" I guess I missed the day where all bodybuilders sat down to pasta and bread for their calories. We talking about rice?"
You’re STILL missing them considering those are what most bodybuilders get their carbs from. You’re so out of touch it’s hysterical!
And yeah, we’re talking about rice in addition to pasta and bread, both of which bodybuilders always ate and still eat.
[quote]forbes wrote:
Thing is, this is silly. The paleo diet is a great, no bullshit diet that can help people eat better.
The food guide is also another way to help people eat better.
You have many bodybuilders that eat and advocate low carb diets for health and fat loss. Heck even old time bodybuilders, like Vince Gironda, ate low carb.
But then you have the bodybuilders that eat high carb for health and fat loss. One such proponent is Clarence Bass. At his age, damn he looks good, and he eat a shit ton of whole grains.
So as we can see, both dietary approaches can work. I believe its the kind of diet that makes you feel good and is maintainable that will produce the best results in the long run.[/quote]
MOST bodybuilders eat relatively high starch (from the Paleo banned foods we speak of here-potatoes, rice, pasta, bread) diet. And some have also gotten cut to ribbons with this approach too.
Elite athletes - especially endurance - eat a shitload of carbs (up to 65% in some cases) and they function fine! Excuse me, not fine - WORLD CLASS.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
It’s also funny you mention health professionals considerign that MOST health professionals also recommend the antithesis of the Paleo diet - a diet rich in whole grains and moderate amounts of dairy, ALL vegetables, potatoes, and legumes. [/quote]
That is why most “health professionals” can blow me.
That diet would kill me.
Plus, I have seen enough “health professionels” to know that I know more about nutrition than most of them do and that is not a good thing.
And yeah, some of have gotten cut to ribbons on a Paleo friendly diet. You can make a Paleo friendly ketogenic diet easily.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Thing is, this is silly. The paleo diet is a great, no bullshit diet that can help people eat better.
The food guide is also another way to help people eat better.
You have many bodybuilders that eat and advocate low carb diets for health and fat loss. Heck even old time bodybuilders, like Vince Gironda, ate low carb.
But then you have the bodybuilders that eat high carb for health and fat loss. One such proponent is Clarence Bass. At his age, damn he looks good, and he eat a shit ton of whole grains.
So as we can see, both dietary approaches can work. I believe its the kind of diet that makes you feel good and is maintainable that will produce the best results in the long run.[/quote]
MOST bodybuilders eat relatively high starch (from the Paleo banned foods we speak of here-potatoes, rice, pasta, bread) diet. And some have also gotten cut to ribbons with this approach too.
Elite athletes - especially endurance - eat a shitload of carbs (up to 65% in some cases) and they function fine! Excuse me, not fine - WORLD CLASS. [/quote]
Yeah, they also work out five hours a day, are genetically gifted, young and have no gluten issues.
Some of them eat complete crap and can outperform me and look like Greek gods.
For now.
Lets see them at 40.
I didn’t say all health professionals know a great deal on nutrition. What I meant to communicate was that his argument didn’t hold water BECAUSE most health professionals don’t look so great (which is the be all-end all with him) and don’t promote the Paleo diet.
And MOST of healthcare is made up of doctors and nurses, not dietitians (many of whom don’t look super healthy either, except the ones I went to school with).
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Thing is, this is silly. The paleo diet is a great, no bullshit diet that can help people eat better.
The food guide is also another way to help people eat better.
You have many bodybuilders that eat and advocate low carb diets for health and fat loss. Heck even old time bodybuilders, like Vince Gironda, ate low carb.
But then you have the bodybuilders that eat high carb for health and fat loss. One such proponent is Clarence Bass. At his age, damn he looks good, and he eat a shit ton of whole grains.
So as we can see, both dietary approaches can work. I believe its the kind of diet that makes you feel good and is maintainable that will produce the best results in the long run.[/quote]
MOST bodybuilders eat relatively high starch (from the Paleo banned foods we speak of here-potatoes, rice, pasta, bread) diet. And some have also gotten cut to ribbons with this approach too.
Elite athletes - especially endurance - eat a shitload of carbs (up to 65% in some cases) and they function fine! Excuse me, not fine - WORLD CLASS. [/quote]
Excluding rice show me some vids of bb’ers eating tons of grains. You may find some during a “bulk”, but I doubt very seriously anybody cutting would want a bloated gut from all those grains.
Brick, you are obviously more educated in nutrition than me. What percentage of people are allergic to wheat? Dairy? Other grains?
Can you find some data that shows a paleo/caveman diet is not beneficial?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Thing is, this is silly. The paleo diet is a great, no bullshit diet that can help people eat better.
The food guide is also another way to help people eat better.
You have many bodybuilders that eat and advocate low carb diets for health and fat loss. Heck even old time bodybuilders, like Vince Gironda, ate low carb.
But then you have the bodybuilders that eat high carb for health and fat loss. One such proponent is Clarence Bass. At his age, damn he looks good, and he eat a shit ton of whole grains.
So as we can see, both dietary approaches can work. I believe its the kind of diet that makes you feel good and is maintainable that will produce the best results in the long run.[/quote]
MOST bodybuilders eat relatively high starch (from the Paleo banned foods we speak of here-potatoes, rice, pasta, bread) diet. And some have also gotten cut to ribbons with this approach too.
Elite athletes - especially endurance - eat a shitload of carbs (up to 65% in some cases) and they function fine! Excuse me, not fine - WORLD CLASS. [/quote]
Yeah, they also work out five hours a day, are genetically gifted, young and have no gluten issues.
Some of them eat complete crap and can outperform me and look like Greek gods.
For now.
Lets see them at 40.
[/quote]
Keep making me laugh.
They’re going to look like shit if they discontinue exercising altogether and don’t adjust their calorie intake to match their more sedentary lifestyle, NOT because they ate some shit while training 36 hours per week a la Mike Phelps and Ben Johnson.
MOST elite athletes who continue to work out and eat less than their competitive days look great actually. Have you ever seen recent pictures or footage of Carl Lewis, Mark Spitz, or Mike Johnson? They look better than many 30 year old men.
There’s no date because there’s NOTHING WRONG with the Paleo Diet! And in some cases, the approach is GOOD!
Where did you see me ripping on the diet. I simply said some people follow some things to be part of a group, which actually does feel good to most people.
Most, if not all, of Chris Aceto’s clients (Jay Cutler is on the list of former clients) got/are getting shredded with a high carb approach.
Most bodybuilders follow a 50% carb diet with most of those carbs coming from grains. Have you seen high ranking bodybuilders menus? And most rely on a lot of rice because it’s easy to prepare and measure. It’s not like they’re eating rice and avoiding other grains for some special reason. They also consume white potatoes, oatmeal, bread, and other Paleo banned foods.
Why do you favor rice?
I’ll have to look up the facts on allergies and lactose intolerance. I don’t have those stats memorized but it’s a tiny minority!
And why are you so freaking mad?!
If you live a pretty sedentary lifestyle are you gonna use your daily caloric allowance on grains or veges, fruit, nuts, and meat?
Just asking: what’s the mineral, vitamin, antioxidant, etc breakdown for most grains compared to fruits and veges?
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And why are you so freaking mad?![/quote]
Cuz I’m a fucking minotaur!
Just kidding. Not mad just trying to get people to try new things.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
[quote]Russaldo wrote:
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
Read this article.
This guy is a REAL nutritionist and is far more successful than anybody posting in this forum. [/quote]
HOLLY SHIT so your saying one diet works for EVERYONE ON THE PLANET!! AND HE WAS ON ELITE FTS!!! IT CANT BE WRONG!!
Brick is saying people should be able to eat a shit load of grains and be ok.
The same dudes that post shit about eating 8 ice cream bars in a sitting to get yoked…
Who exactly?
LETS BELIEVE EVERYTHING WE READ ON THE INTERNET!![/quote]
You seem to. After you done blowing Brick you can wipe your mouth off and eat all the grains you want. Be sure to upload some pics. I wanna see if your muscles are as big as your mouth.
Also, there are numerous health professionals who advocate a paleo like diet. I haven’t heard of one person eating paleo, caveman, or likewise complaining about their physiques.
[/quote]
hahaha, take your insecurities about your muscles somewhere else, I dont have to prove anything to you
Have fun with your big muscles/no strength. You know who eats grains, stong people… you know who doesnt? people that fake tan and shave their chest…
go half squat in the smith machine jack ass
I don’t understand why people are afraid of science. Most cave men ate fruit and grains 95% of the time, and fruit is almost all sugar. Hunter gatherers almost never ate meat.
[quote]Lover95 wrote:
I don’t understand why people are afraid of science. Most cave men ate fruit and grains 95% of the time, and fruit is almost all sugar. Hunter gatherers almost never ate meat.[/quote]
I dont know why people do not look into the science before accusing others of being afraid of it.
ABSTRACT
Both anthropologists and nutritionists have long recognized that the diets of modern-day hunter-gatherers may represent a reference standard for modern human nutrition and a model for defense against certain diseases of affluence. Because the hunter-gatherer way of life is now probably extinct in its purely un-Westernized form, nutritionists and anthropologists must rely on indirect procedures to reconstruct the traditional diet of preagricultural humans. In this analysis, we incorporate the most recent ethnographic compilation of plant-to-animal economic subsistence patterns of hunter-gatherers to estimate likely dietary macronutrient intakes (% of energy) for environmentally diverse hunter-gatherer populations. Furthermore, we show how differences in the percentage of body fat in prey animals would alter protein intakes in hunter-gatherers and how a maximal protein ceiling influences the selection of other macronutrients. Our analysis showed that whenever and wherever it was ecologically possible, hunter-gatherers consumed high amounts (45â??65% of energy) of animal food. Most (73%) of the worldwide hunter-gatherer societies derived >50% (>=56â??65% of energy) of their subsistence from animal foods, whereas only 14% of these societies derived >50% (>=56â??65% of energy) of their subsistence from gathered plant foods. This high reliance on animal-based foods coupled with the relatively low carbohydrate content of wild plant foods produces universally characteristic macronutrient consumption ratios in which protein is elevated (19â??35% of energy) at the expense of carbohydrates (22â??40% of energy).
So, what is it those people actually do eat in starchy carbs? Grains? Not so:
Hunter-gatherer societies in other environments were doubtless
eating very different diets, depending on the season and
types of resources available. Hayden (3) stated that hunter-gatherers
such as the !Kung might live in conditions close to the
â??idealâ?? hunting and gathering environment. What do the !Kung
eat? Animal foods are estimated to contribute 33% and plant
foods 67% of their daily energy intakes (1). Fifty percent (by wt)
of their plant-based diet comes from the mongongo nut, which is
available throughout the year in massive quantities (1). Similarly,
the hunter-gatherer Hazda of Tanzania consume â??the bulk
of their dietâ?? as wild plants, although they live in an area with an
exceptional abundance of game animals and refer to themselves
as hunters (18). In the average collecting area of an Aka Pygmy
group in the African rain forest, the permanent wild tuber biomass
is > 4545 kg (> 5 tons) (19).
Australian aborigines in some locales are known to have
relied seasonally on seeds of native millet (2) or a few wild fruit
and seed species (20) to satisfy daily energy demands. Some
hunter-gatherer societies in Papua New Guinea relied heavily on
starch from wild sago palms as an important source of energy
(21), whereas most hunter-gatherer societies in California
depended heavily on acorn foods from wild oaks (22).
These and similar data indicate that hunter-gatherer societies
typically did not rely on many wild plant species specifically for
energy. Rather, they had one or a few dependable wild staples
(some also good sources of protein) that provided much of their
energy needs. In nature, any dependable source of digestible
energy is generally rare and when discovered is likely to assume
great importance in the diet. Animal foods typically are hard to
capture but food such as tree fruits and grass seeds are relatively
reliable, predictable dietary elements. Furthermore, humans
come from an ancestral lineage in which plant foods traditionally
have served as the primary source of energy (14, 15). All else
being equal, digestible carbohydrates are the most expedient way
for humans to obtain glucose, the preferred fuel for the anthropoid
brain and one source of glycogen. Humans are quick to
appreciate the value of reliable energy-providing staples and will
work hard to ensure a steady supply of them.
Although agriculture is relatively recent, most hunter-gatherer
societies appear to have enthusiastically embraced it. For
example, since well before the time of Columbus, tropical rain
forests of South America have been inhabited not by huntergatherers
but by hunter-gatherer-agriculturalists, small societies
practicing shifting cultivation whose main crop was likely a single
starchy carbohydrate. Contemporary ethnographers working
in Amazonia noted that even when smoke racks are filled with
game, if the carbohydrate staple becomes exhausted, the inhabitants
say they have no food (23).
So they do not use grains, but nuts, potatoe-ish roots, and palms. Also, to claim that undemosticated fruit “is allmost all sugar” is prima facie absurd.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
If you live a pretty sedentary lifestyle are you gonna use your daily caloric allowance on grains or veges, fruit, nuts, and meat?
Just asking: what’s the mineral, vitamin, antioxidant, etc breakdown for most grains compared to fruits and veges?[/quote]
I don’t memorize that stuff by heart. I’ve memorized macronutrient amounts (carbs, protein, and fat) for MOST food exchanges. What person memorized the exact MICRONUTRIENT breakdown of each food exchange? And who would need to? That’s why we have nutrition academic texts providing this information - and even some consumer websites.
The more sedentary one is, the less carbs and calories they need. I don’t advise high carbohydrate diets (so this would most likely be lower grain intake) for most sedentary people, and neither do dietitians and nutritionists who know what they’re doing.
I’m not afraid of what the Paleo crowd has to offer and already knew that Loren Cordain is a contributor and/or on the staff (forgot exactly which position) of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
I actually mentioned Cordain’s name in my masters thesis presentation in a professional way.
I think paleo is hard to argue one way or another because people have a wide degree of sensitivity to grains, legumes, dairy, etc. In my opinion, it’s like all other nutrition strategies – see what works for you. If you have gut problems, give an elimination/paleo-type diet a try. What can it hurt? On the other side of the coin, if you have no perceived gut issues, maybe there’s no need to try it, but then again, what can it hurt? There’s definitely no need to bash something that advocates making entirely healthy food choices with a good macro balance, even if said strategy espouses eliminating foods that you might favor.
I can only speak for myself but since I ditched legumes I have a lot less stomach distress. I think paleo eating does some good things to your digestive system but obviously everyone is different.