[quote]drfitness wrote:
…If you’ve actually read the bible, it’s the scariest book out there…much murder, rape, incest is in that ‘holy book’…enough for you to recognize there is no way in hell (yes…pun intended) that that book could be the work of a divine being!
[/quote]
[quote]drfitness wrote:
…just don’t cling on to the most immoral book ever printed and use it as your justification…
[/quote]
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Imagine where we would be with understanding the origins of the universe if so many people didnt shout “Sky Wizard poofed it into existence!”. Imagine how much more the non-SW folk could do if they didnt have to waste so much time arguing that we have no reason to think an invisible man created our universe on a whim.
[/quote]
You’re right. Particle physicists have only recently formed a multi national coalition using billions of dollars of equipment and human resources at the LHC trying to prove the existence of a Higgs boson, a theoretical sub atomic particle based on the Higgs mechanism, which hasn’t been proven yet, and can’t be without the proof of the existence of the Higgs boson.
Ironically enough, nicknamed the “God Particle”. But when they do find it (or not) they will be one step closer to understanding the origin of the universe.
If it weren’t for these stupid religions that have plagued human history they would be way ahead of this by now, and I’m sure you would be able to rest easily knowing that much more about the origins of the universe.
Of course you already knew that, right?
[/quote]
Yes. What exactly is your point here? That we are far along in our understanding of the universe? Great. It does nothing to alter or refute my point, which is that, without those stupid religions, we’d be farther.[/quote]
Prove it.
[/quote]
I could prove it, but I wont, because I want you to have faith.[/quote]
No, you can’t, and you are a terrible chess player.
Besides, I already have faith, and believe me- it has been tested by better than you.
[/quote]
Ok, you want me to “prove” the viewpoint that things would be different? How does one “prove” a hypothetical situation?
I could cite countless examples of religion slowing the progress of numerous fields. You’ll just come up with excuses as to why those things dont matter, or some other nonsense.
Also, now you want to bitch about proof? Go ask sky wizard for proof. He’s full of it.[/quote]
Oh, Ok. Now I understand. You are living under a non provable belief which you feel very strongly about.
Very interesting that you claim that people who don’t believe as you do are idiots, yet you yourself are doing the very same thing.
Checkmate![/quote]
LMAO.
This is like you saying that, if some play had gone differently, the other team would have won the superbowl. And me saying that, since you can’t “prove” this, you must respect my belief that the aliens are reading my thoughts.
Try very hard to understand that. Please.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Imagine where we would be with understanding the origins of the universe if so many people didnt shout “Sky Wizard poofed it into existence!”. Imagine how much more the non-SW folk could do if they didnt have to waste so much time arguing that we have no reason to think an invisible man created our universe on a whim.
[/quote]
You’re right. Particle physicists have only recently formed a multi national coalition using billions of dollars of equipment and human resources at the LHC trying to prove the existence of a Higgs boson, a theoretical sub atomic particle based on the Higgs mechanism, which hasn’t been proven yet, and can’t be without the proof of the existence of the Higgs boson.
Ironically enough, nicknamed the “God Particle”. But when they do find it (or not) they will be one step closer to understanding the origin of the universe.
If it weren’t for these stupid religions that have plagued human history they would be way ahead of this by now, and I’m sure you would be able to rest easily knowing that much more about the origins of the universe.
Of course you already knew that, right?
[/quote]
Yes. What exactly is your point here? That we are far along in our understanding of the universe? Great. It does nothing to alter or refute my point, which is that, without those stupid religions, we’d be farther.[/quote]
Prove it.
[/quote]
I could prove it, but I wont, because I want you to have faith.[/quote]
No, you can’t, and you are a terrible chess player.
Besides, I already have faith, and believe me- it has been tested by better than you.
[/quote]
Ok, you want me to “prove” the viewpoint that things would be different? How does one “prove” a hypothetical situation?
I could cite countless examples of religion slowing the progress of numerous fields. You’ll just come up with excuses as to why those things dont matter, or some other nonsense.
Also, now you want to bitch about proof? Go ask sky wizard for proof. He’s full of it.[/quote]
Oh, Ok. Now I understand. You are living under a non provable belief which you feel very strongly about.
Very interesting that you claim that people who don’t believe as you do are idiots, yet you yourself are doing the very same thing.
Checkmate![/quote]
LMAO.
This is like you saying that, if some play had gone differently, the other team would have won the superbowl. And me saying that, since you can’t “prove” this, you must respect my belief that the aliens are reading my thoughts.
Try very hard to understand that. Please. [/quote]
I think you are looking at it backwards. For someone that claims to cling to what is provable and mock those with unprovable beliefs the comparison is valid. Is it ridiculous to believe in unprovable things or not?
Good job trying the “Hey man, you have faith that the sidewalk wont swallow you when you walk on it! Thats, like, totally a matter of faith, so, like, you have to consider my belief that a wizard man is up in the sky watching me to be totally valid too!” Sky.
[quote]drfitness wrote:
Wow…I can’t believe people still think that there is a god…it does nothing but make people ignore their own intelligence and use the worst of all human attributes, faith.
Faith has got to be the biggest waste of time/energy there ever was…
“Prayer, the only time you can do absolutely nothing and feel like you’re doing something” - saw it somewhere
“If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocites” - Voltaire
“Faith means not wanting to know what it true” - Nietzche
“Religions are all alike…founded upon fables and mythologies” - Thomas Jefferson
“Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile” - Kurt Vonnegut
Get over it people…except the fact that god doesn’t exist, and if you want to be a good person, do it…just don’t cling on to the most immoral book ever printed and use it as your justification…
If you’ve actually read the bible, it’s the scariest book out there…much murder, rape, incest is in that ‘holy book’…enough for you to recognize there is no way in hell (yes…pun intended) that that book could be the work of a divine being!
Yes, I am waiting for some friendly religious responses 
[/quote]
Look, I’m an atheist… but I’m also an avid fan of properly using rhetorical devices to create effective arguments.
[quote]drfitness wrote:
Faith has got to be the biggest waste of time/energy there ever was…
[/quote]
I’m pretty sure faith isn’t THE WORST attribute of a human being, nor is it the most irrational.
I have faith that my girlfriend won’t cheat on me. I have faith that my stock portfolio won’t go down a zillion points tomorrow. I have faith that my professors grade my work by its quality and not by my stunning good looks. Faith, among other things lets me sleep at night.
I don’t KNOW that she won’t cheat on me. And I don’t KNOW that all the oil in the world won’t suddenly dry up causing financial collapse tomorrow.
So why can’t someone have faith in the existence and benevolence of a diety that they haven’t personally sat down and had tea with?
I think the biggest waste of time/energy might be…idk…those two or three extra minutes you spend on the toilet even after you’ve ‘done the deed.’
[quote]drfitness wrote:
“If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocites” - Voltaire
“Faith means not wanting to know what it true” - Nietzche
“Religions are all alike…founded upon fables and mythologies” - Thomas Jefferson
“Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile” - Kurt Vonnegut
[/quote]
I can post a similarly lengthy list of quotes by equally influential and dead people that would express a very different opinion.
[quote]drfitness wrote:
If you’ve actually read the bible, it’s the scariest book out there…much murder, rape, incest is in that ‘holy book’…enough for you to recognize there is no way in hell (yes…pun intended) that that book could be the work of a divine being!
[/quote]
I have read the majority of the New Testament, as well as all of the Quran. Both books mention rape, incest, murder, etc, and both books mention love, loyalty, faith, peace, hard work etc.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Imagine where we would be with understanding the origins of the universe if so many people didnt shout “Sky Wizard poofed it into existence!”. Imagine how much more the non-SW folk could do if they didnt have to waste so much time arguing that we have no reason to think an invisible man created our universe on a whim.
[/quote]
You’re right. Particle physicists have only recently formed a multi national coalition using billions of dollars of equipment and human resources at the LHC trying to prove the existence of a Higgs boson, a theoretical sub atomic particle based on the Higgs mechanism, which hasn’t been proven yet, and can’t be without the proof of the existence of the Higgs boson.
Ironically enough, nicknamed the “God Particle”. But when they do find it (or not) they will be one step closer to understanding the origin of the universe.
If it weren’t for these stupid religions that have plagued human history they would be way ahead of this by now, and I’m sure you would be able to rest easily knowing that much more about the origins of the universe.
Of course you already knew that, right?
[/quote]
Yes. What exactly is your point here? That we are far along in our understanding of the universe? Great. It does nothing to alter or refute my point, which is that, without those stupid religions, we’d be farther.[/quote]
Prove it.
[/quote]
I could prove it, but I wont, because I want you to have faith.[/quote]
No, you can’t, and you are a terrible chess player.
Besides, I already have faith, and believe me- it has been tested by better than you.
[/quote]
Ok, you want me to “prove” the viewpoint that things would be different? How does one “prove” a hypothetical situation?
I could cite countless examples of religion slowing the progress of numerous fields. You’ll just come up with excuses as to why those things dont matter, or some other nonsense.
Also, now you want to bitch about proof? Go ask sky wizard for proof. He’s full of it.[/quote]
Oh, Ok. Now I understand. You are living under a non provable belief which you feel very strongly about.
Very interesting that you claim that people who don’t believe as you do are idiots, yet you yourself are doing the very same thing.
Checkmate![/quote]
LMAO.
This is like you saying that, if some play had gone differently, the other team would have won the superbowl. And me saying that, since you can’t “prove” this, you must respect my belief that the aliens are reading my thoughts.
Try very hard to understand that. Please. [/quote]
I think you are looking at it backwards. For someone that claims to cling to what is provable and mock those with unprovable beliefs the comparison is valid. Is it ridiculous to believe in unprovable things or not? [/quote]
It is ridiculous to believe in things which, IF TRUE, would show a great deal of evidence and be easily provable BUT show no evidence and remain unproven.
Its impossible to “prove” a claim or belief that “If X had been different, Y would have happened.” Comparing that to belief in Sky Wizard is ridiculous.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Good job trying the “Hey man, you have faith that the sidewalk wont swallow you when you walk on it! Thats, like, totally a matter of faith, so, like, you have to consider my belief that a wizard man is up in the sky watching me to be totally valid too!” Sky.[/quote]
No, who says you exist to be swallowed up in the first place? there are about a million unprovable things in that one statement.
[quote]akram.mohamed wrote:
[quote]drfitness wrote:
Wow…I can’t believe people still think that there is a god…it does nothing but make people ignore their own intelligence and use the worst of all human attributes, faith.
Faith has got to be the biggest waste of time/energy there ever was…
“Prayer, the only time you can do absolutely nothing and feel like you’re doing something” - saw it somewhere
“If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocites” - Voltaire
“Faith means not wanting to know what it true” - Nietzche
“Religions are all alike…founded upon fables and mythologies” - Thomas Jefferson
“Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile” - Kurt Vonnegut
Get over it people…except the fact that god doesn’t exist, and if you want to be a good person, do it…just don’t cling on to the most immoral book ever printed and use it as your justification…
If you’ve actually read the bible, it’s the scariest book out there…much murder, rape, incest is in that ‘holy book’…enough for you to recognize there is no way in hell (yes…pun intended) that that book could be the work of a divine being!
Yes, I am waiting for some friendly religious responses
[/quote]
Look, I’m an atheist… but I’m also an avid fan of properly using rhetorical devices to create effective arguments.
[quote]drfitness wrote:
Faith has got to be the biggest waste of time/energy there ever was…
[/quote]
I’m pretty sure faith isn’t THE WORST attribute of a human being, nor is it the most irrational.
I have faith that my girlfriend won’t cheat on me. I have faith that my stock portfolio won’t go down a zillion points tomorrow. I have faith that my professors grade my work by its quality and not by my stunning good looks. Faith, among other things lets me sleep at night.
I don’t KNOW that she won’t cheat on me. And I don’t KNOW that all the oil in the world won’t suddenly dry up causing financial collapse tomorrow.
So why can’t someone have faith in the existence and benevolence of a diety that they haven’t personally sat down and had tea with?
I think the biggest waste of time/energy might be…idk…those two or three extra minutes you spend on the toilet even after you’ve ‘done the deed.’
[quote]drfitness wrote:
“If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocites” - Voltaire
“Faith means not wanting to know what it true” - Nietzche
“Religions are all alike…founded upon fables and mythologies” - Thomas Jefferson
“Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile” - Kurt Vonnegut
[/quote]
I can post a similarly lengthy list of quotes by equally influential and dead people that would express a very different opinion.
[quote]drfitness wrote:
If you’ve actually read the bible, it’s the scariest book out there…much murder, rape, incest is in that ‘holy book’…enough for you to recognize there is no way in hell (yes…pun intended) that that book could be the work of a divine being!
[/quote]
I have read the majority of the New Testament, as well as all of the Quran. Both books mention rape, incest, murder, etc, and both books mention love, loyalty, faith, peace, hard work etc.
[/quote]
Simmer down…and what you’re describing is trust, not faith in the context of faith like a believer has faith, blindly accepting things that have no basis in reality. You trust those things won’t happen because your past experiences have given you a reason to.
And you missed my point. Sure those books try and redeem themselves by saying things like love, peace, etc…but a book that also speaks of genocide, killing babies, etc. is in no way a ‘divine’ book inspired by a ‘loving god’…it’s also surprising that you sent me a link to a pedophile website you sick fuck!!
Just so everyone that reads this knows…akram.mohamed actually visits PEDOPHILE websites and then tries to get other people to go to them…you are one sick fucker!!!
Wait…it’s in those holy books you’re defending, so it just stands to figure that that’s what you’re into I guess…
And I don’t for a minute believe that you’re an athiest…
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m just curious, who here has even read the bible?[/quote]Raises hand,
On another note? Boy did angry chicken ever name himself appropriately.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Good job trying the “Hey man, you have faith that the sidewalk wont swallow you when you walk on it! Thats, like, totally a matter of faith, so, like, you have to consider my belief that a wizard man is up in the sky watching me to be totally valid too!” Sky.[/quote]
No, who says you exist to be swallowed up in the first place? there are about a million unprovable things in that one statement.[/quote]
This shit again?
The bullshit that “Nothing can be proven, everything is a matter of faith” is fucking stupid. Stop it. Be better than that.
You guys either totally misunderstand me or just like to attack strawmen.
Capped never said “Faith is stupid.”
Capped said “Faith in stupid things is stupid”
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Oh shit. Both sides of the “evolution proves things about god” argument are beyond retarded.[/quote]
It doesn’t prove anything about God. It does, however, reduce the story of Adam and Eve to a fairy tale with only allegorical worth at best.
The point is that, regardless of what the theory of evolution says about God’s nature or existence, it has the support of the scientific community. To deny evolution is to swim against an overwhelmingly intelligent and informed current.[/quote]
No no no no. If you accept the possibility of a creator as something outside the bounds of the physical universe, it doesn’t do anything to the story of adam and eve. If something exists that brought all the universe into being, it is entirely bogus to claim that the study of the boundaries of the universe can say anything about that creation.
Creation happening at the big bang or yesterday are logically equivalent. It doesn’t make it more plausible longer ago or less plausible the more recent.
A creation is by definition outside of the boundaries of science, if you are going to discuss it, you must accept that premise. If you aren’t accepting that premise (which you aren’t) then you aren’t discussing the creation story of the Bible or any other creation story.
They are entirely separate things.[/quote]
No. Evolution says nothing about the creation of the Universe. Nothing. The creation of the universe has no bearing on evolution whatsoever. You brought that into the argument but it doesn’t belong there at all. I believe in a creator (of matter) and I believe in evolution. They are compatible.
Evolution and the story of Adam and Eve, however, are mutually exclusive. They both explain how MAN came into being, and they give conflicting accounts which cannot in any way be reconciled.
In Genesis, God created Man from dust and Woman from his rib. In one shot. Not monkeys that transformed into men. Dust----> Man. Rib-----> Woman.
Evolution directly contradicts this. Directly.
Taken literally, the two are mutually exclusive.[/quote]
Start a new thread, and I will respond to this.[/quote]
Lord have mercy. When are people going to learn? I unno.
Uh, the Lord still does communicate both “nationally” and “personally” the last time was around Vatican II (I’m not aware of any apparitions, or prophets since then) and personally it happens all the time.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
You guys either totally misunderstand me or just like to attack strawmen.
Capped never said “Faith is stupid.”
Capped said “Faith in stupid things is stupid”
[/quote]
And, how do we decide what is stupid things?
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
You guys either totally misunderstand me or just like to attack strawmen.
Capped never said “Faith is stupid.”
Capped said “Faith in stupid things is stupid”
[/quote]
This is a big enough hole. I’m satisfied with you admitting there is nothing wrong with faith, you just don’t like what some people have faith in.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
You guys either totally misunderstand me or just like to attack strawmen.
Capped never said “Faith is stupid.”
Capped said “Faith in stupid things is stupid”
[/quote]
This is a big enough hole. I’m satisfied with you admitting there is nothing wrong with faith, you just don’t like what some people have faith in.[/quote]
Oh, theres nothing wrong with faith.
Theres something wrong with people (you) thinking really fucking stupid things and mislabeling it “faith”.
Faith that your girlfriend is loyal when shes never given you reason to doubt her = good.
“Faith” that your girlfriend is loyal when she lists her status as “single” on facebook, and she has several recent pictures up of her kissing other guys, and she broke up with you three years ago = really fucking stupid.
“Faith” in sky wizard is like the second example, not the first.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
You guys either totally misunderstand me or just like to attack strawmen.
Capped never said “Faith is stupid.”
Capped said “Faith in stupid things is stupid”
[/quote]
And, how do we decide what is stupid things?[/quote]
Fallen sinful man logic.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
You guys either totally misunderstand me or just like to attack strawmen.
Capped never said “Faith is stupid.”
Capped said “Faith in stupid things is stupid”
[/quote]
This is a big enough hole. I’m satisfied with you admitting there is nothing wrong with faith, you just don’t like what some people have faith in.[/quote]
Oh, theres nothing wrong with faith.
Theres something wrong with people (you) thinking really fucking stupid things and mislabeling it “faith”.
Faith that your girlfriend is loyal when shes never given you reason to doubt her = good.
“Faith” that your girlfriend is loyal when she lists her status as “single” on facebook, and she has several recent pictures up of her kissing other guys, and she broke up with you three years ago = really fucking stupid.
“Faith” in sky wizard is like the second example, not the first.[/quote]
What about faith that you exist of your own accord?
The only way to not have “stupid faith” is to have no beliefs at all about the nature of existence.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
You guys either totally misunderstand me or just like to attack strawmen.
Capped never said “Faith is stupid.”
Capped said “Faith in stupid things is stupid”
[/quote]
This is a big enough hole. I’m satisfied with you admitting there is nothing wrong with faith, you just don’t like what some people have faith in.[/quote]
Oh, theres nothing wrong with faith.
Theres something wrong with people (you) thinking really fucking stupid things and mislabeling it “faith”.
Faith that your girlfriend is loyal when shes never given you reason to doubt her = good.
“Faith” that your girlfriend is loyal when she lists her status as “single” on facebook, and she has several recent pictures up of her kissing other guys, and she broke up with you three years ago = really fucking stupid.
“Faith” in sky wizard is like the second example, not the first.[/quote]
What about faith that you exist of your own accord?
The only way to not have “stupid faith” is to have no beliefs at all about the nature of existence.[/quote]
Please, stop.
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
You guys either totally misunderstand me or just like to attack strawmen.
Capped never said “Faith is stupid.”
Capped said “Faith in stupid things is stupid”
[/quote]
This is a big enough hole. I’m satisfied with you admitting there is nothing wrong with faith, you just don’t like what some people have faith in.[/quote]
Oh, theres nothing wrong with faith.
Theres something wrong with people (you) thinking really fucking stupid things and mislabeling it “faith”.
Faith that your girlfriend is loyal when shes never given you reason to doubt her = good.
“Faith” that your girlfriend is loyal when she lists her status as “single” on facebook, and she has several recent pictures up of her kissing other guys, and she broke up with you three years ago = really fucking stupid.
“Faith” in sky wizard is like the second example, not the first.[/quote]
What about faith that you exist of your own accord?
The only way to not have “stupid faith” is to have no beliefs at all about the nature of existence.[/quote]
Please, stop. [/quote]
Truth hurts huh?