Why Do Men Get Married These Days?

Off Topic
601

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
In considering your mansion metaphor it occurs to me that my perspective would be different in that I see life itself as the mansion. Having someone else there with you to caretake it allows both the burden and the joy to be shared. It reduces the negative and enhances the positive.

Ideally, that is. [/quote]

Yes, ideally. In the ideal situation, you both have work that fulfills you. You are both in good health. Financial burdens are eased because two people can live more cheaply together than separately. You can split chores and obligations. You enjoy each others’ company and the time you spend together is more enjoyable than it would be alone. You are attracted to one another and have matched libidos. You respect and trust each other, and that respect and trust is well-founded.

There are a lot of moving parts, and marriage, as an institution, does not contemplate the ideal case. That’s why the vows say “for richer and poorer” and “in sickness and in health;” because marriage is intended for mutual support in the worst of circumstances. Unfortunately, many of those bad circumstances find their genesis in the marriage itself. One or both people develop depression, or lose motivation, or put on weight, or have a sudden drop of libido, or can’t find work. You have a child, and the romantic relationship is drained of passion. You grow apart. You start to resent each other.

A friend of mine dated a woman for two years. He thought she was great. She got pregnant, and he proposed. After she gave birth, the crazy came out. He asked her about her change in behavior, and she explicitly told him that she was trying to maintain normalcy while dating him, but couldn’t continue to keep up the pretense. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I don’t think it was intentional deception on her part - she honestly intended to stay the way she was. And I don’t know that the issue was specifically related to postpartum problems, but more the stress of daily living and family life (I’m sure he contributes more to her craziness than he is willing to admit).

The point is that there are many, many ways for a marriage to go wrong. Some of the problems can be avoided by making good decisions about whom to marry. The people who make those decisions are not usually in the best position to make them. Everyone - especially people who have been married a long time - has their rubrics for determining suitable life partners. Personally, I have no confidence in my own ability to pick someone I would not ultimately regret or resent.

602

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
In considering your mansion metaphor it occurs to me that my perspective would be different in that I see life itself as the mansion. Having someone else there with you to caretake it allows both the burden and the joy to be shared. It reduces the negative and enhances the positive.

Ideally, that is. [/quote]

Yes, ideally. In the ideal situation, you both have work that fulfills you. You are both in good health. Financial burdens are eased because two people can live more cheaply together than separately. You can split chores and obligations. You enjoy each others’ company and the time you spend together is more enjoyable than it would be alone. You are attracted to one another and have matched libidos. You respect and trust each other, and that respect and trust is well-founded.

There are a lot of moving parts, and marriage, as an institution, does not contemplate the ideal case. That’s why the vows say “for richer and poorer” and “in sickness and in health;” because marriage is intended for mutual support in the worst of circumstances. Unfortunately, many of those bad circumstances find their genesis in the marriage itself. One or both people develop depression, or lose motivation, or put on weight, or have a sudden drop of libido, or can’t find work. You have a child, and the romantic relationship is drained of passion. You grow apart. You start to resent each other.

A friend of mine dated a woman for two years. He thought she was great. She got pregnant, and he proposed. After she gave birth, the crazy came out. He asked her about her change in behavior, and she explicitly told him that she was trying to maintain normalcy while dating him, but couldn’t continue to keep up the pretense. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I don’t think it was intentional deception on her part - she honestly intended to stay the way she was. And I don’t know that the issue was specifically related to postpartum problems, but more the stress of daily living and family life (I’m sure he contributes more to her craziness than he is willing to admit).

The point is that there are many, many ways for a marriage to go wrong. Some of the problems can be avoided by making good decisions about whom to marry. The people who make those decisions are not usually in the best position to make them. Everyone - especially people who have been married a long time - has their rubrics for determining suitable life partners. Personally, I have no confidence in my own ability to pick someone I would not ultimately regret or resent.
[/quote]

“You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid.” -Franz Kafka

I’m inclined to agree with Franz.

605

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
“You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid.” -Franz Kafka

I’m inclined to agree with Franz. [/quote]

You would like to buy a house. It’s the American Dream, and you think it is a good one. You know quite a few people who have purchased houses that ultimately fell down or had major problems. You aren’t particularly handy, you don’t have money to pay someone else to do repairs or major remodeling, and you lack the knowledge necessary to pick a house that is structurally sound.

Do you still buy a house, or do you find alternative living arrangements?

607

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
“You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid.” -Franz Kafka

I’m inclined to agree with Franz. [/quote]

You would like to buy a house. It’s the American Dream, and you think it is a good one. You know quite a few people who have purchased houses that ultimately fell down or had major problems. You aren’t particularly handy, you don’t have money to pay someone else to do repairs or major remodeling, and you lack the knowledge necessary to pick a house that is structurally sound.

Do you still buy a house, or do you find alternative living arrangements?[/quote]

You buy a doublewide.[/quote]

You give your son/grandson a shovel and tell him to dig his own room.

608

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You buy a doublewide.[/quote]

I guess if you’re into that…

Btw, I would also like to hear your story, push.

610

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You buy a doublewide.[/quote]

I guess if you’re into that…

[/quote]

Who wouldn’t???

Short brief Cliff Notes version without all of the usual, grand PushProse:

After splitting assets (which I agree is fair):

Me to ex’s atty: why should I have to pay $101,207,009,115.13 to ex over so many years? That’s money I earn in the future – post-divorce – and she is not assisting me in any way in the pursuit and capture of those hard-earned dollars? (no child support deal going on, kids are grown)

Ex’s attorney: “Because she helped you out all those years while you two were married!”

Me: “And I helped her out all those years as well! We’re even in that regard.”

Ex’s atty: [sneeringly] *“Welcome to Divorce World.” [wheels and walks away with smile on her face]

*exact quote

Now remember, you did not hear this indirectly from misogny.org but vis-a-vis yours truly. Straight from ye ol’ hoss’s mouth.[/quote]

No.

Its all mine I tell you, MINE!!!

My precious…

Also, mine…

611

Plus, If I pay for poonany, I would like to know the price in advance, which is something every decent working girl should be able to do.

Truth in advertising, its really all I am asking for.

612

To pay for pussy I have no access too?

Wut?

613

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Now remember, you did not hear this indirectly from misogny.org but vis-a-vis yours truly. Straight from ye ol’ hoss’s mouth.[/quote]

I’m sorry about that, and I’m sorry that your marriage didn’t work out.

614

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You buy a doublewide.[/quote]

I guess if you’re into that…

[/quote]

Who wouldn’t???

Short brief Cliff Notes version without all of the usual, grand PushProse:

After splitting assets (which I agree is fair):

Me to ex’s atty: why should I have to pay $101,207,009,115.13 to ex over so many years? That’s money I earn in the future – post-divorce – and she is not assisting me in any way in the pursuit and capture of those hard-earned dollars? (no child support deal going on, kids are grown)

Ex’s attorney: “Because she helped you out all those years while you two were married!”

Me: “And I helped her out all those years as well! We’re even in that regard.”

Ex’s atty: [sneeringly] *“Welcome to Divorce World.” [wheels and walks away with smile on her face]

*exact quote

Now remember, you did not hear this indirectly from misogny.org but vis-a-vis yours truly. Straight from ye ol’ hoss’s mouth.[/quote]

I think context is everything.

I don’t know much about your specific situation, but I believe the general thinking is that your career was built by you and your wife. And if your wife earns less money than you at divorce, there is a presumption that she sacrificed for you to be able to earn more. Therefore she would be partially responsible for your increased earnings in later years.

There are some instances in which this is true and some in which it is not true, I’m sure.

615

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You buy a doublewide.[/quote]

I guess if you’re into that…

[/quote]

Who wouldn’t???

Short brief Cliff Notes version without all of the usual, grand PushProse:

After splitting assets (which I agree is fair):

Me to ex’s atty: why should I have to pay $101,207,009,115.13 to ex over so many years? That’s money I earn in the future – post-divorce – and she is not assisting me in any way in the pursuit and capture of those hard-earned dollars? (no child support deal going on, kids are grown)

Ex’s attorney: “Because she helped you out all those years while you two were married!”

Me: “And I helped her out all those years as well! We’re even in that regard.”

Ex’s atty: [sneeringly] *“Welcome to Divorce World.” [wheels and walks away with smile on her face]

*exact quote

Now remember, you did not hear this indirectly from misogny.org but vis-a-vis yours truly. Straight from ye ol’ hoss’s mouth.[/quote]

I think context is everything.

I don’t know much about your specific situation, but I believe the general thinking is that your career was built by you and your wife. And if your wife earns less money than you at divorce, there is a presumption that she sacrificed for you to be able to earn more. Therefore she would be partially responsible for your increased earnings in later years.

There are some instances in which this is true and some in which it is not true, I’m sure.
[/quote]

What I don’t get is, wouldn’t the person who earns more also be entitled to some of the income the lesser earning spouse makes in the future as well? By the logic of that argument, both people helped each other out to get to where they were, both likely sacrificed, and therefore both deserve part of the income of the other person. I don’t see how only one party is entitled to the others income.

Unless they “deduct” that amount from what the higher earning spouse owes. Which still seems off to me.

616

[quote]staystrong wrote:

Unless they “deduct” that amount from what the higher earning spouse owes. Which still seems off to me. [/quote]

I believe they do that. No point in higher earning spouse paying $1k/month to the lower earning spouse only to have the lower earning spouse pay $500/month right back to the higher earning spouse.

I’m not an expert, but I think these discussions usually lose site of the fact that everything built while married is considering a joint asset. Including careers.

I won’t even go as far as saying it’s right. But that’s how the courts look at it.

617

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
“You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid.” -Franz Kafka

I’m inclined to agree with Franz. [/quote]

You would like to buy a house. It’s the American Dream, and you think it is a good one. You know quite a few people who have purchased houses that ultimately fell down or had major problems. You aren’t particularly handy, you don’t have money to pay someone else to do repairs or major remodeling, and you lack the knowledge necessary to pick a house that is structurally sound.

Do you still buy a house, or do you find alternative living arrangements?[/quote]

You know the answer to that. I do. Because I believe that home ownership offers benefits that go well beyond its fiscal superiority over renting, and I want those very badly. To me there’s a deep satisfaction in pride of ownership. If the thing falls down, I’ll simply dust myself off, take some time to regroup financially and emotionally, and try again. The world won’t end.

618

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
“You can hold yourself back from the sufferings of the world, that is something you are free to do and it accords with your nature, but perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could avoid.” -Franz Kafka

I’m inclined to agree with Franz. [/quote]

You would like to buy a house. It’s the American Dream, and you think it is a good one. You know quite a few people who have purchased houses that ultimately fell down or had major problems. You aren’t particularly handy, you don’t have money to pay someone else to do repairs or major remodeling, and you lack the knowledge necessary to pick a house that is structurally sound.

Do you still buy a house, or do you find alternative living arrangements?[/quote]

Just ask around for a good home inspector. Never buy a house without an inspection.

You are a smart guy, you can learn to fix things.

619

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You buy a doublewide.[/quote]

I guess if you’re into that…

[/quote]

Who wouldn’t???

Short brief Cliff Notes version without all of the usual, grand PushProse:

After splitting assets (which I agree is fair):

Me to ex’s atty: why should I have to pay $101,207,009,115.13 to ex over so many years? That’s money I earn in the future – post-divorce – and she is not assisting me in any way in the pursuit and capture of those hard-earned dollars? (no child support deal going on, kids are grown)

Ex’s attorney: “Because she helped you out all those years while you two were married!”

Me: “And I helped her out all those years as well! We’re even in that regard.”

Ex’s atty: [sneeringly] *“Welcome to Divorce World.” [wheels and walks away with smile on her face]

*exact quote
[/quote]

I agree with Lanky that context is everything. To me this would be fair if not for the infidelity that ended the marriage. I believe divorce settlements should be influenced by factors like cheating.

620

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You buy a doublewide.[/quote]

I guess if you’re into that…

[/quote]

Who wouldn’t???

Short brief Cliff Notes version without all of the usual, grand PushProse:

After splitting assets (which I agree is fair):

Me to ex’s atty: why should I have to pay $101,207,009,115.13 to ex over so many years? That’s money I earn in the future – post-divorce – and she is not assisting me in any way in the pursuit and capture of those hard-earned dollars? (no child support deal going on, kids are grown)

Ex’s attorney: “Because she helped you out all those years while you two were married!”

Me: “And I helped her out all those years as well! We’re even in that regard.”

Ex’s atty: [sneeringly] *“Welcome to Divorce World.” [wheels and walks away with smile on her face]

*exact quote
[/quote]

I agree with Lanky that context is everything. To me this would be fair if not for the infidelity that ended the marriage. I believe divorce settlements should be influenced by factors like cheating. [/quote]

Even that gets tricky. What if the infidelity was caused by a total lack of attention, emotional unavailability, verbal abuse, physical abuse, etc.?

At what point do you draw the line and say “infidelity is worse than all of these things the other spouse did.” And at a certain point it becomes a he said/she said of what the marriage was really like.

You think it makes sense for the courts to dig into all of those detail in every case? Lawyers would be a lot richer, both the men and the women would be a lot poorer.