This is but a transplant of the whiny and profoundly ignominious victim-culture of far-Left feminism. The roots took and the thing is growing beautifully. If only the fruit didn’t have the bitter essence of lonely onanism under dim lights.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
onanism[/quote]
Had to look that one up, well hello there!!
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
onanism[/quote]
Had to look that one up, well hello there!![/quote]
Unfortunately, though it’s most useful as I’ve meant it here – simply to mean “masturbation” – the original story was more about the pull-out (and the attendant dereliction of duty) than self-abuse.
Still, it’s a great word!
Note that the U.S./Canada/Mexico superstate in Infinite Jest is called the Organization of North American Nations, or O.N.A.N.
^Lol too funny.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Thanks for confirming. [/quote]
you’re welcome [/quote]
"2. The agreement was coerced, signed under duress or signed without mental capacity.
Coersion or duress can be extremely difficult to prove, and, as with many aspects of divorce law, different states have different standards for what it means to have been coerced into an agreement."
Lol…
“Still, it is not unheard of for a prenup to be thrown out on this basis.”
-So basically it’s unheard of…[/quote]
Note also that the article described the event of tossing out the prenup as basically shocking.
Look, there’s no such thing as a bullet proof document in business or marriage. Documents are not created or enforced in a vacuum and things the parties do pre and post-contract formation can impact a contract’s validity or the way it is enforced. In business if two parties sign an agreement and then consistently and over an ongoing course of conduct act in a manner that is inconsistent with the contract, that can be grounds to modify or vary the written terms, for example. Or if one party engages in fraud to induce formation, a contract can be voided. But to suggest that there is no value in having a prenup–or that in most jurisdictions even properly drafted prenups signed by represented parties are routinely tossed aside–is simply wrong. Big companies sign contracts with each other and pay lawyers to draft them because they are generally legally binding and excellent evidence of the parties’ intent, even if they are not a 100% guarantee of the outcome of any case. The fact that one prenup got tossed was newsworthy enough to make Forbes. If it was a routine event it would not be newsworthy–like the thousands that likely got enforced that same month that did not make Forbes because it was not a newsworthy event.
By the way, in Texas, like many states that are not CA or New York, “coerced, signed under duress or signed without mental capacity,” literally requires something akin to signing a document while someone points a gun at you or holds your family hostage. Mental incapacity would require the same standard to have you committed or appointed a guardian to handle your affairs.
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Divorce negatively impacts both partners financially - but that is because in a fiscally healthy marriage both partners are better off than either will be alone, at least in the short term.
[/quote]
this is the point we are debating… marriage in westernized societies is becoming more and more of a transfer of wealth from males to females (and their new partners). [/quote]
Completely agree, and honestly very surprised you are getting called out on saying this stuff. I don’t get the “redpill” or PUA vibe from anything you posted. Seems like an objective and rational assesment of a very real phenomena.
Marriage today is basically the worst business contract a man can enter into. Misandry in society has made it so a woman can take your money and children whenever she pleases and then make keep paying for it. The fact that alimony is still a thing is pathetic as men and women are supposed to be equal so why are men expected to pay women simply because they were once married.
All that being said I do see Lanky’s point about finding “the right woman” but truth of the matter is I’m sure most guys who end up having everything taken from them thought the found “the right woman” when they got married as well. Even if you do find a woman who would never do that to you, the fact of the matter is society is now set up so she COULD if she so chose. And that is the problem or point to be debated.
The decline of the working class family
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Divorce negatively impacts both partners financially - but that is because in a fiscally healthy marriage both partners are better off than either will be alone, at least in the short term.
[/quote]
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
this is the point we are debating… marriage in westernized societies is becoming more and more of a transfer of wealth from males to females (and their new partners). [/quote]
[quote]Mtag666 wrote:
Marriage today is basically the worst business contract a man can enter into. [/quote]
It isn’t a business contract. Looking at it like a business contract is half the disconnect in this thread. If you view marriage as a business contract you should not get married, ever. Which is perfectly fine by the way.
[quote]
Misandry in society has made it so a woman can take your money and children whenever she pleases and then make keep paying for it. [/quote]
Not true, which has been pointed out.
[quote]
The fact that alimony is still a thing is pathetic as men and women are supposed to be equal so why are men expected to pay women simply because they were once married. [/quote]
Alimony has it’s place.
[quote]
All that being said I do see Lanky’s point about finding “the right woman” but truth of the matter is I’m sure most guys who end up having everything taken from them thought the found “the right woman” when they got married as well.[/quote]
Nit picking here, but I would not assume “most” guys that end up being taken to the cleaners thought they found the right women. I would say “most” marriages that end in divorce where not thought out by either party.
[quote]
Even if you do find a woman who would never do that to you, the fact of the matter is society is now set up so she COULD if she so chose. And that is the problem or point to be debated. [/quote]
The problem isn’t becoming worse though, imo, it’s equalizing now that women are better represented in the work force. It will continue to equalize as the percentage of dual income households continues to grow.
The only real issues imo is:
Children: visitation rights and how child support is utilized
You could argue choosing to get married is an issue, but I don’t see it as an issue so much as peoples own stupidity. So I guess human stupidity is the over arching issue.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Okay, I’m going to restate my views to make myself clearer.
Unless you want to have children it is not in your best interest as a man to get married. If you intend to never reproduce, it is better for you to cohabitate instead and allow yourself a clean way to break away from your partner if you become dissatisfied.
As for sexual variety/novelty that desire is ever-present in men whether they are happy with their SO or not at least to some degree. (side note: ask yourselves happily married guys, if you could bend over that cute Starbucks barista for a quick romp guilt free wouldn’t you be happier?)
[/quote]
What about business trips? What is the rule there?
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
[quote]nephorm wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I once read, as an argument against pre nuptial agreements, that the woman you’re marrying should be worth more than any future wealth you may have. I agree with that statement, and I think it’s a good question any man should ask himself before popping the question, regardless of one’s feelings about prenuptial agreements.
[/quote]
I don’t understand this argument. Most people don’t go into marriages thinking he/she is going to cheat on me, or assault me, or develop a drug habit. But in most cases you can’t really know what your future spouse is “worth” until tested by years of marriage. If you are correct that she is “worth more than any future wealth you may have,” then you don’t need a prenup. But if you erred in your assessment, that is exactly when you need one.[/quote]
Well, I didn’t say marriage was something to be taken lightly. And I don’t think most people, men or women, put as much thought into it as they should.
That doesn’t mean it’s a stupid move for everyone.
[/quote]
I’m not saying it’s a stupid move for everyone. I would have liked to have gotten married at some point, myself (thought that doesn’t speak to whether or not it would have been a stupid move for me and/or my potential wife).
I just don’t understand what “the woman you’re marrying should be worth more than any future wealth you may have” means. Does it mean that marrying her is so valuable to you that being married to her, even for a year, is worth forfeiting all future wealth, even if, for example, she develops a benign but inoperable brain tumor that radically changes her personality and makes her incapable of maintaining a monogamous relationship?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Thanks for confirming. [/quote]
you’re welcome [/quote]
"2. The agreement was coerced, signed under duress or signed without mental capacity.
Coersion or duress can be extremely difficult to prove, and, as with many aspects of divorce law, different states have different standards for what it means to have been coerced into an agreement."
Lol…
“Still, it is not unheard of for a prenup to be thrown out on this basis.”
-So basically it’s unheard of…[/quote]
I am not a lawyer, but the only example of this I have heard of is when a man springs the prenup immediately before the wedding.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
By getting married, men are also forced to muzzle their primal desire of sexual variety.
[/quote]
No, they are not forced to do anything. Marriage is voluntary in these here United States. [/quote]
he said ‘by getting married’… so it’s in the marriage context.
thanks again for your dimwitted contribution lmao[/quote]
Lol, might want to look in the mirror pal. [/quote]
nice comeback, bro.[/quote]
Walkaway and Raj, How are men forced to muzzle their primal desires for sexual variety? By getting married?? Instead of the word “forced” why not use the phrase “decided that developing a meaningful emotional attachment is worth it to them” to muzzle their primal desire to for sexual variety. I still have those urges occasionally, despite my wife being hot as hell, even with random girls I see that when compared would not hold a candle to her looks wise. I am sure my wife has the same urges, although probably not as frequently.
Thing is, I love her, I wanted to be devoted to her, I believe fully and without reservation that she will be fully devoted to me for the rest of our lives. If you cant say that then you should not marry a person. Granted shit happens people cheat, men and women, and sometimes lines get crossed that cant be returned from. But if you live life so afraid of the bad shit that you dodge the possible good, then you aren’t living, you are merely existing and are nothing more than a sad shell of a human being. [/quote]
YES.
If you’re in a happy marriage, then it really shouldn’t be that hard to resist temptation in any situation.
Does anyone know if court results vary by geographical location? Is this something that can be looked up?
Growing up a fair number of my friends - including myself - were part of divorced families, but there seemed to be little ill will and in the case that the mother had custody, the father always seemed to get the children for the weekend or school vacations etc. I wonder if the laws or rulings may vary by location, and at the very least different regions have different cultures which may influence how aggressive the parents are in court.
And an interesting anecdote about child support. I have an older sister who is actually my half-sister by blood, related through our mom. When my mom got pregnant she told the guy and he wanted nothing to do with the child and wanted her to abort. Mom refuses. My dad met my mom when my sister was a small baby, they got married and I was born.
Well, my dad is American and in the military, and my mom is German. We later move back to America. When I’m older I find out that the biological father of my sister has to apparently pay child support until she is 18, and despite us being in another country my mom had been receiving child support the whole time.
I guess we need to update that old quote: “Nothing can be said to be certain except death, taxes, and child support.”
[quote]hit the gym wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Okay, I’m going to restate my views to make myself clearer.
Unless you want to have children it is not in your best interest as a man to get married. If you intend to never reproduce, it is better for you to cohabitate instead and allow yourself a clean way to break away from your partner if you become dissatisfied.
As for sexual variety/novelty that desire is ever-present in men whether they are happy with their SO or not at least to some degree. (side note: ask yourselves happily married guys, if you could bend over that cute Starbucks barista for a quick romp guilt free wouldn’t you be happier?)
[/quote]
What about business trips? What is the rule there?[/quote]
Fair game
What if you get married and your wife is completely game and lady like and it’s all good. But she gets cancer and you spend all your money on her treatment. Is that a different risk and different judgment than if she divorced you?
[quote]comus3 wrote:
What if you get married and your wife is completely game and lady like and it’s all good. But she gets cancer and you spend all your money on her treatment. Is that a different risk and different judgment than if she divorced you?[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]comus3 wrote:
What if you get married and your wife is completely game and lady like and it’s all good. But she gets cancer and you spend all your money on her treatment. Is that a different risk and different judgment than if she divorced you?[/quote]
Yes.[/quote]
Orion serious question. Do you have a best friend? I mean a guy that you trust with your life and will help you bury the body? Guy that is going to be sitting next to you in jail after a night bar hopping?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/07/angry-divorcee-refuses-74m-check-from-billionaire-oil-tycoon/[/quote]
Insane; however, it’s just the scale of the wealth that make it seem unreasonable. That’s not even 10% of the guys worth (not sure if net worth or what) per the article.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/07/angry-divorcee-refuses-74m-check-from-billionaire-oil-tycoon/[/quote]
Insane; however, it’s just the scale of the wealth that make it seem unreasonable. That’s not even 10% of the guys worth (not sure if net worth or what) per the article. [/quote]
How much do you think she deserves?