-ups. Probably also has to do with things like lever lengths and just not being “built” all that well for pull-ups. Similar to guys like Yates not liking back squats and instead choosing to use the leg press. No one is holding a gun to anyone’s head and forcing them to do them though. Like you said, it’s just another tool in the tool box to try out and see if it works for you.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Myself and others have already mentioned several reasons that could potentially contribute to it being a better lat developer than traditional pull-ups for some people. I doubt that any of us are suggesting that there are one size fits all exercises, or that everyone will see better results with rack chins than pull-ups. Simply that we have and a couple reasons why we think this might be the case. Want some other possible ones? Ok, here goes:
[/quote]
Sorry if I missed this part earlier in the thread. Just seemed like it was being said pull-ups were no comparison for development like rack chins.
carry on.
ps- next time I’m in a bulking phase, I’ll replace chin-ups with rack chins and see how it goes. Couldn’t hurt
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?
I didn’t have my feet higher than the bar that I was hanging from. I’ll fix that next time.
[quote]progwizard wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
is there a way to get these done w/o a partner placing the weight in your lap and then making sure it stays there?
Wear a backpack on your front filled with weights maybe?
[/quote]
That is exactly what I do.
[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?
I didn’t have my feet higher than the bar that I was hanging from. I’ll fix that next time. [/quote]
You did something wrong…very very wrong.
I load mine up something pretty similar to this.
[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:
I tried them yesterday, they were interesting. They felt like they were almost entirely bicep though. My grip was as wide as the rack I was in would allow me to go. Your lats don’t really stretch at the bottom, your biceps do though. Each pull up to the bar felt like my biceps were going to explode; my lats felt barely activated. I guess these could be used more as a bicep exercise, maybe to compliment normal chinups?
I didn’t have my feet higher than the bar that I was hanging from. I’ll fix that next time. [/quote]
How is that even possible ???
Your biceps ??
You sure your doing the exercise everyone else is doing ? How are your lats not doing the work?
^That’s what you did yes ?
[quote]josh86 wrote:
I load mine up something pretty similar to this.[/quote]
Shit, you know what, I don’t think I’m getting up high enough… I also need to pause at the top.
This thread fucking delivers. Thanks guys.
I’ve gotten pretty stagnant at neutral grip pull-ups, able to do a double with a 120 db, so I’ll definitely give these a try. Thanks!
I did rack chins today for the first time properly with just BW the stretch in my lats was great, did the rest of my backwork out as normal going too keep it in.