This probably won’t be a popular opinion, but after reading you talk about how you can’t gain despite hard training and consistent eat, have you thought about maybe a new hobby? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
That is because the problem is psychological. Isn’t it obvious?
You identify yourself as being a hardgainer (something that doesn’t exist) and your username is WANNAbebig.
There is no way your brain is going to let go of that self image and nothing you do will work.
You really are an unusual case because most people with this mental problem just give up and go away and be skinny. But you persist doing all this stuff.
I am NOT in any way having a go at you. And I am not saying this is a serious problem, or that you are “mental” or anything. And in no way trivialising the problem by saying it is in your head.
But the problem IS in your head and probably nobody here can help you, except me, and I can’t be bothered.
DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWERFUL EFFECT THE BRAIN AND MIND CAN HAVE ON YOUR PROGRESS.
Your brain can override the effects of powerful drugs. Your brain can induce the effects of powerful drugs - even when on a placebo.
If your brain can do these then of course it can destroy your progress.
You really need to address this issue and I suggest an old classic “The Power of Your Subconscious Mind” by Joseph Murphy - to start out.
But don’t go on some fanatical spree through mental self help books in the same way you have run through lifting programs. Again, that neurotic behaviour is only going to make your body chemistry anti-growth.
God only knows how bad your cortisol and nervous system are.
You know I am trying to help.
But YOU are the one who is going to have to help yourself. It is not because you are broken but because you are sabotaging yourself. EVERY single one of those programs should have worked. You made them fail.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:
it upsets me when people say I aint trying - that might sound like a pussy thing to say but that’s the way it is, I’ve try so fckin hard and I’m being totally honest when I say that.
You could just have really shitty genetics. There are people who can’t grow. It’s just a basic law of human diversity. You might be at the wrong end of the bell curve.[/quote]
It is possible.
I am a bit skeptical because he is working with online trainers instead of someone that can actually push him in the gym.
He also ramped down his calories when he started gaining fat.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
That is because the problem is psychological. Isn’t it obvious?
You identify yourself as being a hardgainer (something that doesn’t exist) and your username is WANNAbebig.
There is no way your brain is going to let go of that self image and nothing you do will work.
You really are an unusual case because most people with this mental problem just give up and go away and be skinny. But you persist doing all this stuff.
I am NOT in any way having a go at you. And I am not saying this is a serious problem, or that you are “mental” or anything. And in no way trivialising the problem by saying it is in your head.
But the problem IS in your head and probably nobody here can help you, except me, and I can’t be bothered.
DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWERFUL EFFECT THE BRAIN AND MIND CAN HAVE ON YOUR PROGRESS.
Your brain can override the effects of powerful drugs. Your brain can induce the effects of powerful drugs - even when on a placebo.
If your brain can do these then of course it can destroy your progress.
You really need to address this issue and I suggest an old classic “The Power of Your Subconscious Mind” by Joseph Murphy - to start out.
But don’t go on some fanatical spree through mental self help books in the same way you have run through lifting programs. Again, that neurotic behaviour is only going to make your body chemistry anti-growth.
God only knows how bad your cortisol and nervous system are.
You know I am trying to help.
But YOU are the one who is going to have to help yourself. It is not because you are broken but because you are sabotaging yourself. EVERY single one of those programs should have worked. You made them fail.
[/quote]
I read about hardgainers and this is one man’s view and I have to agree with him.
so much comes into play and it’s all about genetics.
'There are multiple types of hardgainers IMO.
Those with shit-can genetics that are the extreme hardgainers that are truly a different species than most lifters.
There are guys that are way below average, but by doing everything perfect over the long hual, can make great progress. These guys almost always have crap work capacity and general conditioning issues.
There are functional hardgainers that simply do not respond to doing things most people can get away with and grow fine once all is in balance.
Of course there are sub-catagories. But until you have actually worked with some of these people you would just not beleive how growth/strength resistant some of them are.
We are not all created equally when in comes to lifting genetics.’
I do agree with you about the rest though - but what I’m saying is, even when everything has been fine in my head (and I have had periods of months where I’ve felt great) and I’ve been confident, focussed and determined, things havent irmpoved.
I’m going to have my cortisol levels checked so with have an idea of what is going on and if they are high then at least I know that cortisol is probably a major issue that will have to be worrked on even more.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:
it upsets me when people say I aint trying - that might sound like a pussy thing to say but that’s the way it is, I’ve try so fckin hard and I’m being totally honest when I say that.
You could just have really shitty genetics. There are people who can’t grow. It’s just a basic law of human diversity. You might be at the wrong end of the bell curve.
It is possible.
I am a bit skeptical because he is working with online trainers instead of someone that can actually push him in the gym.
He also ramped down his calories when he started gaining fat.
[/quote]
I didn’t ‘ramp’ them down, they were adjusted just enough to slow the fat gain down somewhat - I was still gaining fat but at a much slower rate.
Maybe my genetics are so bad that it might be time to give up but I’m still going to contnue for a while yet.
I still think that 1) there is something wrong that can be corrected (physically) or 2) I will have to try something really extreme as far as training goes.
Yeah but these people are HARD gainers, not NO gainers.
Even the worst hardgainer can add 2 lbs to a barbell in a week.
Even the worst of the worst can do 8 reps with a weight one week, and do 8 reps + pause and breath + 1 rep the next week.
Have you ever done the 20 rep squat program?
I think you shouldn’t care about the fat. You ARE going to get fat if you bulk. Chances are you have starved for so long, your fat cells are primed to fill up any chance they get, initial fat gain should be rapid, but then it will stop and you will gain muscle (more than fat).
But stopping just because there is some fat, I mean, did you think you could make ANY gains by cutting the calories back again??? If you were not gaining when eating more, eating less isn’t going to work.
I think your real problem is that you are someone who is going to have to eat a tonne of food and gain a tonne of fat to gain 1/4 tonne of muscle. Then you will have to diet down.
I would love it if you find something that works for you and post your progress, that would be a fantastic story I think.
I still say doing 20 rep squats and drinking 4 litres of milk a day is your answer.
I don’t think you realise that by sayingyou cannot gain, you are saying your body won’t synthesise protein - which means you are wasting away and dying because you HAVE to be doing that.
If you starting bulking you are going to experience weeks of no apparent muscle gain as your body sorts things out, and you will gain fat. You might need to gain 20-40 pounds of fat. If you shy away from 5 pounds then you got no hope.
good luck, see you again in a year
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I am a bit skeptical because he is working with online trainers instead of someone that can actually push him in the gym.
[/quote]
Who is this “online trainer”?
Can you post your woukout?
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
Yeah but these people are HARD gainers, not NO gainers.
Even the worst hardgainer can add 2 lbs to a barbell in a week.
Even the worst of the worst can do 8 reps with a weight one week, and do 8 reps + pause and breath + 1 rep the next week.
Have you ever done the 20 rep squat program?
I think you shouldn’t care about the fat. You ARE going to get fat if you bulk. Chances are you have starved for so long, your fat cells are primed to fill up any chance they get, initial fat gain should be rapid, but then it will stop and you will gain muscle (more than fat).
But stopping just because there is some fat, I mean, did you think you could make ANY gains by cutting the calories back again??? If you were not gaining when eating more, eating less isn’t going to work.
I think your real problem is that you are someone who is going to have to eat a tonne of food and gain a tonne of fat to gain 1/4 tonne of muscle. Then you will have to diet down.
I would love it if you find something that works for you and post your progress, that would be a fantastic story I think.
I still say doing 20 rep squats and drinking 4 litres of milk a day is your answer.
I don’t think you realise that by sayingyou cannot gain, you are saying your body won’t synthesise protein - which means you are wasting away and dying because you HAVE to be doing that.
If you starting bulking you are going to experience weeks of no apparent muscle gain as your body sorts things out, and you will gain fat. You might need to gain 20-40 pounds of fat. If you shy away from 5 pounds then you got no hope.
good luck, see you again in a year
[/quote]
I think you may have missed my previous post?
[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
I think you may have missed my previous post?
[/quote]
no, I read it.
[quote]Magarhe wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:
I think you may have missed my previous post?
no, I read it. [/quote]
well why did I get advised to drop the cals?
If I’m gaining fat, I don’t see the logic in eating even more??
You are already being advised well here so I’ll be brief. I wish I could talk to you face to face so you could see that I DO NOT mean this as an insult or put down, but I don’t believe you know or any of the trainers you’ve consulted know what serious work looks or feels like. I believe you believe you’re working hard and your persistence says something for your character, but unless you are one of the guys C-law mentioned who are genetically unable grow significantly, and they are VERY rare, you are not providing the stimulus necessary for growth as Sentoguy has said.
Another thing, if you gain some fat along the way that’s the way it goes. Don’t mistake the fact that you soften up some with being ipso facto proof that you’re eating too much.
Wannabebig, please post exactly what you are eating and how you are training.
We will be able to help you more with specifics.
What people are saying about fat gain possibly having to be a necessity is probable. A lot of guys, myself included, tend to gain a good deal of fat during the first part of a gaining phase, that however, tapers off after time.
Post what you are doing for us and we can help you more than we are able to now.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You are already being advised well here so I’ll be brief. I wish I could talk to you face to face so you could see that I DO NOT mean this as an insult or put down, but I don’t believe you know or any of the trainers you’ve consulted know what serious work looks or feels like.
I believe you believe you’re working hard and your persistence says something for your character, but unless you are one of the guys C-law mentioned who are genetically unable grow significantly, and they are VERY rare, you are not providing the stimulus necessary for growth as Sentoguy has said.
Another thing, if you gain some fat along the way that’s the way it goes. Don’t mistake the fact that you soften up some with being ipso facto proof that you’re eating too much.[/quote]
fair enough, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it.
but believe me mate, I do know what hard work is.
I’ve been there and done that on a few boards - I’ve had my diet looked at by a pro bodybuilding nutritionist and we worked togther for a few weeks.
I’m convinced that it isn’t diet or training related (the norm desnt appear to work) and I honestly believe that my training needs to go down a really extreme route.
[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
<<< fair enough, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it.
but believe me mate, I do know what hard work is.
[/quote]
Here are the choices before us.
1- You are providing adequate stimulus through resistance training, eating enough food and getting enough rest, but are innately unable to synthesize new muscle tissue.
2- One or any combination of the above is lacking in a fairly severe fashion.
There are no other options.
It’s not impossible, but you would be the very first person, I’m betting, most people here have any personal knowledge of who would truly fit the first possibility. From a non pathological standpoint that is.
There are diseases and physiological disorders that could account for an inability to make substantial progress, but you would most likely know about that by know. Or I would think at least, have some other symptoms
[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
I’ve been there and done that on a few boards - I’ve had my diet looked at by a pro bodybuilding nutritionist and we worked togther for a few weeks.
I’m convinced that it isn’t diet or training related and I honestly believe that my training needs to go down a really extreme route.[/quote]
I think somebody went this way already, but try some HIT techniques. That would still fall into category number one BTW =]
You would need a partner for a lot of that type of stuff and things like negative only squats or benches can be a quick ambulance ride or worse if both of you don’t know what you’re doing. HS machines are great for HIT. Whatever works.
Maybe some post failure shock and awe work would be the ticket to get you moving. Try out some of Dr. Darden’s stuff. Some will laugh, but if it works like it has for others in your position who cares.
I get the impression your heart is in this and that’s the toughest part.
[quote]wannbeBIG wrote:
I’ve been there and done that on a few boards - I’ve had my diet looked at by a pro bodybuilding nutritionist and we worked togther for a few weeks.
I’m convinced that it isn’t diet or training related (the norm desnt appear to work) and I honestly believe that my training needs to go down a really extreme route.
[/quote]
What can you loose if you try it here too?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
wannbeBIG wrote:
<<< fair enough, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it.
but believe me mate, I do know what hard work is.
Here are the choices before us.
1- You are providing adequate stimulus through resistance training, eating enough food and getting enough rest, but are innately unable to synthesize new muscle tissue.
2- One or any combination of the above is lacking in a fairly severe fashion.
There are no other options.
It’s not impossible, but you would be the very first person, I’m betting, most people here have any personal knowledge of who would truly fit the first possibility. From a non pathological standpoint that is.
There are diseases and physiological disorders that could account for an inability to make substantial progress, but you would most likely know about that by know. Or I would think at least, have some other symptoms[/quote]
When it comes to eating, I do eat every 2.5-3 hours, but (as I’ve said before) I seem to gain a lot of fat on a low calorie diet.
Training wise I’m only training twice a week BUT this routine is quite new, I’ve only been on it a month, and I’m on a slow cut at the moment so I won’t see any new muscle until the cut finishes and I’m on above maintainence calories; but that could be a while yet - I have about 20lbs to lose, so it could be about 20 weeks.
Find another hobby. This is sounding more like an obsession. Do something youre good at, and might actually enjoy.