Why Do Men Get Married These Days?

Off Topic
622

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
“You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid.” -Franz Kafka

I’m inclined to agree with Franz. [/quote]

You would like to buy a house. It’s the American Dream, and you think it is a good one. You know quite a few people who have purchased houses that ultimately fell down or had major problems. You aren’t particularly handy, you don’t have money to pay someone else to do repairs or major remodeling, and you lack the knowledge necessary to pick a house that is structurally sound.

Do you still buy a house, or do you find alternative living arrangements?[/quote]

You know the answer to that. I do. Because I believe that home ownership offers benefits that go well beyond its fiscal superiority over renting, and I want those very badly. To me there’s a deep satisfaction in pride of ownership. If the thing falls down, I’ll simply dust myself off, take some time to regroup financially and emotionally, and try again. The world won’t end.
[/quote]

You also have a much higher tolerance for financial risk than I do, so I’m not sure how to address that.

623

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
Just ask around for a good home inspector. Never buy a house without an inspection.

You are a smart guy, you can learn to fix things.
[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or extending the metaphor.

In terms of your literal point, finding a good home inspector is non-trivial. They can’t see under walls, and most people don’t know if they had a bad home inspector until something goes wrong in the house and whoever repairs it points out that the defect should have been caught in an inspection. That said, in my part of the world, houses are not crumbling all around. I imagine that if there were we’d see lots of new policies from lending institutions and insurance companies, if not legislation.

In terms of the metaphorical point, who would be the relationship equivalent to a home inspector? I’m aware that some people do premarital counseling, but my feeling is that it is even more hit-and-miss than home inspection. And they don’t give you a nice, printed report at the end.

624

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You’re right, Lanky. I understand.

I would say more but not going to air any more dirty laundry.[/quote]

Yeah, just to make sure, I’m not commenting on your situation specifically. I just know the last thing the courts want is to wade through all the dirty details of a marriage through he said/she said.

I’m not even sure what the right answer is, I just know there are no perfect solutions and a lot of bad options.

625

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You’re right, Lanky. I understand.

I would say more but not going to air any more dirty laundry.[/quote]

Yeah, just to make sure, I’m not commenting on your situation specifically. I just know the last thing the courts want is to wade through all the dirty details of a marriage through he said/she said.

I’m not even sure what the right answer is, I just know there are no perfect solutions and a lot of bad options. [/quote]

It certainly gets trickier when you’re talking about a long term partnership of twenty or thirty years, where one spouse forwent developing his or her career to raise children or make life more comfortable for the spouse who made the money. And I’m not even sure that one bad act, even if it is grounds for divorce, is also grounds to lose equity in the marriage. Just speaking in general, not regarding push’s situation.

626

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
Just ask around for a good home inspector. Never buy a house without an inspection.

You are a smart guy, you can learn to fix things.
[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or extending the metaphor.

In terms of your literal point, finding a good home inspector is non-trivial. They can’t see under walls, and most people don’t know if they had a bad home inspector until something goes wrong in the house and whoever repairs it points out that the defect should have been caught in an inspection. That said, in my part of the world, houses are not crumbling all around. I imagine that if there were we’d see lots of new policies from lending institutions and insurance companies, if not legislation.

In terms of the metaphorical point, who would be the relationship equivalent to a home inspector? I’m aware that some people do premarital counseling, but my feeling is that it is even more hit-and-miss than home inspection. And they don’t give you a nice, printed report at the end.[/quote]

In lines with extending the metaphor, and in the literal sense, I basically agree with what he said.

You learn as much as you can up front before you’re at all locked into something, and you gain the experience and education to fix the problems you can (and find the right places for assistance when you can’t). Half of that is looking at things that fail and making sure you avoid those, and the other half is knowing what you’re looking for and learning how to maintain it.

Just because most people don’t feel they “should have to” be handy, or because many men don’t feel they “should have to” understand women, or how well a relationship can handle internal or external stress, doesn’t really change the fact that you’ll be better off in general if you do know those things. I’m not sure negligence is the right word, but it’s along those lines.

627

[quote]LoRez wrote:
In lines with extending the metaphor, and in the literal sense, I basically agree with what he said.[/quote]

I agree that you should get a home inspector if you want to buy a home. I wasn’t sufficiently clear about that.

[quote]
You learn as much as you can up front before you’re at all locked into something, and you gain the experience and education to fix the problems you can (and find the right places for assistance when you can’t). Half of that is looking at things that fail and making sure you avoid those, and the other half is knowing what you’re looking for and learning how to maintain it.

Just because most people don’t feel they “should have to” be handy, or because many men don’t feel they “should have to” understand women, or how well a relationship can handle internal or external stress, doesn’t really change the fact that you’ll be better off in general if you do know those things. I’m not sure negligence is the right word, but it’s along those lines.[/quote]

My point was in terms of structural or major issues. Being able to put in a ceiling fan is one thing, replacing all the electrical wiring in an existing home is another. Pouring a concrete pad is one thing, fixing damage to your foundation is another. The analogy ultimately fails because everyone has to live somewhere, but no one in the US has to marry. Housing is a need, marriage (or even a romantic relationship) is not.

At any rate, the ideal case is often different from your own specific starting point. If I wake up at twenty, realizing that I have no idea what I should want in a woman and no competence in picking, getting, and keeping a partner, I have time to meet a lot of people and attempt to develop those skills to the extent that they are skills. If I wake up at 35 and realize the same things, I don’t have that time, unless I’m fairly flexible about certain parameters of a marriage.

If I wake up at 35 not knowing how to patch a hole in my wall, I can learn how; but I also might decide that in this phase of my life, it’s easier to pay someone to do it.

I should also add that I have smart friends who evidently made suboptimal choices of partners; it isn’t a trivial exercise.

628

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:
…Personally, I have no confidence in my own ability to pick someone I would not ultimately regret or resent.
[/quote]

Yikes.[/quote]

I’m not sure what I should take from that “yikes.”

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Nephorm, is that what kept you from gettin’ with that Irish (German?) chick I set you up with online so many years ago?[/quote]

I really didn’t take that exchange seriously.

630

[quote]pushharder wrote:
… she is not assisting me in any way in the pursuit and capture of those hard-earned dollars…[/quote]

This is a more important thing than most pro-alimoney folks realize. For some reason the same sort of people who will point at a career and insist you couldn’t have / didn’t build without her insist that you should have no problems maintaining it without her. Not to mention the whole inequality of her being able to opt out of her role as a house wife whenever she wants, while you are required to continue your roll as the provider for as long as the court sees fit. Shits slavery.

631

[quote]Broncoandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
… she is not assisting me in any way in the pursuit and capture of those hard-earned dollars…[/quote]

This is a more important thing than most pro-alimoney folks realize. For some reason the same sort of people who will point at a career and insist you couldn’t have / didn’t build without her insist that you should have no problems maintaining it without her. Not to mention the whole inequality of her being able to opt out of her role as a house wife whenever she wants, while you are required to continue your roll as the provider for as long as the court sees fit. Shits slavery.[/quote]

Valid point, for sure. No easy answers.

633

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
“You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid.” -Franz Kafka

I’m inclined to agree with Franz. [/quote]

You would like to buy a house. It’s the American Dream, and you think it is a good one. You know quite a few people who have purchased houses that ultimately fell down or had major problems. You aren’t particularly handy, you don’t have money to pay someone else to do repairs or major remodeling, and you lack the knowledge necessary to pick a house that is structurally sound.

Do you still buy a house, or do you find alternative living arrangements?[/quote]

Just ask around for a good home inspector. Never buy a house without an inspection.

You are a smart guy, you can learn to fix things.
[/quote]

Women should have an odometer and their N should be printed on their forehead.

In scarlet letters.

634

[quote]orion wrote:
Women should have an odometer and their N should be printed on their forehead.

In scarlet letters. [/quote]

What about yours?

635

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Women should have an odometer and their N should be printed on their forehead.

In scarlet letters. [/quote]

What about yours?[/quote]

I dont care.

Do pros count?

636

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Women should have an odometer and their N should be printed on their forehead.

In scarlet letters. [/quote]

What about yours?[/quote]

I dont care.

Do pros count?[/quote]

If they would count for the women, yes.

637

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Women should have an odometer and their N should be printed on their forehead.

In scarlet letters. [/quote]

What about yours?[/quote]

I dont care.

Do pros count?[/quote]

If they would count for the women, yes.[/quote]

I have no opinion when it comes to this, pay for play seems to be rare when it comes to women?

Its the norm when it comes to men.

638

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]Broncoandy wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
… she is not assisting me in any way in the pursuit and capture of those hard-earned dollars…[/quote]

This is a more important thing than most pro-alimoney folks realize. For some reason the same sort of people who will point at a career and insist you couldn’t have / didn’t build without her insist that you should have no problems maintaining it without her. Not to mention the whole inequality of her being able to opt out of her role as a house wife whenever she wants, while you are required to continue your roll as the provider for as long as the court sees fit. Shits slavery.[/quote]

Valid point, for sure. No easy answers. [/quote]

It is a valid point.

Me: “Providing” Before, During and After Divorce

Her: “Providing” Before.

The equity in that? Dunno.[/quote]

I also take issue with the idea that alimony recipients “sacrificed” their career so they could stay home with the kids (or to watch Opera and eat bonbons)and needs to be compensated, while the breadwinner sacrifices time at home with his kids, took on whatever occupational health problems come with his field, etc… to go and win the bread and receives nothing in compensation, because clearly he was the lucky one to be toiling away while she was at home pushing the kids on the swing.

Being a stay at home mom / house wife is it’s own reward. They don’t need to be comped for their careers after divorce. They get compensation every single day they’re not at work, and should be nothing but grateful after the fact.

639

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You’re right, Lanky. I understand.

I would say more but not going to air any more dirty laundry.[/quote]

Yeah, just to make sure, I’m not commenting on your situation specifically. I just know the last thing the courts want is to wade through all the dirty details of a marriage through he said/she said.

I’m not even sure what the right answer is, I just know there are no perfect solutions and a lot of bad options. [/quote]

It certainly gets trickier when you’re talking about a long term partnership of twenty or thirty years, where one spouse forwent developing his or her career to raise children or make life more comfortable for the spouse who made the money. And I’m not even sure that one bad act, even if it is grounds for divorce, is also grounds to lose equity in the marriage. Just speaking in general, not regarding push’s situation.[/quote]

Not that I’m disagreeing with you here, but I think it is much less tricky in fact it’s crystal clear that the scenario you describe is why and rightfully so, why alimony exists in the first place. Infidelity is irrelevant other than perhaps something to consider in judging the character of a person while determining custody if kids are still in the picture.

640

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Women should have an odometer and their N should be printed on their forehead.

In scarlet letters. [/quote]

What about yours?[/quote]

He already gives off a scent that sends good women running, so the letter in not needed.