The Iran Problem

There is an obvious problem with a terrorist-sponsoring regime’s quest for nuclear technology. However, simply analyzing the problem in terms of Iran is short sighted - the real problem is this: How will the rest of the Middle East react to a nuclear-armed Iran?

The most probable reaction is a mutiple-country nuclear-armament race. That is a very bad scenario, given the governments in question.

Don’t think it will happen?

Well, it already is.

See: Middle East racing to nuclear power - CSMonitor.com

EXCERPT:

[i]Middle East racing to nuclear power
Shiite Iran’s ambitions have spurred 13 Sunni states to declare atomic energy aims this year.
By Dan Murphy | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Cairo

This week Egypt became the 13th Middle Eastern country in the past year to say it wants nuclear power, intensifying an atomic race spurred largely by Iran’s nuclear agenda, which many in the region and the West claim is cover for a weapons program.

Experts say the nuclear ambitions of majority Sunni Muslim states such as Libya, Jordan, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia are reactions to Shiite Iran’s high-profile nuclear bid, seen as linked with Tehran’s campaign for greater influence and prestige throughout the Middle East.

“To have 13 states in the region say they’re interested in nuclear power over the course of a year certainly catches the eye,” says Mark Fitzpatrick, a former senior nonproliferation official in the US State Department who is now a fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London. “The Iranian angle is the reason.”

…[/i]

Given the major driver, it’s just more motivation to make certain that Iran does not attain nuclear capability.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/09/how_to_keep_the_bomb_from_iran.html

EXCERPT:

[i] …both deterrence optimism and proliferation fatalism are wrong-headed. Deterrence optimism is based on mistaken nostalgia and a faulty analogy. Although deterrence did work with the Soviet Union and China, there were many close calls; maintaining nuclear peace during the Cold War was far more difficult and uncertain than U.S. officials and the American public seem to remember today. Furthermore, a nuclear Iran would look a lot less like the totalitarian Soviet Union and the People’s Republic of China and a lot more like Pakistan, Iran’s unstable neighbor – a far more frightening prospect. Fatalism about nuclear proliferation is equally unwarranted. Although the United States did fail to prevent its major Cold War rivals from developing nuclear arsenals, many other countries curbed their own nuclear ambitions. After flirting with nuclear programs in the 1960s, West Germany and Japan decided that following the NPT and relying on the protection of the U.S. nuclear umbrella would bring them greater security in the future; South Korea and Taiwan gave up covert nuclear programs when the United States threatened to sever security relations with them; North Korea froze its plutonium production in the 1990s; and Libya dismantled its nascent nuclear program in 2003.

Given these facts, Washington should work harder to prevent the unthinkable rather than accept what falsely appears to be inevitable. The lesson to be drawn from the history of nonproliferation is not that all states eyeing the bomb eventually get it but that nonproliferation efforts succeed when the United States and other global actors help satisfy whatever concerns drove a state to want nuclear weapons in the first place. [/i]

What do you think drove Iran to want nuclear weapons? And how are you going to do to satisfy their concerns?

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
There is an obvious problem with a terrorist-sponsoring regime’s quest for nuclear technology. [/quote]

Need I remind you that the US is a terrorist-sponsoring state itself?

As for thinking that the recent surge in nuclear interest stems from fear of an imperialistic Iran, it’s not exactly the whole picture. Morocco is among those 13 states your articles talks about, but it would be extremely silly to think that it faces any threat from Iran. It’s on the other side of the planet for heaven’s sake!

Anyway, one needs to look at the 90$+ barrel of oil to undestand the motives of those states. Of course, given the carnage in Iraq, some countries might consider it judicious to arm up, just in case some bully decides to invades their country.

[quote]lixy wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
There is an obvious problem with a terrorist-sponsoring regime’s quest for nuclear technology.

Need I remind you that the US is a terrorist-sponsoring state itself?

As for thinking that the recent surge in nuclear interest stems from fear of an imperialistic Iran, it’s not exactly the whole picture. Morocco is among those 13 states your articles talks about, but it would be extremely silly to think that it faces any threat from Iran. It’s on the other side of the planet for heaven’s sake!

Anyway, one needs to look at the 90$+ barrel of oil to undestand the motives of those states. Of course, given the carnage in Iraq, some countries might consider it judicious to arm up, just in case some bully decides to invades their country.[/quote]

You are a bigot so your OPINION is meaningless on this matter. It’s like the KKK position on race relations. It doesn’t really matter because it is so biased.

Here is a passage from an easy to follow reference source that you beat to death…Wikpedia. The format should be easy enough for someone like you, with limited intellectual ability, to follow. It’s the real list of nations sponsoring terrorism and the reasons why they are on the list.

State Sponsors of Terrorism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State Sponsors of Terrorism is a designation applied by the United States Department of State to nations who are designated by the Secretary of State “to have repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism.” [1] Inclusion on the list imposes strict sanctions.

The list began on December 29, 1979 with Libya, Iraq, South Yemen, and Syria.

Countries currently on the list

Cuba - Added in 1982 though no official explanation was provided.[1] A 2003 report contended that Cuba supported terrorist groups during the period it was added to the report. Current justification cites support for members of Basque ETA and the Colombian FARC and ELN groups. Conversely, Cuba has accused the United States of supporting, sponsoring and initiating terrorism against Cuba since 1961. Those who oppose Cuba’s retention on the list contend that Cuba has made repeated offers to the United States since 2001 for a bilateral agreement to fight international terrorism, but the United States has not responded.[1] Critics also argue that domestic political considerations are responsible and question many of the allegations made in the State department report.

Iran - Added in 1984. According to the State Department, “continued to provide Lebanese Hezbollah and the Palestinian rejectionist groups�??notably Hamas, the Palestine Islamic Jihad, and the PFLP-GC�??with varying amounts of funding, safe haven, training, and weapons. It also encouraged Hezbollah and the rejectionist Palestinian groups to coordinate their planning and to escalate their activities.”

North Korea - Added in 1988. Sold weapons to terrorist groups and to have given asylum to Japanese Communist League-Red Army Faction members. The country is also responsible for the Rangoon bombing and the bombing of KAL Flight 858.

Sudan - Added in 1993. “A number of international terrorist groups including al-Qaida, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Egyptian al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya, the Palestine Islamic Jihad, and Hamas continued to use Sudan as a safe haven, primarily for conducting logistics and other support activities.”

Syria - “provided Hezbollah, Hamas, PFLP-GC, the PIJ, and other militia organizations refuge and basing privileges.”

Hmmmm…$100 oil likely to cause another Great Depression…$100 oil likely to make dollar worth less and less…$100 oil dramatically decreasing American electorates’ standard of living…

I’m surprised we haven’t yet, in concert with our European allies (even Belgium), simply taken over the supply. Venezuela, Iran, especially.

Bomb the weapons sites with MOABs and Daisy Cutters, take over the oil fields, kill any locals who come near. How simple!!

OPEC is taunting us with this price. Why wait until we’re weaker?

[quote]hedo wrote:
lixy wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
There is an obvious problem with a terrorist-sponsoring regime’s quest for nuclear technology.

Need I remind you that the US is a terrorist-sponsoring state itself?

As for thinking that the recent surge in nuclear interest stems from fear of an imperialistic Iran, it’s not exactly the whole picture. Morocco is among those 13 states your articles talks about, but it would be extremely silly to think that it faces any threat from Iran. It’s on the other side of the planet for heaven’s sake!

Anyway, one needs to look at the 90$+ barrel of oil to undestand the motives of those states. Of course, given the carnage in Iraq, some countries might consider it judicious to arm up, just in case some bully decides to invades their country.

You are a bigot so your OPINION is meaningless on this matter. It’s like the KKK position on race relations. It doesn’t really matter because it is so biased.

Here is a passage from an easy to follow reference source that you beat to death…Wikpedia. The format should be easy enough for someone like you, with limited intellectual ability, to follow. It’s the real list of nations sponsoring terrorism and the reasons why they are on the list.

State Sponsors of Terrorism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State Sponsors of Terrorism is a designation applied by the United States Department of State to nations who are designated by the Secretary of State “to have repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism.” [1] Inclusion on the list imposes strict sanctions.

The list began on December 29, 1979 with Libya, Iraq, South Yemen, and Syria.

Countries currently on the list

Cuba - Added in 1982 though no official explanation was provided.[1] A 2003 report contended that Cuba supported terrorist groups during the period it was added to the report. Current justification cites support for members of Basque ETA and the Colombian FARC and ELN groups. Conversely, Cuba has accused the United States of supporting, sponsoring and initiating terrorism against Cuba since 1961. Those who oppose Cuba’s retention on the list contend that Cuba has made repeated offers to the United States since 2001 for a bilateral agreement to fight international terrorism, but the United States has not responded.[1] Critics also argue that domestic political considerations are responsible and question many of the allegations made in the State department report.

Iran - Added in 1984. According to the State Department, “continued to provide Lebanese Hezbollah and the Palestinian rejectionist groups�??notably Hamas, the Palestine Islamic Jihad, and the PFLP-GC�??with varying amounts of funding, safe haven, training, and weapons. It also encouraged Hezbollah and the rejectionist Palestinian groups to coordinate their planning and to escalate their activities.”

North Korea - Added in 1988. Sold weapons to terrorist groups and to have given asylum to Japanese Communist League-Red Army Faction members. The country is also responsible for the Rangoon bombing and the bombing of KAL Flight 858.

Sudan - Added in 1993. “A number of international terrorist groups including al-Qaida, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, Egyptian al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya, the Palestine Islamic Jihad, and Hamas continued to use Sudan as a safe haven, primarily for conducting logistics and other support activities.”

Syria - “provided Hezbollah, Hamas, PFLP-GC, the PIJ, and other militia organizations refuge and basing privileges.”

[/quote]

Yup and the US does the same-

That is all he claimed.

However bigoted he might or might not be that is a factual question.

Mossadegh, Iran Contra, Bay of Pigs, PKK, there is a pretty long list.

And all these dictators that were kept in power because they were not communists…

Let me guess, I am being anti-American again?

[quote]hedo wrote:
State Sponsors of Terrorism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State Sponsors of Terrorism is a designation applied by the United States Department of State to nations who are designated by the Secretary of State “to have repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism.” [1] Inclusion on the list imposes strict sanctions.
[/quote]

Scrolling down a bit further, we find…

I’ll stop right here out of respect. I don’t want to hijack BB’s thread.

[quote]lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
State Sponsors of Terrorism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State Sponsors of Terrorism is a designation applied by the United States Department of State to nations who are designated by the Secretary of State “to have repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism.” [1] Inclusion on the list imposes strict sanctions.

Scrolling down a bit further, we find…

I’ll stop right here out of respect. I don’t want to hijack BB’s thread.[/quote]

These are no separate issues.

I think we all have learned one thing by now, have no nuclear weapon and you risk getting your ass kicked, have nuclear weapons and you are safe.

Safe, not from Iran, but from the US.

The time to get nuclear weapons is obviously right now, while the US is occupied in Iraq and there is a strong anti-war sentiment in the US.

It takes about 10 years to build nukes from scratch so they need to get their act together soon, the fact that more than one country developes them makes a move against single country by the US or Israel much less likely.

Maybe the next president has a chance to put that back into Pandora´s box but that will cost the US a lot.

[quote]orion wrote:
lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
State Sponsors of Terrorism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State Sponsors of Terrorism is a designation applied by the United States Department of State to nations who are designated by the Secretary of State “to have repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism.” [1] Inclusion on the list imposes strict sanctions.

Scrolling down a bit further, we find…

I’ll stop right here out of respect. I don’t want to hijack BB’s thread.

These are no separate issues.

I think we all have learned one thing by now, have no nuclear weapon and you risk getting your ass kicked, have nuclear weapons and you are safe.

Safe, not from Iran, but from the US.

The time to get nuclear weapons is obviously right now, while the US is occupied in Iraq and there is a strong anti-war sentiment in the US.

It takes about 10 years to build nukes from scratch so they need to get their act together soon, the fact that more than one country developes them makes a move against single country by the US or Israel much less likely.

Maybe the next president has a chance to put that back into Pandora´s box but that will cost the US a lot.

[/quote]

Interesting reality you have created for yourself.

Unfortunately the real world operates a little differently.

A single nuke or two will cause a lot of problems in the ME and Europe. When they do use one it will be directed at the weaker states in Europe or the ME.

The great satan will lob a hundred back in return. Even a Democrat.

You have a lot more to worry about then the US. Iran is a completely irrational nation led by fanatics. I know you are to timid to face a problem and possibly experience a confrontation but simply putting your head in the sand will not help you here.

It’s also the reason the Iranians nuke facilities get taken out this soon.

[quote]lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
State Sponsors of Terrorism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State Sponsors of Terrorism is a designation applied by the United States Department of State to nations who are designated by the Secretary of State “to have repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism.” [1] Inclusion on the list imposes strict sanctions.

Scrolling down a bit further, we find…

I’ll stop right here out of respect. I don’t want to hijack BB’s thread.[/quote]

You already did asswipe. You do what you always do. Try and turn it around so that the thread is directed against the US. You really are transparent but I’m glad that you think you aren’t. That’s why you are dull and boring and not much use other then for comic relief

State sponsors of Terrorism were listed. Your opinion is still meaningless and pointless. Did you contribute to that entry by the way? It kind of parrots your life work on the cyber Jihad.

[quote]hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
State Sponsors of Terrorism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

State Sponsors of Terrorism is a designation applied by the United States Department of State to nations who are designated by the Secretary of State “to have repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism.” [1] Inclusion on the list imposes strict sanctions.

Scrolling down a bit further, we find…

I’ll stop right here out of respect. I don’t want to hijack BB’s thread.

These are no separate issues.

I think we all have learned one thing by now, have no nuclear weapon and you risk getting your ass kicked, have nuclear weapons and you are safe.

Safe, not from Iran, but from the US.

The time to get nuclear weapons is obviously right now, while the US is occupied in Iraq and there is a strong anti-war sentiment in the US.

It takes about 10 years to build nukes from scratch so they need to get their act together soon, the fact that more than one country developes them makes a move against single country by the US or Israel much less likely.

Maybe the next president has a chance to put that back into Pandora´s box but that will cost the US a lot.

Interesting reality you have created for yourself.

Unfortunately the real world operates a little differently.

A single nuke or two will cause a lot of problems in the ME and Europe. When they do use one it will be directed at the weaker states in Europe or the ME.

The great satan will lob a hundred back in return. Even a Democrat.

You have a lot more to worry about then the US. Iran is a completely irrational nation led by fanatics. I know you are to timid to face a problem and possibly experience a confrontation but simply putting your head in the sand will not help you here.

It’s also the reason the Iranians nuke facilities get taken out this soon.

[/quote]

My interesting reality makes more sense than being afraid of a country that has not attacked someone since 1757?

Plus that they are completely irrational is a myth.

They play you pretty well so far, and a US attack will cost them little and ensure that they stay in power the next 20 years.

There is a difference between avoiding conflict and actively seeking it.

[quote]orion wrote:

My interesting reality makes more sense than being afraid of a country that has not attacked someone since 1757?


[/quote]

To which country are you referring?

[quote]hedo wrote:
… [/quote]

I didn’t, you imbecile. I actually took the time to read the article and address BB’s point. All you do is rant about so-called “cyber-jihad”. Grow up already!

No one is considering the megapolitical problem of $100 oil. Such a situation cannot continue — either oil has to get cheaper very soon, or the dollar will have a horrible collapse and spiral us into a Great Depression. We MUST attack either Iran or Venezuela, get the oil, and drive the price down. Venezuela would be better but Chavez is not quite the same evil as Ahmadijhad.

A tidal wave is coming and we’re debating the ‘problem of Iran’. That’s like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Take the oil or collapse. Pick one. Sheeeesshhhh…

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:

My interesting reality makes more sense than being afraid of a country that has not attacked someone since 1757?

To which country are you referring?[/quote]

Iran aka Persia, alas, I have to dissent from the mainstream of dissenters:

My new date is, since Russio-Persian war 1826.

I believe the Russians were expanding southward into the various Khanates, Ottoman Empire and Iran. This eventually led to the Crimean war. So, in that war, I believe Russia was the aggressor.

(It is from this period on that I base my claim that Russia caused more pain, misery and death to muslims than anyone else on the planet. . . . But their “good guys” now since they do not back Israel, arm terrorists and are helping Iran in the current nuke situation, right Lixy?)

We should embrace them with love…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Hmmmm…$100 oil likely to cause another Great Depression…$100 oil likely to make dollar worth less and less…$100 oil dramatically decreasing American electorates’ standard of living…

I’m surprised we haven’t yet, in concert with our European allies (even Belgium), simply taken over the supply. Venezuela, Iran, especially.

Bomb the weapons sites with MOABs and Daisy Cutters, take over the oil fields, kill any locals who come near. How simple!!

OPEC is taunting us with this price. Why wait until we’re weaker?[/quote]

What makes you think having more oil will reduce the price? Oil/gas companies made record profits this year. The price of oil and gas rises because they know we won’t stop using it or conserve it. We should work that free market you’re so fond of and start buying hybrid cars, electric heaters and other non-or-limited-oil using products.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Hmmmm…$100 oil likely to cause another Great Depression…$100 oil likely to make dollar worth less and less…$100 oil dramatically decreasing American electorates’ standard of living…

I’m surprised we haven’t yet, in concert with our European allies (even Belgium), simply taken over the supply. Venezuela, Iran, especially.

Bomb the weapons sites with MOABs and Daisy Cutters, take over the oil fields, kill any locals who come near. How simple!!
[/quote]

Is this the “good fight” you’re constantly urging your teenaged students to sign up for? Wonderful.

Orion by what twisted logic do you think that the nineteenth century Iran has relevance to what is going on today? Noone from back then is still in a position of power or alive.

If we applied your logic to all other countries, the most obvious candidate that needs to be militarily destroyed would be Austria/Germany because of Hitler and the Nazi’s.