[quote]debraD wrote:
but that’ll be the day we see a March or a protest or any kind of activism or something.
[/quote]
actually, many men are simply dropping out of the game of marriage, spending their money on themselves and their hobbies, and generally living life on their own terms.
it’s a bit of a growing subculture.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
However, as a man I also should be able to control my impulses, men who are so impulsive as to cheat are painfully immature and lack that control. Sometimes cheating is nothing more than needing your ego stroked as much as it is about sex. That’s nothing more than a man being a whiny bitch because he tied his sense of self-worth to his cock. [/quote]
I’m not advocating cheating. But why shut your options down completely if there are no kids involved? After a while you may find your sexual happiness dwindling, so why make it difficult to chase a better option if that becomes available?
I fully agree that if kids are involved you should be faithful to one another.
[/quote]
That, in a nutshell, is why people get married. It’s intended as a sincere, public declaration that you are no longer keeping your options open in case something better comes along. That’s, unfortunately not exactly how it plays out much of the time, but that is the intent.
“I love you and I choose to spend the rest of my life with you, forsaking all others, come what may” is not the same as “I’m pretty into you so I guess I’ll have sex with you and cohabit or whatever unless/until something better comes along.”
Anybody who doesn’t recognize the emotional significance of that distinction should definitely not get married, which is not a criticism, just a suggestion.
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
but that’ll be the day we see a March or a protest or any kind of activism or something.
[/quote]
actually, many men are simply dropping out of the game of marriage, spending their money on themselves and their hobbies, and generally living life on their own terms.
it’s a bit of a growing subculture.[/quote]
What a pussy approach. Whatever I guess. There’s alway been such a sub culture however and I am skeptical about the by choice part.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I suspect you are just talking out your ass anyway.
[/quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
any lawyer worth his salt can cut straight through a prenuptial agreement initiated by the man… that’s why they are paid the big bucks.
they are thrown out all the time. all the lawyers have to do is say that the wife was under ‘mental stress’ when she signed it and then poof voided. [/quote]
Thanks for confirming.
Lol, jjack aren’t you a lawyer?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
In some states cohabitation by the spouse receiving the alimony payments will not, repeat, not end the alimony payments. Trust me, I know this for a fact.
In fact, this particular woman is far better off financially right now then before she left her husband of many years. She and her new partner own homes in three or four different states, travels extensively with him and yet she continues to collect alimony payments from her ex husband.[/quote]
Do you think lifestyle issues can impact or muddy divorce settlements?[/quote]
Do you mean “lifestyle” or lifestyle?[/quote]
I suppose I mean “lifestyle.”
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
In some states cohabitation by the spouse receiving the alimony payments will not, repeat, not end the alimony payments. Trust me, I know this for a fact.
In fact, this particular woman is far better off financially right now then before she left her husband of many years. She and her new partner own homes in three or four different states, travels extensively with him and yet she continues to collect alimony payments from her ex husband.[/quote]
Do you think lifestyle issues can impact or muddy divorce settlements?[/quote]
Do you mean “lifestyle” or lifestyle?[/quote]
I suppose I mean “lifestyle.”
[/quote]
I thought you meant “life” style
Just an observation from the men I’ve seen go through it: divorce seems to be a pretty emasculating experience (it is no picnic for women and their self esteem either!). But the men I’ve seens go through it take it pretty hard and often don’t fight at all. They rollover and just oblige the wife’s lawyer with whatever demands whether they think it’s fair or not. Then a few years later when they’ve recovered from the blow, they are angry and bitter. But the reality is, they just accepted what they were given. Not everyone I’m sure, but the ones I’ve seen.
My brother was like that but my mom wouldn’t tolerate it and made sure he fought for his custody and not get soaked. He ended up fighting my mom quite a bit because he was heartbroken and just wanted to hide. And your mom telling you to grow a pair is not what any man wants. Now that it’s all over, he has the custody he was forced to fight for and its all good but it was really hard for him to stand up to the woman who was leaving him.
Another friend was sleeping in his damn car because he wouldn’t stand up to his soon to be ex and when I pushed him about it he defended his response (a not normally passive guy btw) he would say stuff about always providing for his family, so basically he wasn’t actually a part of it anymore but still going to make the sacrifice. She would not agree to sell the house and he wasn’t allowed to stay there, he was broke and basically homeless. She could have stayed at any number of places having a large family and he wouldn’t ask her to leave. He on the other hand was much more of a introvert, didn’t have a lot of buddies to lean on and his family was all over the place. He was welcome at my place but I was in another city and he wanted to stay near his kids.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Thanks for confirming. [/quote]
you’re welcome
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
but that’ll be the day we see a March or a protest or any kind of activism or something.
[/quote]
actually, many men are simply dropping out of the game of marriage, spending their money on themselves and their hobbies, and generally living life on their own terms.
it’s a bit of a growing subculture.[/quote]
What a pussy approach. Whatever I guess. There’s alway been such a sub culture however and I am skeptical about the by choice part.
[/quote]
if by ‘pussy’, you mean ‘practical’ then we are in agreement.
and yes, for the most part, these are just average guys… not basement-dwelling neckbeards.
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]Broncoandy wrote:
The reasons men get married are all pretty obvious. The real question is why do men continue to allow feminist policy to dominate in divorce court. Governments are all pussy whipped. :p[/quote]
Seriously there is so much armchair bitching from guys about this shit but that’ll be the day we see a March or a protest or any kind of activism or something.
Edit: not to sound callous or dismissive… I can see how fighting for divorce rights while not yet divorced would probably not be seen in a favourable or positive light. Hey honey, Saturday I’m going to a sit in for better divorce rights for dudes, see you at dinner!
[/quote]
The activism that happens falls under the MRA blanket. Lotta dudes don’t want to be associated with that. They fear the wrath of their feminin masters 
[quote]Aggv wrote:
I have no problem with marriage, but weddings are the most superficial thing ever invented.
[/quote]
Weddings prior to recent times were usually perfectly sensible celebrations of a major life event.
[quote]debraD wrote:
Just an observation from the men I’ve seen go through it: divorce seems to be a pretty emasculating experience (it is no picnic for women and their self esteem either!). But the men I’ve seens go through it take it pretty hard and often don’t fight at all. They rollover and just oblige the wife’s lawyer with whatever demands whether they think it’s fair or not. Then a few years later when they’ve recovered from the blow, they are angry and bitter. But the reality is, they just accepted what they were given. Not everyone I’m sure, but the ones I’ve seen.
My brother was like that but my mom wouldn’t tolerate it and made sure he fought for his custody and not get soaked. He ended up fighting my mom quite a bit because he was heartbroken and just wanted to hide. And your mom telling you to grow a pair is not what any man wants. Now that it’s all over, he has the custody he was forced to fight for and its all good but it was really hard for him to stand up to the woman who was leaving him.
Another friend was sleeping in his damn car because he wouldn’t stand up to his soon to be ex and when I pushed him about it he defended his response (a not normally passive guy btw) he would say stuff about always providing for his family, so basically he wasn’t actually a part of it anymore but still going to make the sacrifice. She would not agree to sell the house and he wasn’t allowed to stay there, he was broke and basically homeless. She could have stayed at any number of places having a large family and he wouldn’t ask her to leave. He on the other hand was much more of a introvert, didn’t have a lot of buddies to lean on and his family was all over the place. He was welcome at my place but I was in another city and he wanted to stay near his kids.[/quote]
I can’t say I know anyone who’s rolled over in court. I know a few who’ve failed the shit test that kicks it off because they’re retarded and think if they give her what she wants, or if they just give her some time / space it will all just blow over once she’s calmed down / cooled off. I also know a few who’ve gone off the deep end the other direction and thrown all her shit out on the lawn to help her on her way (My personal favorite is my buddy John who had bought his wife a new car she had asked for 3 days prior, which he promptly drove through the side of the barn in a fit of rage, yelling that she wasn’t taking his kids anywhere, and he was keeping his god dam car while she stood slack jawed on the lawn - this of course resulted in a call to the police who promptly advised him to let her take the kids, which is pretty much what they do 100% of the time, and for people who might not be used to dealing with cops tends to be taken more as an order than as a request). And a whole bunch who were removed from their homes by the police on trumpt up abuse allegations. And admittedly even a few others (a very small few) who were removed from their homes on legitimate assaults.
All of them went to court, and fought their hardest, and the only man I know who has custody of his children, the mother was so fucking terrible, they eventually (after several years) gave him his daughter AND his daughter’s YOUNGER sister (who wasn’t his, and had never lived with him before). Nowadays mom isn’t even allowed unsupervised visits.
You’re brother is fortunate, but I can assure you that he is in the minority. 90% of custody cases decided by a judge in this country are awarded to the woman.
About the only “problem” (and the fact that being reasonable, fair, and trying to do whats best for your kids is a problem should point to the fact that family court is completely fucked) I see on a regular basis is that men more frequently request shared / joint custody. It’s funny because by the letter of the law that’s actually the default. Thing is it’s really really easy for women to manipulate the court into awarding them sole custody anyways, and there are WAY too many incentives for them to do so.
2 questions about your brother if you don’t mind my asking, #1 is there something wrong with the mother, and #2 if not, do you feel he was right to deprive them of significant time with her?
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
but that’ll be the day we see a March or a protest or any kind of activism or something.
[/quote]
actually, many men are simply dropping out of the game of marriage, spending their money on themselves and their hobbies, and generally living life on their own terms.
it’s a bit of a growing subculture.[/quote]
Reminds me of this:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]red04 wrote:
You seem to be advocating a kind of harem-based society where men take many women while still expecting pair-bonding from said women. Am I reading into this correctly, or am I pairing too much of Walkaway’s thoughts with your posts?
[/quote]
nice strawman [/quote]
Well, it could’ve been one if I didn’t ask up front if I was incorrectly reading his post as piggy backing on your points of abstinence pre-marriage and faithfulness together with his own points, most notably the male ‘need’ for sexual variety. He has however cleared it up with a followup post rather than just saying ‘strawman bro.’
It should be quite clear that I am not addressing you, and am not insinuating that you advocate anything near a harem society, as you have said yourself that you believe in abstinence entering a marriage and faithfulness thereafter.
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Thanks for confirming. [/quote]
you’re welcome [/quote]
"2. The agreement was coerced, signed under duress or signed without mental capacity.
Coersion or duress can be extremely difficult to prove, and, as with many aspects of divorce law, different states have different standards for what it means to have been coerced into an agreement."
Lol…
“Still, it is not unheard of for a prenup to be thrown out on this basis.”
-So basically it’s unheard of…
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Okay, I’m going to restate my views to make myself clearer.
Unless you want to have children it is not in your best interest as a man to get married. If you intend to never reproduce, it is better for you to cohabitate instead and allow yourself a clean way to break away from your partner if you become dissatisfied. [/quote]
I’m all for all sorts of relationships. If you want an LTR, great. What I don’t understand is why you think cohabitation = a clean way to break away from your partner? If you own anything together, live together, etc… The break isn’t likely going to be clean.
Not to mention common law marriage, which we can ignore since I assume you are against that.
[quote]
As for sexual variety/novelty that desire is ever-present in men whether they are happy with their SO or not at least to some degree. [/quote]
It sure is. Just like it’s present with girlfriends too.
[quote]
(side note: ask yourselves happily married guys, if you could bend over that cute Starbucks barista for a quick romp guilt free wouldn’t you be happier?) [/quote]
Happier? Probably not.
[quote]
While this desire exists in women, in my opinion it has more to do with dissatisfaction with their current partner than a need for variety in general that it is for men. Women are more focused on extracting commitment from a quality guy. [/quote]
Any basis for this opinion? Women like sex, why else would they hook up?
[quote]
The 40 year old with the 40 year old wife will have a much stronger desire for variety than the 28 year old banging his hot 20 something wife. [/quote]
Maybe