Why Iran Should Get the Bomb

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
What more is there to discuss?

As far as I’m concerned, Iran will develop a nuclear weapons program. Whether they “should” or not is irrelevant. They are a sovereign nation with real an perceived threats to their national sovereignty, and they will act accordingly.

Whether they will use those weapons, or whether they will be allowed to keep those weapons, depends entirely upon circumstance. The Iranians, in my estimation, are not interested in self-annihilation, so I don’t think that a preemptive nuke strike upon a US ally will be something that the leadership will consider.

As far as terrorists getting hold of Iranian nukes, this makes little sense to me. If the Iranians are going to the trouble of developing a nuclear weapon, I don’t see them then just throwing them away. And if terrorists really wanted a nuke, they would have gotten one already from corrupt military sources in Ukraine or Georgia or some other former Soviet republic.

Just my zwei pfennig.[/quote]

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

If you lived in Israel would your opinion stand?[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not.

If you lived in Tehran, would yours?

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
What more is there to discuss?

As far as I’m concerned, Iran will develop a nuclear weapons program. Whether they “should” or not is irrelevant. They are a sovereign nation with real an perceived threats to their national sovereignty, and they will act accordingly.

Whether they will use those weapons, or whether they will be allowed to keep those weapons, depends entirely upon circumstance. The Iranians, in my estimation, are not interested in self-annihilation, so I don’t think that a preemptive nuke strike upon a US ally will be something that the leadership will consider.

As far as terrorists getting hold of Iranian nukes, this makes little sense to me. If the Iranians are going to the trouble of developing a nuclear weapon, I don’t see them then just throwing them away. And if terrorists really wanted a nuke, they would have gotten one already from corrupt military sources in Ukraine or Georgia or some other former Soviet republic.

Just my zwei pfennig.[/quote]

We obviously can’t declare that you’re definitely wrong, it’s just that the implications are so gargantuan if you are.[/quote]

Well, then. It’s a good thing that my opinions are irrelevant to US foreign policy and the Iranian nuclear program.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

…And if terrorists really wanted a nuke, they would have gotten one already from corrupt military sources in Ukraine or Georgia or some other former Soviet republic.

[/quote]

Why is that an implied absolute?

What if you’re wrong?
[/quote]

Then I will be wrong.

It happens from time to time. I’ve learned not to get too worked up over it.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
My suspicions are confirmed.

Our new friend is definitely German. [/quote]

He’s not new. Just a guy that was around awhile back under a different screen name.

Pomposity leaves a stain that’s difficult to remove. [/quote]

Nominal Prospect?!?!?[/quote]

Ol’ Nommy. Had forgotten about that young mixed up feller. If this was him he’d have already self destructed into Mein Kampf-isms by now.

No, Bissy here is a feller that was on here for a few months, oh say a couple of years ago, I think. Same writing style. Same arrogance and pomposity. Condescension galore. Floated similar ridiculous ideas akin to “Antarctica would make for a great place for future coffee plantations and here are my ‘experts’ that say it can be so.”

Don’t know why
[/quote]

Why? Because this is a genuine Bismarck.
Please note the spelling.
The current Gibbering Idiot is fraudulent imitation of a cream-filled donut.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
My suspicions are confirmed.

Our new friend is definitely German. [/quote]

He’s not new. Just a guy that was around awhile back under a different screen name.

Pomposity leaves a stain that’s difficult to remove. [/quote]

Nominal Prospect?!?!?[/quote]

Ol’ Nommy. Had forgotten about that young mixed up feller. If this was him he’d have already self destructed into Mein Kampf-isms by now.

No, Bissy here is a feller that was on here for a few months, oh say a couple of years ago, I think. Same writing style. Same arrogance and pomposity. Condescension galore. Floated similar ridiculous ideas akin to “Antarctica would make for a great place for future coffee plantations and here are my ‘experts’ that say it can be so.”

Don’t know why
[/quote]

Why? Because this is a genuine Bismarck.
Please note the spelling.
The current Gibbering Idiot is fraudulent imitation of a cream-filled donut.[/quote]

Full marcks for you, Doc.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

If you lived in Tehran, would yours?

[/quote]

Even more so, yes.

I would not want the birdbrain mullahs and their puppets in the military painting a giant virtual bullseye on my city and country.[/quote]

Well, then, I guess we can thank God that we don’t live in a country where irresponsible decisions by birdbrained demagogues and their puppets can have catastrophic geopolitical ramifications.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

If you lived in Tehran, would yours?

[/quote]

Even more so, yes.

I would not want the birdbrain mullahs and their puppets in the military painting a giant virtual bullseye on my city and country.[/quote]

Well, then, I guess we can thank God that we don’t live in a country where irresponsible decisions by birdbrained demagogues and their puppets can have catastrophic geopolitical ramifications. [/quote]

Yet those people wish to do us and our friends the greatest of harm…so it does affect us.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
My suspicions are confirmed.

Our new friend is definitely German. [/quote]

He’s not new. Just a guy that was around awhile back under a different screen name.

Pomposity leaves a stain that’s difficult to remove. [/quote]

Nominal Prospect?!?!?[/quote]

Ol’ Nommy. Had forgotten about that young mixed up feller. If this was him he’d have already self destructed into Mein Kampf-isms by now.

No, Bissy here is a feller that was on here for a few months, oh say a couple of years ago, I think. Same writing style. Same arrogance and pomposity. Condescension galore. Floated similar ridiculous ideas akin to “Antarctica would make for a great place for future coffee plantations and here are my ‘experts’ that say it can be so.”

Don’t know why
[/quote]

Why? Because this is a genuine Bismarck.
Please note the spelling.
The current Gibbering Idiot is fraudulent imitation of a cream-filled donut.[/quote]

If I’m so dimwitted, than you should have no trouble demonstrating my argument to be false. All you’ve done so far is call me an idiot. But what should I expect from someone who believes there were “3 hegemons” in Asia during the Cold War? You shouldn’t participate in an international relations discussion with such a haughty attitude when you don’t even understand the basic concept of polarity.

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

If you lived in Tehran, would yours?

[/quote]

Even more so, yes.

I would not want the birdbrain mullahs and their puppets in the military painting a giant virtual bullseye on my city and country.[/quote]

Well, then, I guess we can thank God that we don’t live in a country where irresponsible decisions by birdbrained demagogues and their puppets can have catastrophic geopolitical ramifications. [/quote]

Yet those people wish to do us and our friends the greatest of harm…so it does affect us.[/quote]

If you reread what Varq wrote, you’ll see that he was referring to the United States.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

…And if terrorists really wanted a nuke, they would have gotten one already from corrupt military sources in Ukraine or Georgia or some other former Soviet republic.

[/quote]

Why is that an implied absolute?

What if you’re wrong?
[/quote]

Then I will be wrong.

It happens from time to time. I’ve learned not to get too worked up over it. [/quote]

See, that’s the thing about guys like you being wrong about stuff like this. If you are, well, no big deal because you can afford to gamble big on a subject like this. No skin off your hide, or anyone else’s, if you miss the mark.

Problems arise, however, when folks at the high level roll the dice.[/quote]

Aren’t statesmen perpetually rolling the iron dice?

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

…And if terrorists really wanted a nuke, they would have gotten one already from corrupt military sources in Ukraine or Georgia or some other former Soviet republic.

[/quote]

Why is that an implied absolute?

What if you’re wrong?
[/quote]

Then I will be wrong.

It happens from time to time. I’ve learned not to get too worked up over it. [/quote]

See, that’s the thing about guys like you being wrong about stuff like this. If you are, well, no big deal because you can afford to gamble big on a subject like this. No skin off your hide, or anyone else’s, if you miss the mark.

Problems arise, however, when folks at the high level roll the dice.[/quote]

Guys like us, you mean: people with no actual influence on foreign policy.

I was thinking about this subject this morning. I know your opinion of the second amendment, and you know mine.

Tell me: should you be allowed to own a handgun, given your opinions about the depradations of the federal government in general, and the present administration in particular?

Silly question, I know. Of course you should. What threat to the federal government could you possibly pose all by yourself with a dinky little pistol?

Okay, but what about a rifle? Not just any rifle, but a Barrett .50? Still no law says you can’t have one, not in Montana anyway.

Never mind rifles, then. Should you be allowed to own an M2 machine gun? You can have one, you know. Just pay your transfer tax. In fact, scratch that. You wanna dream? Dream big. A 30mm chain gun. Ammo might be a bit hard to come by at Cabela’s, and it does retail for 115 dollars per round, but let’s say you have a very good friend at the ATK plant in Lewiston who gives you one hell of a deal.

Now let’s say you want to mount your new toy on an aircraft. What better than that surplus Apache you’ve had your eye on for awhile on eBay. Fifty million dollars and it’s yours. We’ll assume you have the necessary skills and licenses necessary to fly this particular aircraft.

Well, naturally your new toy has raised a few eyebrows, and one of your neighbors (the one you’ve been exchanging random insults with over the barbed wire fence for the last few years) has taken it upon himself to take pot shots at your helicopter with his 12-gauge every now and then. You respond by paying the neighborhood punks to poison his dog. But so far neither of you have gone to “the authorities” with your grievances.

The fact is, nothing you’ve done is against the law. Well, the dog poisoning thing is kind of sketchy, but it’s not like you’ve strafed his house or anything.

My question is, do you have a right to own thy helicopter and its cannon, under the second amendment? My answer is yes. It is an arm, and you are bearing it, as part of a well-regulated militia comprising yourself, defending your particular corner of a free state. Should the fact that you MIGHT strafe your neighbor’s house, or the IRS office in Kalispell, or the Federal Building in Helena, or even (if you could arrange the ridiculous logistical feat of transport), the White House in Washington, be just cause for ATF agents to raid your property, destroy your helicopter and burn down your house?

After all, you’ve gone on record criticizing the actions of the Federal Government. You are clearly a Rogue Citizen.

Varq typed with a nimble wit reminiscent of Karado, to Karado:

"Why should the Israelis give a shit about fucking up anybody’s Christmas?

They probably have planned the attack with the express purpose of fucking up Christmas.

In fact, the Iranians probably timed the completion of their nuclear program in January just so the Israelis can attack them and fuck up Christmas.

Those Muslims and Jews, man. They will go out of their way to FUCK UP your Christmas. Even if it means attacking each other."

In that case, knowing that you’re certain that they are the only two Countries involved that will attack each
other means that WON’T fuck up our holidays and warms the cockles of my Heart…Merry Agnosticismas.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
.[/quote]

This must be your favorite picture. You have posted it twice. Did you catch the ghey?[/quote]

You’re the one with pictures of a fat man jumping into a swimming pool on your desktop. Or are those from your family vacation? I’m not the one that comes to a weightlifting website with half naked dudes on the front page to “discuss politics”. Seriously man, why do you even bother coming to a fucking weightlifting site? Do you like the back pages of certain weightlifting magazines too?

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
in the final days of WWII…the Nazis began to pin their hopes on ‘super weapons’ like the V2 rocket. Fortunately SOE trained saboteurs had destroyed the Nazis nuclear program in Norway in 1943 however undoubtably the Nazis would have used the bomb had they developed it.[/quote]

This sounds more like an argument that a lone nuclear equipped country creates LESS stability in a region without nuclear adversaries than whatever it was you were actually saying.

[/quote]

No, the important point is the nature of who has the bomb. Nazi Germany could be trusted to use the bomb against defenseless countries. The United States can be trusted not to use the bomb except where absolutely necessary.

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

So we should discount the professional opinions of individuals who have unparalleled knowledge of the subject in question?[/quote]

You’re talking about the Berkeley professor who’s been dubbed ‘The Stupidest Strategist?’

As I’ve said before, I always wonder when European nationalists quote hardcore leftists…but not for long.[/quote]

As I told Push, that comment was clearly in reference to the findings of experts in the field regarding the effects of radioactive material dispersed by a conventional explosive. Who the fuck is Daniel Pipes? He certainly wasn’t one of the most preeminent scholars in international relations. He doesn’t even appear to be a scholar at all. I’m a “European nationalist?” And Kenneth Waltz is a “leftist?”[/quote]

There’s this thing called Wikipedia…

‘Daniel Pipes (born September 9, 1949) is an American historian, writer, and political commentator. He is the president of the Middle East Forum, and publisher of its Middle East Quarterly journal. His writing focuses on the American foreign policy and the Middle East. He is also an Expert at Wikistrat…’