Why Is Denial of Racism a Right Wing Issue In the West?

[Alrightmiami19c]

@OM.Bodi

Also, serving your country has nothing to do with being morally against slavery. It could just be a sense of obligation.

Pete Seeger John Brown s body

[OM.Bodi]

You edited your post, which again had nothing to do with my initial response. I have repeatedly acknowledged that some may have fought for moral reasons but, that is not why the North went to war. They only used it as a pretext. The motivations behind the Civil War were complex and intertwined with economic, political, and social factors. While some individuals may have fought for moral reasons, the broader conflict was shaped by a range of interests and considerations that extended beyond the issue of slavery.

Some of the top reasons given for joining the military are “a sense of duty”, “to serve my country”, “benefits” “a sense of obligation.” I take no issue with any of those but, they do not mean you morally agree with the conflict engaged in.

[zecarlo]

@OM.Bodi

the broader conflict was shaped by a range of interests and considerations that extended beyond the issue of slavery.

The war was fought over slavery. The Northern states abolished slavery before the war for moral reasons. Obviously, before going to war all of the consequences need to be thought of however, take out the moral reasons and there is no war and slavery would have continued.

One thing to consider is that you are judging 19th century people by 21st century standards. People thought differently about war, life and death back then.

[OM.Bodi]

You continuously cherry pick parts to respond to because you have no argument. I only pointed out a fact. Many soldiers initially supported a war only to then be against for example the War on Terror and Vietnam.

I have repeatedly acknowledged that some may have fought for moral reasons but, that is not why the North went to war.

This all started because, again

@OM.Bodi

You twisted this:

@marine77

Only whites have died to end slavery

into this:

@zecarlo

When someone refers to white people in this context they are referring to nations governed by whites and consisting of a population that was overwhelmingly white

You decided to add context and nuance when even the poster has made no such clarifications. He was patently false. That is a fact.

You accused me of being “American centric” when he clearly implied the U.S. and brought up England and Louis the X which you were also wrong about but, again decided to ignore.

@OM.Bodi

@zecarlo

There are also the abolitionist laws in France during the reign of Louis X

There was no abolition of anything. They offered certain safeguards and protections to serfs and peasants within the feudal system.

It was a strategic move by Louis X. It was to keep social order, reinforce royal authority over the nobility, and address issues within the feudal system. It was meant to minimize issues that could lead to instability and challenges to the monarchy’s control.

It was not out of the goodness if his heart.

Were there forward thinkers against slavery? Yes

Were abolitionists against slavery? Yes

Did people fight in the civil war for moral reasons? Yes

But, nothing was done until the North decided to. “North” being the Military, Government, and the elites of industry. When it was economically, financially, and politically to their benefit.

Just like the war on poverty, drugs, terror etc.

The masses or fed a narrative and they follow it.

[Alrightmiami19c]

@OM.Bodi

that is not why the North went to war.

That’s true. It was to crush a rebellion.

@OM.Bodi

I have repeatedly acknowledged that some may have fought for moral reasons

The point of the John brown song was precisely that. Though most didn’t enlist to end slavery, it did become a motivation later in the war for much of the northern soldiers.

[OM.Bodi]

@zecarlo

The war was fought over slavery. The Northern states abolished slavery before the war for moral reasons. Obviously, before going to war all of the consequences need to be thought of however, take out the moral reasons and there is no war and slavery would have continued.

Wrong, before the Civil War, the American economy found itself in a state of transition. The predominantly agricultural economy of 1800 was undergoing the initial phases of an industrial revolution, slave labor was no longer as profitable (Which explained in my post as to why England abolished it, which again you ignored).

The North was moving towards developing a commercial and manufacturing-based economy and needed the South to drive the United States toward becoming a dominant global industrial force.

@OM.Bodi

The Northern elites did not care about slavery; their priority was maintaining power and increasing wealth. This was achieved through producing military supplies, weapons, transportation and railroads, banking, etc

“During the war, Congress also passed several major financial bills that forever altered the American monetary system. The Legal Tender Act authorized the federal government to print and use paper money, called “greenbacks,” to pay its bills and finance the war. Even though greenbacks were not backed by similar amounts of gold and silver, creditors were required to accept them at face value. By the end of the war, the government had printed over $500 million in greenbacks, and the American financial system’s strict reliance on transactions in gold or silver ended. The National Bank Act created a national banking system to reduce the number of notes issued by individual banks and create a single federal currency. The Internal Revenue Act eased inflation primarily by placing excise taxes on many luxury items such as tobacco and jewelry. More famously, the first U.S. income tax was imposed in July 1861, at 3 percent of all incomes over $800 up to 10 percent for incomes over $100,000 to help pay for the war effort.”

There is always a reason.

[FlatsFarmer]

Oh yeah, that whole Secession thing.

[zecarlo]

The simple question is, had there not been strong moral objections to slavery, held by a significant number of people, would slavery have been abolished at that time?

[zecarlo]

@Alrightmiami19c

It was to crush a rebellion.

What was the rebellion over? Slavery.

[Alrightmiami19c]

Union Dixie Trap Remix

[jshaving]

I don’t remember exactly what my post was about. I think someone said something along the lines of “whites have to watch everything they say/do these days,” which I don’t think is untrue, but I also don’t think it’s entirely true. My examples were simply to show that outside of blue states, liberal urban centers, and the corporate world, there are still plenty of places where whites feel perfectly comfortable doing whatever they want and talking however they please. I don’t think all, or even very many, white people are racist, by the way, just wanted to point out that not all whites always have to be careful.

@twojarslave

As a conservative man, I’d suggest your cousin look towards a similar inward solution, rather than expect assholes to stop being assholes.

I don’t know that he hasn’t. But he’s now back where he grew up, where his mom still lives, and he and his family are happier living where they are now than where they were.

@twojarslave

There are all kinds of fun scenarios you can play out in your mind for how you can confront assholes in public, but you’ve got children now and you don’t get to pick petty battles with assholes in public anymore.

Oh I wouldn’t. I’m not that type of guy. By saying those people didn’t have concern for who was around or who could hear, I didn’t mean they needed to be careful for who might overhear and decide to beat them senseless, I mean they were just throwing around certain words and ideas without being considerate of who their audience was. Like, when I’m in a restaurant, I don’t swear in front of small children or talk about my sex life in front of elderly people, you know? Basic manners. If someone hates a race of people, fine, but talk about it at home, not in the company of families and old people you don’t know. Be a little more respectful with your racism, haha.

@twojarslave

Well, maybe once they’re in late high school you could do what I did and do a little dive bar security work. That’s a good way to scratch an itch you may have to publicly confront assholes of all races, colors and creeds.

I was a bouncer for a couple of years. Around ages 18-20 or so. Confronting assholes rarely does much, in my opinion. (Especially if they’re not sober.) It’s like PWI arguments on here. No one really wants to change their minds. Publicly confronting someone over their behavior will probably just make them double down on said asshole behavior 9 out of 10 times. Some people feel like tough guys when they confront someone, but unless I see someone defenseless actually being harmed, I’m just gonna let the asshole in question continue living their likely unhappy lives. Not worth my energy to get upset over someone being a dick.

[SkyzykS]

@OM.Bodi

they do not mean you morally agree with the conflict engaged in.

That doesn’t make for very good fighters.

But they could also muster the will to fight from the other motives.

Moral component is strong though. It definitely helps when people see the enemy as sub human scum & whatnot.

[zecarlo]

Ask people in the military if there is a difference between the soldiers who joined for monetary benefits and those who joined out of a sense of duty or even self improvement.

[zecarlo]

Is this the exact opposite of denial?

John Mellencamp Claims Only 2% Of Black People In America Have Better Lives...

[marine77]

Love his music but what a cunt

[SkyzykS]

@zecarlo

Ask people in the military if there is a difference between the soldiers who joined for monetary benefits

Trick statement. If you did this there is no way you passed the asvab.

[tlgains]

How can I take this Assvab test?
That sounds interesting

[OM.Bodi]

@SkyzykS

That doesn’t make for very good fighters.

But they could also muster the will to fight from the other motives.

Moral component is strong though. It definitely helps when people see the enemy as sub human scum & whatnot.

@OM.Bodi

Some of the top reasons given for joining the military are “a sense of duty”, “to serve my country”, “benefits” “a sense of obligation.” I take no issue with any of those but, they do not mean you morally agree with the conflict engaged in.

Absolutely but, I was giving the motivations that modern studies and research have shown as to why individuals join the military. Do you believe they believed it was moral by the end? (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.) Many personal accounts, interviews, documentaries suggest a different sentiment, that while they may not have held onto a strong moral conviction, they continued to fight for their brothers. Their experiences and loss of friends/family made them see the other as the enemy. Once again it is those in power pulling the strings.

Regarding the Civil War, I am arguing the belief that every soldier fought solely due to an anti-slavery moral stance. Do you not believe that fighting because the North portrayed the South as a threat to their livelihoods and family well-being, highlighting the potential economic and social consequences of allowing slavery to expand into new territories and the West would make good fighters? Is that not a reason to fight and die?

That along with the promises of money, land etc. Otherwise, as I stated earlier why would Asians, Latinos, and Native Americans join the fight? What incentive was there for them to die for slaves? If not for empty promises and a threat of an encroaching FREE workforce, then what? Morals? I highly doubt it.

I used this example above but, look at the reactions surrounding topics like cheap labor and immigration. Most who oppose these issues do not prioritize the well-being of the workers, but rather believe the narrative that portrays these situations as encroachments on job opportunities and their livelihood “They are taking our jobs”. While some individuals genuinely care, the majority are influenced by the narrative. Once again it is those in power pulling the strings.

[SkyzykS]

The assvab is for joining the navy.

ASVAB is for the rest of the branches.

So, You contact a recruiter. They take you into the recruitment center and squirt a whole bottle of dishsoap on the floor and surround you while yelling “PICK UP THE SOAP!”

If you bend down to pick it up they send you to a Navy boot camp.

If you run out the door the recruiters from other branches are waiting on the other side.

[SkyzykS]

@OM.Bodi

Do you not

And

@OM.Bodi

Is that not a reason

Ok. Stop doing that. Its kinda irritating.

@OM.Bodi

Do you believe they believed it was moral by the end? (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.)

I don’t have to believe it. I have plenty of veteran family and friends to ask directly. They have mixed feelings on the purpose of their time in the military.